I just compleated a trip down the Arkansas River with a couple of friends in a Mac 26X. The weather was cool and cloudy most of the days and one night it rained heavily. The problem we encountered was at night the humidity in the boat was so high the sides and top sweated so much it was like it was raining inside. Any ideas how to cope with this problem. It was either too cold or too wet to leave the hatch open for venting.
cold weather crusing
- Thread starter JWH2050
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Cold Weather Cruising
You may wish to install a Nicro, 4-inch, solar powered vent, on your Mac. It operates 24 hours a day and replaces all of the air inside the boat in about every 20 minutes. I installed mine in the forward hatch cover above the vee berth.
You may wish to install a Nicro, 4-inch, solar powered vent, on your Mac. It operates 24 hours a day and replaces all of the air inside the boat in about every 20 minutes. I installed mine in the forward hatch cover above the vee berth.
did you have a heat source? was propane part of the problem? I've used small propane lanterns for heat, took the chill off, raised interior temps from mid 40's to mid to high 50's. didn't notice any (much) condensation. but it was only used for short periods of time...
I agree with the solar vent idea. Just like in camping, if you leave it completely closed up (think back to those "pup tents" you used back in Boy Scouts), you'd be swimming in condensation by morning. The solar vent set to exhaust could aid in keeping it dry.
It does have a solar vent that was working. We also had a heater but it still seem like it was raining in the morning. Other wise a good trip.
This is also a very major problem on aircraft requiring much maintenance and suspended (not touching the skin) water proofed insulation. This gives an airflow between the skin and insulation.
I have seen somewhere on this forum a classic or older Mac with a carpeted ceiling. No It wasn't a 70's purple shag but something like an outdoor carpet light brown and nicely installed. This isn't a full proof against condensation but would be ok in most of the cold humid conditions over a couple of nights. There are antibacterial impregnated carpets to prevent mould I wouldn't want this.
After a trip a good airing and drying with a 110v fan. Moving air is the major dissipater of condensation and I don't mean three guys passing beery wind in a plastic berth. A few silica gel moisture units left in the boat after a trip would help some.
I have to research getting a hatch solar vent but I need forum feed back on whether they are a gimmick or not and are they noisy?
Keep us posted. Living and sailing where I do I am also interested in this problem.
Mic J
I have seen somewhere on this forum a classic or older Mac with a carpeted ceiling. No It wasn't a 70's purple shag but something like an outdoor carpet light brown and nicely installed. This isn't a full proof against condensation but would be ok in most of the cold humid conditions over a couple of nights. There are antibacterial impregnated carpets to prevent mould I wouldn't want this.
After a trip a good airing and drying with a 110v fan. Moving air is the major dissipater of condensation and I don't mean three guys passing beery wind in a plastic berth. A few silica gel moisture units left in the boat after a trip would help some.
I have to research getting a hatch solar vent but I need forum feed back on whether they are a gimmick or not and are they noisy?
Keep us posted. Living and sailing where I do I am also interested in this problem.
Mic J
Mic, thanks (a lot) for the visual and aural image there
Reminds me of several years ago, I took the family on a three day stay on a Colorado lake. Jumped the gun a little on the date going at the end of Feb - still ice on the lake. We had rented a slip with AC so had a space heater in the boat. On the day we were going to leave, woke up to 60 mph winds and about 45 F temps. Four of us and two dogs were pretty much "trapped" inside the boat (26S) all day.. Couldnt take it anymore (and out of supplies) and decided to pull the boat out in late afternoon. Winds had dropped to about 30 mph but the temps had also dropped to about 30F. Waves were splashing on the dock leaving them iced over.. Extremely hairy getting the boat out.
I think there were probably two reasons for the wet sides and top. One is that the breath you exhale is humid. The other is that warmer air (inside the cabin) holds more humidity than colder air. The colder air outside cools the top and sides and the inside air that comes in contact with them cools and loses moisture as condensation.
The only way I know of to beat that is ventilation. The people I know who use solar ventis seem to like them.
The only way I know of to beat that is ventilation. The people I know who use solar ventis seem to like them.
Yep you have it exactly right. Insulation would also do it with a vapor barrier on the living quarters side like you do in house construction, but very impractical in our situation. Also in house construction the vapor barrier is in the inside and the insulation can still breath through the outside of the house. With the fiberglass outer shell on our boats that breathing would be cut off and any moisture that got past the inside vapor barrier would then condense in the insulation. That is not good.
We have been in the boat overnight down to 30, but sleep in the V-berth and have the hatch cracked. That has worked and kept the condensation to very little, but we also live in a dry area.
c ya,
Sum
Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID
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Walt
That is pushing the envelope. Did the divorce go through ??
I know the post winter frustration. We have April as winter's end and we are chomping at the bit by then to get sailing. Getting back to the thread you bring up another factor with condensation. Frozen condensation inside and frozen spray in cockpit and sink drains trailer bunks, and the docks with non salt water. This is a real hazard also wet frozen sheets. (not bed sheets)
So the condensation problem is an early warning its getting too cold so back to couch sailing or suck it up sailor
Mic J
That is pushing the envelope. Did the divorce go through ??
I know the post winter frustration. We have April as winter's end and we are chomping at the bit by then to get sailing. Getting back to the thread you bring up another factor with condensation. Frozen condensation inside and frozen spray in cockpit and sink drains trailer bunks, and the docks with non salt water. This is a real hazard also wet frozen sheets. (not bed sheets)
So the condensation problem is an early warning its getting too cold so back to couch sailing or suck it up sailor
Mic J
We drove two cars (she came later). Big spring snow storm on the day we headed back (caused the bad weather) and she spun my car off the road. Bent all four rims... cost me $1K... I guess she thought this was fair payback.
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I better start reading some of the advice on this thread. It's snowing in Houston! While I'm on the topic of the bizarre, the Saints are 11-0! What's next - flying pigs?
Walt, wasn't there a 70's tune "Three Dog Night" So you only had a one dog night. That is a heck of a boating experience. Haven't had anything close to it in the cold weather.
We have only a skiff of snow instead of the usual 2 foot and just below freezing (30 F minus 1 C) Looks like we've swapped weather.
Mic J
We have only a skiff of snow instead of the usual 2 foot and just below freezing (30 F minus 1 C) Looks like we've swapped weather.
Mic J
I’ve also heard that alcohol stoves produce lots of condensation.. Don’t know, I’ve never heated this way.
The rest of the docking story.. on the day above, my wife had left earlier, took my car and one dog (we still had the tow truck). Still in the boat – two boys and another dog. As mentioned, we watched the weather all day looking for a window to leave, the window never really happened and temps were dropping. I decided to leave anyhow, I needed to get to work the next day, kids had school. Just backing out of the slip was a fairy big deal with a strong headwind. The wind was blowing 90 degree’s to two accessible ramp docks so I white knuckle motored over to the dock which was downwind (i.e., wind would blow the boat into the dock). Got tied up and discovered that the 60 mph winds in the morning had taken out part of the dock near the pavement – would have had to swim about 10 yards to get to solid ground – and I definitely considered doing this even with water temp about 35F. I decided to use the other intact dock even though the only side accessible had the boat down wind of the dock with strong wind – i.e., about the worst possible configuration. I managed to get over to the other dock and a bow rope tied to a dock cleat. But I now had to move the boat down the length of the dock and as mentioned, the whole dock was coated with ice and was super slick. There were cleats on the dock about 15 foot apart so what I had to do was get the bow rope pulled in all the way, release the boat from the cleat, let the boat float away (with the kids on board..wish I had a picture of the expression on their young faces..) and carefully “walk” to the next cleat. Between cleats, I was walking on extremely slick ice, no chance to even slightly hold the boat but the rope was long. Id get to the next cleat, pull the boat back in and then repeat this process for maybe 50 yards. Finally got to the end of the ramp and we put a second rope on the back of the boat and were able to line it up with the trailer. I have never been that happy to get the boat off the water.. And, my kids will remember a nice fun adventure with dad. Note.. if I had lost control of the boat on the icy dock, it would have drifted into the other dock about 50 yards away so I was only being sort of irresponsible with the kids..
Robspan, glad we could send some of the Colorado crummy weather your way..
The rest of the docking story.. on the day above, my wife had left earlier, took my car and one dog (we still had the tow truck). Still in the boat – two boys and another dog. As mentioned, we watched the weather all day looking for a window to leave, the window never really happened and temps were dropping. I decided to leave anyhow, I needed to get to work the next day, kids had school. Just backing out of the slip was a fairy big deal with a strong headwind. The wind was blowing 90 degree’s to two accessible ramp docks so I white knuckle motored over to the dock which was downwind (i.e., wind would blow the boat into the dock). Got tied up and discovered that the 60 mph winds in the morning had taken out part of the dock near the pavement – would have had to swim about 10 yards to get to solid ground – and I definitely considered doing this even with water temp about 35F. I decided to use the other intact dock even though the only side accessible had the boat down wind of the dock with strong wind – i.e., about the worst possible configuration. I managed to get over to the other dock and a bow rope tied to a dock cleat. But I now had to move the boat down the length of the dock and as mentioned, the whole dock was coated with ice and was super slick. There were cleats on the dock about 15 foot apart so what I had to do was get the bow rope pulled in all the way, release the boat from the cleat, let the boat float away (with the kids on board..wish I had a picture of the expression on their young faces..) and carefully “walk” to the next cleat. Between cleats, I was walking on extremely slick ice, no chance to even slightly hold the boat but the rope was long. Id get to the next cleat, pull the boat back in and then repeat this process for maybe 50 yards. Finally got to the end of the ramp and we put a second rope on the back of the boat and were able to line it up with the trailer. I have never been that happy to get the boat off the water.. And, my kids will remember a nice fun adventure with dad. Note.. if I had lost control of the boat on the icy dock, it would have drifted into the other dock about 50 yards away so I was only being sort of irresponsible with the kids..
Robspan, glad we could send some of the Colorado crummy weather your way..
I use one of these to keep the boat warm and it also works in the cockpit to take the chill off.
It does not seem to make a lot of moisture.
http://www.gearreview.com/blackcat.asp
It does not seem to make a lot of moisture.
http://www.gearreview.com/blackcat.asp
Thanks, we like that better than the larger space heater looking Mr. Heater that we were considering as it looks to take up less space. One nice thing about having a smaller boat is you aren't heating up so much space and it doesn't take much heat to do the job. I really like the small amount of fresh air that is needed for it. We will still probably error on the safe side there and I'd never go to sleep with one of these running regardless of what that review said.
It looks like they have a newer version.....
http://www.target.com/Coleman-BlackCat-EI-Catalytic-Heater/dp/B000DLBLL8/ref=sc_qi_detailbutton
....... but we like this...................
http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/182-9404817-9370919?ASIN=B000BPW278&AFID=Froogle&L
............... one even better it runs almost twice as long on a bottle so you can probably turn it down further and it is pointed straight up that might be an added safety feature in our small cabins.
Then again Mr. Heater now has this..................
http://www.target.com/Mr-Heater-Portable-Little-Buddy/dp/B001DTOM1U/ref=sc_qi_detailbutton
....... one that seems to have a lot of safety features, like tip over shut-off and low oxygen sensor. A little more money, but maybe a lot safer.
Decisions, decisions, but we will be getting one of these, thanks again,
Sum and Ruth
Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID
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If I can plug into AC, I use a 1500 watt space heater (like now with my boat in the back yard).
I have one of the Coleman Sportcat heaters (middle one in Sumners post) and it takes burning a couple of tanks of gas before it doesnt put out an odd "burning" odor but it seems to work OK. I havnt tried comparing any specs but I would guess the Coleman heater puts out just a haiir less heat than the space heater on the 750 watt setting.
I would never use the propane heater over night. I dont even use if if Im drowsy at all. Its supposed to be safe with a little ventilation - and the sailboat has a little ventilation even with the hatch closed. But.. I just dont trust the heater that much. Ive had a propane oven in a cabin set off a CO alarm cooking a pizza (stove was replaced with electric). I understand I cant use this info to make a safety conclusion on the Coleman heater.. none the less, I use the Coleman heater but it scares me (which makes me respect the danger).
Ive got this cool little almost antique wood stove.. Not practical for the sailboat.. but I think about putting it in there temporary during the winter, would be cozy.
I have one of the Coleman Sportcat heaters (middle one in Sumners post) and it takes burning a couple of tanks of gas before it doesnt put out an odd "burning" odor but it seems to work OK. I havnt tried comparing any specs but I would guess the Coleman heater puts out just a haiir less heat than the space heater on the 750 watt setting.
I would never use the propane heater over night. I dont even use if if Im drowsy at all. Its supposed to be safe with a little ventilation - and the sailboat has a little ventilation even with the hatch closed. But.. I just dont trust the heater that much. Ive had a propane oven in a cabin set off a CO alarm cooking a pizza (stove was replaced with electric). I understand I cant use this info to make a safety conclusion on the Coleman heater.. none the less, I use the Coleman heater but it scares me (which makes me respect the danger).
Ive got this cool little almost antique wood stove.. Not practical for the sailboat.. but I think about putting it in there temporary during the winter, would be cozy.
I have a black cat and two sport cat heaters along with a two burner camp stove and a single mantle lantern that all use the small propane bottles.
My heaters have just one power level, on and off.
The larger black cat puts out more heat and thus uses more gas.
My heaters have just one power level, on and off.
The larger black cat puts out more heat and thus uses more gas.
So if there is no adjustment of the heat which one would you recommend for down to 30 degrees for the cabin?
I think we would rather have one that maybe doesn't heat up as quick, thinking if one puts out a lot of heat we would be turning it off and on more often. Do they have a pilot that can stay lit so you don't have to keep relighting it?
The Mr. Heater specs say:
Thanks,
Sum
This is my 110v heater
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...Primary Search/mode matchallpartial/0/0?N=377 710&Ne=0&Ntt=heaters&Ntk=Primary Search&Ntx=mode matchallpartial&Nao=0&Ns=0&keyword=heaters&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=5002&subdeptNum=12&classNum=543
It will keep the boat warm in my driveway with temp in the 30's and wind blowing around 30mph as long as I keep the top down.
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...Primary Search/mode matchallpartial/0/0?N=377 710&Ne=0&Ntt=heaters&Ntk=Primary Search&Ntx=mode matchallpartial&Nao=0&Ns=0&keyword=heaters&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=5002&subdeptNum=12&classNum=543
It will keep the boat warm in my driveway with temp in the 30's and wind blowing around 30mph as long as I keep the top down.
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