College of nautical knowledge?

[the Pirate of Sha-lin]

MORE Gov't in my face?

I would like to see more boaters know more about boating. However, as a strong advocate of small government, I don't want the government involved. The Coast Guard Auxillary, the United States Power Squadrons, and individual boating clubs all offer classes in boating, navigation, safety, and other issues in boating. The thing that really needs doing is to encourage more boaters-experienced and inexperienced- to take advantage of these opportunities. But MORE government involvement? H--- NO!

 

[Bob E]

If regulation and license were the answer . . . ?

If regulation and license were the answer, then lets examine the most widely US Government controlled industries and the effects on our USA economy:1) Automobile accidents at account for a more deaths to USA residents than ALL the wars the USA has ever bee involved in.2) The banking industry had a mega-billion fallout few years ago.3) The Public Traded companies, very highly regulated through taxation, licensing, SEC scrutiny is still going through some of the biggest boondoggle scandals ever in the history of the U SA .. there's more .In my humble opinion, people need to be held responsible for their actions (not the boat builder, not the bar tender who serves drinks, not the wharf owner) .. the skipper at the helm of his vessel.However, unfortunately, in a litigious society, many courts are holding 3rd parties responsible and alleviating the "guilty" parties of blame.Just my opinion, Bob

 

[Stu Jackson]

There's Education and then there's Reading

Education does not always have to be in a classroom with instructors.Many questions on this very 'site have been asked and aswered thousands of times, and a little reading by the questioner would provide the answer. Of course, having this forum is "easier" than having to buy and read Dutton's, Calder, etc.Just remember, the folks who would be running the licensing are the some "bright lights" that run your DMVs (Dept. of Motor Vehicles) and "security" (ha, ha) at the airports.Ever have your 85 year old grandmother searched before she got on a plane to visit you?Ever stand in line at DMV?Very helpful, those folks, aren't they?Who needs more?Read, read some more, go out and participate. We even took lessons on our own first boat with an instructor on board with us. Now THERE was a practical way to learn. Gave us greater confidence in both ourslves and the boat.Can't legislate that, can ya?There'll always be a**holes.

 

[No Doz]

Check the Results So Far

If you do, it appears that the Hunter and bBeneteau owners seem to think they need more supervision!!! O'Day and Catalina owners seem to prefer leaving it the way it is.Bizzare.Don't forget to VOTE (on this and next Tuesday!)

 

[Dave Johndrow]

CT has Licensing pgm

and it does not do squat. I agree that it no more than a tax because it's not enforced and does not keep the weekend warriors at the dock. Last month I was mking a run from Greenport NY to my home port of westbrook CT when a power boat pulled up next us totally lost. Visability was about 1/2 mile with haze and he asked us how to get to LI. OK, were in LI sound I told him to head south but he didn't have a compass or a chart. A man in need of a darwin award. More regulation is not the answer

 

[AHHooker]

Stupidity can be liscenced

The essence of safe boating is common sense, which will not come from a license. I do agree that some sort of boating safety course should be mandatory for the majority of boaters, especially new boat owners. However I do not feel that licensing will do any more than allow government intrusion into our "get away" time on the boat. With a license, many people will still drink and boat, disregard the rules of the road, and continue to behave as the same idiots on the water before they sobered up to take the test.

 

[R.W.Landau]

Licensing, does not need to be gov. testing

In PA. a personal watercraft license must be obtained to operate one. The coarses are given by the Power Squadron and the Coast Guard Aux.There should be another question to this nautical college quiz, Have you taken coarses in boating? I think you would find that the people opposed to licensing have also not been educated in boat operation.Unfortunately, I think some of the sailors here want to be loose canons that can do what they want with no accountability to others. FREEDOM STARTS WITH RESPECT FOR OTHER PEOPLES FREEDOM. If someone buys a boat and excersizes his freedoms across my bow he has imposed on my freedoms. True, Many of you are experenced and educated sailor/boaters. On the lake that I sail on, most of the boat owners are not a problem. Some are more experienced than others . It is the boat rentals that are the major violators. Since it is a State lake, the rental is operated by the highest bidder . That bidder pays the State to operate their business. There is only one business of any given type allowed to operate at this State Lake. Our Boating Commission doen't pay to much attention to the rentals unless there is alcohol abuse. The Leasee is instructed to stay away from shore, that sailboats have the right-of-way, here is the throttle, ready , go.The max horsepower on the lake is 18hp. Up until last year it was 10 Hp. There are approx. 400 boat owned by individuals. There are about 100 rentals.With that ratio you learn to be defensive. If there were licensing, the rental would be non-profit but our lake would be much safer.I don't think this is a matter of licenses, allowing the Gov to be in our pocket as much as it is what will it take to make Boating safe.I think that groups like the Coast Guard Aux. and The Power Squadron have proven themselves over the years in educating boaters. If the Gov. accepted these coarses, licensing is a matter of a certificate from one of these agencys.The government would only have to add a law that says the operator must have a certificate from one of these agencys.Simple, Inexpensive and if you want to operate a boat, what is wrong with a few hours of classes?I would perfer sailing with educated people. I don't like dodging free spirits that can hurt me. In fact, I have no problem because I have learned defensive sailing. It is the inexperienced that will be the victims.Yes we are are brothers keepers. Our country lives by this. We have traffic laws, not to punish the good drivers but to correct the bad ones. Our laws are to protect the good from the bad and to punish the bad.Again, the laws are on the books. If our enforcement agencies enforsed the laws, we would have people seeking knowledge about the law and educating themselves so as not to get cited again. r.w.landau

 

[Brian Blevins/sv Sindarin]

MY OPINION

I want to step up on my soapbox and put in my 2 cents worth.To most of us boating is an excape mechanism from everyday life.I really dont want to add to the problem with more rules.Rules and regulations on the water are broken so often in this area that on any Sunday you can sit on the dock and count them all day long and not get bored.You dont see enough law enforcement doing their job now what will happen if you give them more responsibility??Now I think that boat operators should have at least basic knowelege of their boat and some emergancy situation training as well as basic rules and common courtesy.This could be done very easily with a test at the time of registration of vessel to the new owner.No test,no registration.At least the basic knowelege will have been made more than available and knowelege of boaing courses and classes for everyone will be distributed at this time as well.As for boat safety checks,here in Daytona ,we get enough "random" checks to last a lifetime(maybe we look a litle shady?????)Insurance cuts for boater safety course?If thats what it takes to educate idiocy to make boating better...something wrong there too,but thats another soapbox.

 

[Steve LeBlanc]

CONK

I do believe that each boater should take a boating safety class. It does not mean that they are going to learn or remember most of what they read, but it would hopefully get them to realize that there are some things that should not be done. Unlike a car, boats do not have brakes, so we all rely on each and every boater to follow the rules. I have watched other boaters attempt to go between a boat towing another boat, flags up, everything, complete stupidity: Crossing in front of you when you expect them to go behind and in a sail boat getting out of the way is not that easy.What I would not want to see is an over regulated where the politician gets rich system, but a basic boating course which you can take at a low cost through the Coast Guard Aux or some other boating forum.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Sails Came Before Cars

So many comments have included comments about boats not having brakes.Sailboats were around away before automobiles.Seems like people had to learn to brake in cars AFTR they knew how to stop a boat.

 

[Ghery Pettit]

I've got a wallet full of paper...

Let's see... I've got a drivers license that says that I passed a "written" (actually, on a computer screen) exam, so I'm legal to drive a car. Yet, we kill 40,000 people a year on the roads. Licensing made that safe, didn't it? I've got a certificate (it ISN'T a license) from the Department of Transportation that allows me to fly airplanes (single engine, land) as long as I do so with some regularity and see a doctor every two years. People still commit some of the most basic boneheaded blunders in aviation like run out of gas and land someplace other than where they intended. I hope to avoid such stunts. I learned to sail on lakes in northern Idaho when I was growing up in the 1960s. When I took to sailing on San Francisco Bay a bit over 10 years ago I stopped and read some books to learn more details about the sport. It's a bit more complicated when you have to deal with tides and navigational aids and lots more boats than when there are one or two of you on the lake. Now that I sail on Puget Sound, I still have to watch the rules (and hope the power boaters do too) to make sure that I don't do something stupid and hurt myself or others. Would a license from the DMV of the state of Washington make a difference. Not to me. It would just be another tax to pay. And we pay plenty of those already. I vote NO! to mandatory licensing of small boat operators. People who will do an activity safely will do so without the government guiding their every step. The rest will do what they please either way. Bust them when they break the law (the Olympia Police Department runs a boat on Budd Inlet and they do a fairly good job of controlling the few idiots that we have around here), but leave the rest of us alone. I was in New Zealand last month and you know what? You don't even have to pay for a license for the boat if it isn't used commercially. I like that approach. As the skipper of the boat we were sailing on remarked, it's about the only thing that isn't taxed in that country. BTW, Auckland harbor is beautiful and it was neat seeing the America's Cup syndicates up close.Ghery PettitHunter 23.5, Cougar Pride

 

[Christine Barber]

a little education never hurts...

yeah, yeah, yeah...I know...the government wants it's hand in everything, but ever consider that there may just be a reason?? To live, work, and play in a communal atmosphere, there must be a plan that suits the whole. Ever been awakened on your boat by some drunk trying to drop anchor 6 feet from your boat, and, after 11 noisy, rocky attempts, discovers that it isn't going to work, and then peels out leaving a 6 foot wake behind him?? Then, after getting whatever sleep time is left, awaken to find that the fool has run aground on the rocks and has absolutely no idea what to do now but to YELL for help?? And, in your attempt to help this ignoramus, discover that he has no dock lines, radio, flare gun, lifejackets or rings anywhere in sight. He can't get himself out of his situation, but he can offer you a beer! Dumb ass! This man has absolutely no boating skills whatsoever. Most of these situations could have been prevented with boating education. After all, it IS a moving vehicle, and rules are applied for the safety of the majority. It should not be a free-for-all out here. I believe that people who are opposed to education (and licensing validates education)are usually uneducated, ignorant people to begin with!

 

[Christine Barber]

It's nice that you're so bitchen

It's nice that you're so bitchen, and have been so many places and done so many things and have so much experience, but unfortunately, that doesn't apply to the majority of boaters. The majority of boaters have nowhere else other than boating classes (easy to obtain thru the coastguard and colleges) to obtain their skills. I do not think that it will hurt me one bit to be licensed, if it will ensure that everyone out there will have the same baseline skills as me. Licensing simply states competency. And you are right...not every one will obey the rules and accidents will happen. But can you imagine just what would happen in your "auto licensing" senario if no one were licensed?? Which way would you drive on the road, and who would stop first at an intersection?? I can only guess by reading what you have to say that it would not be you that would stop! The accidents would be tenfold. You are not the only one on the sea, and your "it's all about me" mentality causes rats to eat each other in crowded situations. I have been a paramedic most of my life, and MY experience has shown me that educated, communal minded people live alot longer. Yes, Ghery, I too have a wallet full of licenses and certificates. None of them have hurt me abit.

 

[Christine Barber]

Stupidity can be liscenced (licensed)

First, Hooker, use spell check, and then realize that EVERYONE is a "new boat owner" the first time that the get behind the helm! So...if, as you say, "new boat owners" should be licensed, then doesn't that mean that everyone should be licensed??

 

[Christine Barber]

For Jim Gorman

Hooray! Congratulations on your contribution to fellow man...Education is the absolute key to everything...combine that with common sense and COURTESY and you now have a winning combination. Licensing validates education. But God bless the uneducated people, for they provide job security for me...I am a paramedic.

 

[Dennis Brennan]

NYS Legislature would love it.

Although it would be comforting to know all boaters were very much aware of safety considerations for their own lives and that of their guests, it would become an unbelievable nuisance if regulated by government still searching for new methods of taxation and revenue. New York will announce an 8 Billion deficit plus, immediately after the election. We currently have three state taxes on cell phones as well as 3 Federal. Any new avenues, such as licensing fees, required state sponsored courses, etc., I can assure you would become one more addition to state coffers. And then, of course, Coast Guard services would no doubt be further cut back. Self-regulation through local organizations is the only answer for the time being.

 

[alan]

I favor at least a written test of knowledge. alan

.

 

[John Kosmalski]

Consider the PWC nonsense

In Michigan we have ever increasing laws to punish users of personal watercraft, also known as jet skis. One must be at least 18 and possess a PWC 'license', and expect to be stopped everywhere when operating legally. Talk about taking the fun out of legal boat ownership and operation. There are already laws governing safe operation - why impose further restrictions on other boat owners. In the same state, a 16 year old can operate any other boat of any size without so much as demonstrating he/she knows the bow from the stern, let alone any rules of navigation or safe operation. My point is, once you let lawmakers get there hands on a licensing process - look out! People who are against waterskiing, fishing, etc., etc., will find some way to put the hurt on the rest of us through politically minded legislators.

 

[Roger Sneden]

Regulations have never been the ultimate answer.

I read many of the responses, and all have something of value to add to the discussion. Sooo, I would like the readers to ponder this: (I am in the military and live in Germany at the present time.) The Germans require schools for EVERYTHING! (You can't play golf until you go to a golfing class and get certified; you can't sail until you take a class and get a license; you can't fish until you take a course in fishing; you can't drive until you go through a several hundred dollar (EURO) driving course.....). The impression I get is that the only benefit is for those giving the courses. German drivers think there the best (they are the most regulated!...compared to Italy, Brazil, the States, etc.)......but I would rather drive in Spain than in Germany...it is safer! Licensing and regulations only provide a sense of order, but it is PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY that makes the difference! The Germans are "fatalistic" on the highway, and it is damn scary! They don't appear to feel personally responsible...let the other guy get out of the way! Rules are rules and they appear they would rather be "dead" right than...... Now, here is something else to consider - presented with an example - TESTS DO NOT ALWAYS REFLECT COMPETENCY. When I took a written sailing test at the Naval War College (after 12 years of sailing experience), I failed! But when I took the practical sailing test at the helm in the harbor full of boats, I scored a 100%.So, from my perspective, if you want to increase the cost of boating (to me, that is sailing), apply additional regulations; I doubt if the activity will be any safer. It is the CULTURE that makes the difference...and in boating that would be the culture of courtesy, consideration, caution, and good sportsmanship.

 

[Bill W.]

Well in the case of PWCs

No defense. The most godawful nautical invention.