College of nautical knowledge?

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Tom

Whats scary is that some people don't even know

the basics! You can own and operate a boat with out even knowing the way to go when appoaching a red nun or a green can !?! Whats wrong with this picture!?! Like someone said previuosly, you don't need anything but a credit line...Most people would know better, but maybe you should at least ensure the absolute minimun knowledge to at least get out on the water. Maybe it will weed out at least a few of the "fools". Some states (e.g. Conn) already have this requirement.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,314
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Just one of a zillion references

It would be very helpful if those errant boaters we have all encountered would learn to read (and maybe remember). There are SO many resources available, without any gov't interference. Try the link.
 
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Tom

Uh...Bob from Salem

Your #2" banking industry had a mega-billion fallout few years ago" That was caused by DE-regulation of the banking industry by the Reagan administration in the 80's and WE ALL had to pay. I guess the point is we need more or stricter enforcement of the so called "Fools" and "Idiots" that take advantage of situations....
 
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Tom

Dave from Westbrooke CT

That person in the motorboat looking for directions was from LI. Thats NY. They don't have a mandatory education program like CT. No wonder he didn't know what he was doing. I have found boaters from CT to be of a *much* higher caliber than those from NY. I don't know if that has anything to do with the education or just something else. (of course this is not to suggest all NY boaters, just that they seem to have a few more of the "fools")
 
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Bryan

Won't necessarily work

Though testing never makes sure that someone will follow the rules of the water but something should be done to regulate the responsibility that comes with owning a water craft. People need to research and learn when going into something they have never done, especially when it can and could injure or even kill someone and that is not teachable. How about patroling the harbors and handing out idiot tickets
 
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Tom

Licensing - NO --- Mandatory education - Maybe

I am the first to confess that I wouldn't be thrilled to be forced to be licensed. I have been boating for a long time and believe myself to be fairly competent. And as has been said, it basically just becomes a huge bureaucracy & another revenue stream. But I am not against mandatory education. It would eliminate the bureaucracy but still mandate on water competance. It would work this way. In your state, every boater is expected to have some Minimum Boater Education (USGC Aux, Red Cross, etc or equivalent). No body has to file it with the state to operate a boat. BUT, if the authorities see you doing something stupid on the water, then they are allowed to check your "Minimum Boater Education" certificate. If you don't have one then you are "screwed" and heavy penalties and fines imposed. (And I mean HEAVY.. mandatory Minimum fine $500 first offense....no plea barganing ). This would eliminate the states up front revenue stream and bureaucracy, but insure that anyone on the water, has at least the bare minimum training, which as everone knows here is inexpensive and readily available to anyone with a few hours instruction. I would allow "grandfather" clauses which allowed for people that could prove they had over 10 years boat ownership, or something similar.
 
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Mike Husted

Some just don't get it!

More regulations? I'm not so sure that would help. I'm glad they have the new testing regs out for the younger skippers, but this past summer there were many "older and wiser" skippers who looked as if they didn't know the regs. I'm not sure what the answer is. People,in general,in society today seemed to have forgotten the golden rule. As in driving your car, maybe we should continue to sail defensively. I was almost swamped on 3 seperate occasions this summer and almost collided with 2 other 'captains' when under sail and having the right of way. I don't believe it was that they didn't know the regulations, as much as it was they didn't care. As they sped by, they just kept on looking forward or entertaining their guests. I don't think that more and more regulations would change that type of person.
 
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Jay Hill

How Regulations Help

Wow, what a wonderful variety of input. For those that don't know me, I'm a charter (rental) boat company and sailing school owner. I provide rental and charter boats, both power and sail, along with a wide variety of training for both power and sail; everything from "the pointy end is the bow" to "that star is Regulus" and "Yes, that's a 40-foot wave!" In my experience I have found that even the slightest bit of education helps a great deal when it comes to boating. No, it is not possible to teach everything about boating in a brief course, but at least it introduces persons to the information that is necessary to safely operate and pilot a vessel. Our school has found the value of multiple programs and offers as many different curriculums as possible. For example, we work closely with the US Power and Sail Squadrons all over the state, the USCG Auxilary, USCG, Texas Parks and Wildlife Department, County Sherriff's Department, and Local Police. We also offer the ASA and US Sailing Keelboat Certification Programs and the US Sailing Powerboat Certification Program. Through all of these programs, we have proudly helped over 5000 people become safer boaters. The state is helping out, too. Although we are trying to lobby for tougher laws, more enforcement, and even a Boater's Licensing requirement, the legislature moves slowly and wants justification as to why the state should take on such a huge burden. Here's what they asked the public (boating professionals) to do: 1) Prove that training actually does something 2) Submit a plan that will allow the state to provide a thorough licensing program without a burden to taxpayers 3) Submit a plan for enforcement. Here's what we did: 1) Worked with NASBLA (National Association of Safe Boating Law Administrators) to get the national standard for safe boating up to speed. (It now contains the USCG minimum requirements for safety afloat.) 2) Developed the state's Boater Education program into a volunteer instructor program. In the last five years we've gone from 2,237 boater's education certificates per year to 23,587 so far this year. We proved that boater education saves lives with the following data: In 1998, Texas had 187 persons killed in 2,891 boating accidents, so far in 2002, there have been only 48 killed in 437 accidents. Each year we see a reduction. 3) We worked with the law enforcement agencies and were able to get "boating violations" placed onto "Driver's License". They have also added two aspects to tickets: a) Instead of just a ticket for, say, "no PFDs" ($29 fine), they make the ticket for "no PFDs and Negligent Operation!" ($486 fine and Boater Education Class Mandatory) This alone has really put a damper on the foolish acts (translates to: less alcohol consumption.) b)DUIs on the water lead to immediate vessel confiscation and you go directly to jail pending bond hearing. 4) We have found that an endorsement to a Driver's License can be just as effective as a new license, so we have submitted a program to the state outlining the program that will allow boater's to get an endorsement on their Driver's License after taking a test and providing proof of compentency on the water. The program is very similar to the USCG Licensing that allows APPROVED SCHOOLS to provide the training, and perform the on-the-water testing so the government does not have to deal with it. We have submitted that many accredited schools and certification programs that are already certified by NASBLA could perform these on-the-water certification procedures. Legislation is close to approving the whole thing. It's cheap, requires only that the state add another "endorsement" to the already-existing Driver's License program, and places all of the cost burden on the boater. (Average fees for the one-time training and on-the-water compentency check will be around $250 per person. Very little compared to the cost of boats and accidents. We haven't quite gotten the follow-up program developed yet; the USCG requires relicensing every five years. We're working on that one.) 5)We worked with the state to allow collaboration of enforcement efforts. Previously, inland waters could only be patrolled by the Game Warden (1-5 per county) or one other designated agency. Now, any body of water can be jointly patrolled by any law enforcement agency that has jurisdiction on land bordering the waters and each agency's jurisdiction exists over all the water. For example, Lake Texoma is on the border of Texas and Oklahoma and has 89,000 acres of water surface and 580 miles of shoreline. This body of water used to be patrolled by ONE USCG Active Duty Officer whose office was 90 miles away in Dallas. Now, both OK and TX Game Wardens, Sherriffs, and Police patrol the lake; that's 22 counties and 60+ communities working together to patrol the area. It works a lot better and accidents have been reduced to less than a dozen per year. (There are 17,000 boats in permanent slips on the lake.) 6) We have lobbied insurance companies to provide discounts to holders of a boater's education certificate from the state, USCG Aux, or US Power and Sail Squadron. Currently, we know of 11 companies that are participating. In reading the previous replies, I noticed lots of folks saying they don't want the regulations to exist. I would like to submit that all 50 states have boating laws. All 50 states have slightly different boating laws, true, but they all have them. The hard part is enforcing them; we simply don't have enough law enforcement personnel to help out. Rhode Island is currently the leader in Boating Legislation as they have a full-scale licensing requirement. CT, MI, and VA tie at second with education requirements. All other states have some basic requirements for persons under 18 riding PWCs, but that's about it. Almost all states do have a state-sponsored boater educaton program. I would strongly encourage everyone to get more involved in boating safety, support your state's program, and take some classes. Yes, you'll run across some instructors out there that have their own way of doing something or will recommend against a law. Just remember, if you get into court, the judge couldn't care less what your Instructor had to say, what counts is the law; so, make sure your instructor is part of an approved program not just "some guy that can teach you something". If your instructor does say something that doesn't seem right, look it up in the book yourself and go with that or call your state's department for clarification. Will there always be idiots that just can't follow the rules, ignore everyone else, and play the fool? Yes. Will there always be those that place blame on everyone but themselves? Yes. Will there always be those that consider regulations as violations of personal freedom? Yes. Will there always be those that consider regulations as guidance and protective tools? Yes. Will there always be those that are simply and unfortunately ignorant of the rules? Yes. (Stupidity cannot be fixed, ignorance can!) Wouldn't you feel better if you knew that the guy on the other boat was required to know the rules? What if the guy on the other boat knows exactly as much as you do? Is that a good thing or bad? Thanks for your patience!
 
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Don Alexander

Depressing

I have never read a more depressing item on this site than that just posted by Jay Hill. These guys get completely immersed in the business of teaching that they overlook the fundamentals of adventure and pleasure which is why we sail. Also why try to stop folk doing themselves harm? There is plenty of legislation to stop them doing harm to others. Sorry Jay - I know you mean well but training should be voluntary. I think kids should not be allowed in a swimming pool until they can swim!!
 
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Julia

I have been Lic. in Germany

When I lived in Germany one had to earn a lic. to sail. At first I thought it was just the German thing to be over organized. But, now that I am in the states and sail on a crowded lake there are times I think that there should be a written and practical test for a boating permit. Some of the behavior I see is ignorance that can be cured. Some of the behavior is criminal,that can be regulated. The end goal should be safe and curtious operation of a vessel. I knew I couldn't screw up in Germany or the Polizi were going to write me up and collect the fine right then and there. If you were drunk you went to jail and your boat was impounded. When the situatio gets crowed there will have to be more controls.
 
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Vincenzo Gagliardi

Basic sound regulation improvesconscentiousness

A serious process of licensing,for instance mandatory for vessels over 30 Feet, will be a possible improvement. A regular process of inspection every four year and after any accident reported to insurer that can effects the most important part of the vessel
 
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Scott

Even More Depressing

Don, Yes, there are regulations regarding people hurting others, but we all end up paying via insurance costs, etc. for the idiot that hurts himself. Training should be voluntary if you plan on sailing in your pond in the back yard, but if you are anywhere around other people, their safety is as much your responsibility as your own. In a civilized society, part of freedom is the freedom of not having to worry that the other schmuck is going to kill you because he is ignorant. Maybe requiring licensing, the training that would precede it and the insurance that would be required to get a registration will increase the cost of owning and operating a boat, but I would like to see that additional money be applied to more enforcement presence! Yes, there are regulations that are supposed to protect me from other people's stupid actions, but if there are no enforcement agents to make them think about what they are doing, why should they worry about it? The only ones that are going to get hurt are me and maybe them, and you are already assuming their degree of self guilt, so really, the only one who has to worry about them is me. Is that the "adventure" part or the "pleasure"?
 
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Paul K

A little more lost to bigger government

Each and every time we allow big government to regulate and control our activities we lose a little more of our precious freedoms. We have enough existing laws already on the books, the problem is one of enforcement. If the special interest lobbies would get interested in boating safety I am sure that the necessary funding would be found to address this issue. Since the COLREGS ultimate goal is to avoid colisions at all costs, then the responsibility most certainly lies with the boater with the most knowledge. I have belonged to an all volenteer sailing organization and have taught basic sailing courses since 1978. Unlike Jay we did not profit from our efforts and yet have turned out many "educated" boaters. The most important factor in the education of boaters is the availability of shortend courses and cost. Address those problems and we will all be safer on the water.
 
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Lysle Seelig

The Responsible vs the Irresponsible...

That's what it seems to boil down to, to me. I have read the replies to this question and through it all one thing seems to ring clear. You have those people who "take" responsibility and those who want someone else to "be" responsible. You see it everyday in almost every aspect of life. I doesn't matter what you do, if you have an advocate who is clever enough to convince a group of people that you should not be held responsible for your actions you don't have to pay the consequences. Unfortunately, that has become the rule of the day. "It's not my/their fault" or "someone or something else is to blame." You hear of it or see it almost every day. We have brought this on ourselves in the things we have, as a society, accepted as normal or "the norm." 150 years ago the norm was, if you stole a horse, you were probably going to die if you got caught. Horse theft was not a common practice and usually, if committed once, was not committed a second time. ;^) Today’s norm, if you kill someone because you drove your car or boat in a drunken stupor the person who served/sold you the drinks is the one at fault. (Just like Colt or Smith & Wesson etc... should be held responsible for the death of anyone who is shot.) Regulations, licensing et al will do nothing to change this. Those who care and accept responsibility are the same ones who make sure they acquire the knowledge to keep themselves and those in their care safe as possible. Regulations licensing etc... won't change that either. JMHO Lysle
 
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Safe Sailor

Even if safe boating courses were free..

Even if safe boating courses were free, they will not be attended unless they are required for licensing. I can’t accept that the paranoiac worry of "big government" can justify the ignorance (and/or irresponsibility) that jeopardize the safety of all in the water. But what can we expect in a place where people can still keep buying and using guns without any licensing or instruction required? I bet that a few more DC snipers will have to terrorize our population before guns are regulated in the US. Yes, regulation will not eliminate criminal behavior, but at least it will remove ignorance as the cause of accidents and may serve as a deterrent to most by making it easier to track the offenders. There are excellent and cheap safe boating courses given by the US Sail and Power Squadron that in Mass are required for under-aged kids licensing. I can see that, as radical gun owners, many stubborn old seamen will be reluctant to taking courses for getting a license. Maybe a good transitional solution could be to require a license for anybody born after, say, 1985 or 1990. In this way, at least our grand sons may have to chance to sail without the fear of being rammed by an ignorant irresponsible in the water.
 
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Jim S

To the anti regulation

First things first: You are not a cowboy (or an indian). More than likely most of the following is true: someone else cooks for you, cleans up your house for you, sews your clothes, manufactures items, provides communicatiion & transportation infrastructure, fixes items that become defective in your ownership, etc., etc. You could NOT exist in the manner you've chosen without the expertise, labor and cooperation of other humans. In an unbelievably short period in human history, we have progressed from spending the days hunting and foraging for food and hoping to survive until the big yellow thing rose again to light our efforts, to where we are today. This progress is the absolute result of cooperation between humans and establishment of cultural norms that benefitted the community while collectively defining boundaries for individuals. Presumably the very first rugged individualist riled at radical intrusive government proposals like: If I give birth to a child, you aren't allowed to eat it. As for you self proclaimed swashbucklers who long for the days when men went willy nilly about the planet living only by their personal codes of conduct, I can only snicker at your delusion. I'll be walking my kids over to the sweat shop on my way in to my twelve hour shift at the mill this saturday. Wait a second I just remembered, all those wealthy industrialists decided they no longer wanted extra profits from child labor or 72 hour work weeks. Such a coincidence. All those deadly, bloody fights and those unecessary intrusive government regulations, at exactly the same time the industrialists realized they didn't want those bigger profits. Please thank their hard working grandkids for your weekend, send your donations of grattitude to their modest homes along the oceans and lakes you make long treks to. But I digress.... boat out for the season, elections... pontificating about politics! No No Aww..forget it crack a cold one.
 
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steven f.

if only...

If the driver of every car had to go through as much training as your basic USCG OUPV operator had to, the streets would be filled with very knowledgable drivers. Just a thought. I hate to admit it but the government has a way of screwing up a good dream so I'm inclinded to say "keep out", you've already screwed up enough, just look at Congress....
 
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Ron/KA5HZV

What I Don't Want to lose.....

I don't want to lose my wife, my son, my sight, my hearing or my ability to walk because you don't know how to drive YOUR boat. And big government is a cop out. If, God forbid, your wife or daughter was kidnapped who would you call... your local police dept or the FBI??? And look at the bright side; if they started testing there'd be a whole lot more room out on the bay because from what I've seen there aren't too many people out there who know the diffence between a running light and a steaming light..... Bring on the test... if I can't pass it I shouldn't be endangering other people's property or lives! Ron/KA5HZV
 
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Ray MacStay

A base line of skills

I do support the idea of people having to show some minimum of ability before they drive a car, fly a plane, or yes operate a boat. All of these activities are done in a public space. Not just in thier driveway, over their pasture, or in the backyard pond. I have monitered channel 16 and heard people ask the Coast Guard if it is safe to turn their boat around in 4' following seas. Another call was from someone who said they didn't know how to navigate, the fog was in, and thier boat was next to a yellow bouy, with no other markings on it. They asked the CG where are we. The coastie monitering the radio replied, "your next to a yellow bouy and you better stay there." Will people still do foolish things? Yes. Will a license reduce the number of foolish things done because of a lack of basic knowledge and skills? Yes! If you believe that you are a competent, knowledgeable boater, then there is no threat to you from having to prove that you are competent.
 
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Earl Ingram

Need change

Licensing......boat inspections.......BULL ! ! ! ! ! All the tests and inspections in the world aren't worth two cents if the laws aren't enforced. We have enough regulations now. Look at the highways. We have drivers licenses and motor vehicle inspection programs and still have unsafe cars and crazy.....NO ! STUPED drivers. If it weren't for strong law enforcement, things would be a lot worst on the highways. The same is true on the water. We need to enforce the laws and rules we have now not new ones. All of us have seen what goes on on the water. How many times have we follewed a trail on empty beer cans back to the dock to find some TOAD too drunk to drive loading his boat on the trailer. Or how about the guy with the boat that should be named the "SINK EASY" because it is in such bad shape. I'd be willing to bet that he drives a car or truck with three layers of cord showing on his tires and the exhaust pipes held on with bailing wire. My point is that all the regulations we have don't stop dangerous operation of land vahicles on the road. What makes anyone thing it will on the water? Think about it the next time you see that police officer (who risks his neck for us everytime he puts on his uniform) pulling over that drunk with the slick tires towing the "SINK EASY" home on Sunday night after a "FUN" weekend on the water. ENFORCE THE LAWS WE HAVE NOW AND FORGET ABOUT NEW ONES ! ! ! !
 
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