You are very welcome! I am anxious to see how the dock lines lay on the dock this way.
Coil Or Braid Your Dock Lines?
- Thread starter Sail123
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So are we talking stowage on the boat or on the dock/slip?
Clearly you would not stow line on the dock using the crocheting method. I can't see it being used in my rope locker either as it takes too much time and effort to do it.
Youall do know about the "back-feed" technique right? Take as many lines as you want to store and starting with the end you will eventually have on the boat back feed it into the locker. Just lay the line in the locker with no thought to making it do anything but lay there. Secure the other end to the locker side for easy grabbin. Repeat for as many lines as you have space for. When you need a line (you marked them right?) you just grab the end on the locker side and pull. Comes right out without tangles. AND is a whole lot faster and easier to do.
Clearly you would not stow line on the dock using the crocheting method. I can't see it being used in my rope locker either as it takes too much time and effort to do it.
Youall do know about the "back-feed" technique right? Take as many lines as you want to store and starting with the end you will eventually have on the boat back feed it into the locker. Just lay the line in the locker with no thought to making it do anything but lay there. Secure the other end to the locker side for easy grabbin. Repeat for as many lines as you have space for. When you need a line (you marked them right?) you just grab the end on the locker side and pull. Comes right out without tangles. AND is a whole lot faster and easier to do.
Agree. This is exactly the same technique as 'stuffing into a throwing bag' ... and rarely will the lines ever become tangled. This is also how a rope locker or chain locker with a hawse pipe entry works ... as long you dont artificially put 'undue twists' in the line, the rope (or chain) will 'come out' the same way it 'went in' ... and no tangles!
There are other methods .... and all depend on stowage of the line/rope without 'twists' being artificially put into the rope.
1. The alternating reverse coil: coil the line by holding the formed coils in your left hand and 'reverse' every other coil so that each 'reverse' coil forms a simple 'half hitch' ... or one half of a clove hitch for every 'normal' coil laid over your left hand, then twist the few feet of 'end' rope around the middle of the line, etc.
2. The 'figure 8 coil' (faster than the alternating reverse coil) ... hold the coils in your left hand, do not ever 'let go' with your right hand as you transfer the coil to your left hand .... the right hand 'slides along' the rope as you form the 'next' coil, the 'transfer' to the left hand is accomplished by the thumb, etc. of the left hand. As each coil twists as it 'needs' to be the next coil on top that coil will automatically 'reverse' as needed. Wrap the end of the rope around the middle of the coils to finish. When completed the coiled line will be a 'bunch' of "8's". To throw such a coil ... divide the coil into two equal parts ... there will be only one length of rope between the two coils .... and throw with the right hand and simply drop the coils in your left hand onto the ground, deck, etc. as the 'right hand coil' pays out.
To temporary store on a dock piling, simply hang the line over the post top with the unattached end in easy grasp - never a tangle when deploying.
The 'absolute' worst thing to do with any line when storing or coiling is to 'wind' the rope between/around your hand and over your elbow .... this will put an 'ungodly' amount of twists into the rope and the twists will undoubtedly 'tangle'.
Taking dock lines with you
First of all, not being rich yotties, we didn't want to spend money on a duplicate set of docklines to be used in case there was a spontaneous raft-up somewhere. Decent line is not cheap.
But more importantly, when coming back in to the dock, the lines were used during the docking process to stop the boat. One was tied both amidships and at the stern, and served as both a stern and spring line. The other was tied to the bow cleat. When approaching the dock, I would stand amidships with bow line in hand, step off as we got close, and loop the line around the forward cleat on the dock but not pull it too tight so as not to bring the bow in too much. The skipper stepped off with stern/spring line in hand and would do the same, loop it on a cleat. If the boat had any momentum left when we reached the dock, the loop on the dock cleat gave us enough strength to stop any residual motion (generally there wasn't much unless we were compensating for fluky currents or something).
This technique made for countless flawless docking maneuvers, and unlike other boats, we never had to radio the marina for "help" tying up to our slip.
You can't do that if you leave your lines on the dock. Also, leaving lines at the dock invites theft if you don't have security at your establishment.
As for storage of the lines, we leave them properly coiled (figure 8 style) in a bucket in the cockpit locker. I cannot imagine doing the crochet stitch; I suspect that might cause some unnatural kinking and shorten the life of the line.
I'll explain how the puzzling concept of taking dock lines with the boat when we kept it at a slip.
First of all, not being rich yotties, we didn't want to spend money on a duplicate set of docklines to be used in case there was a spontaneous raft-up somewhere. Decent line is not cheap.
But more importantly, when coming back in to the dock, the lines were used during the docking process to stop the boat. One was tied both amidships and at the stern, and served as both a stern and spring line. The other was tied to the bow cleat. When approaching the dock, I would stand amidships with bow line in hand, step off as we got close, and loop the line around the forward cleat on the dock but not pull it too tight so as not to bring the bow in too much. The skipper stepped off with stern/spring line in hand and would do the same, loop it on a cleat. If the boat had any momentum left when we reached the dock, the loop on the dock cleat gave us enough strength to stop any residual motion (generally there wasn't much unless we were compensating for fluky currents or something).
This technique made for countless flawless docking maneuvers, and unlike other boats, we never had to radio the marina for "help" tying up to our slip.
You can't do that if you leave your lines on the dock. Also, leaving lines at the dock invites theft if you don't have security at your establishment.
As for storage of the lines, we leave them properly coiled (figure 8 style) in a bucket in the cockpit locker. I cannot imagine doing the crochet stitch; I suspect that might cause some unnatural kinking and shorten the life of the line.
Well I bought a 50 foot line, doubled it as shown and very quickly braided it. It is a nice and neat 5 ft long. To each your own.
No hoppings...
Midships Spring Lines
A co.com thread some time ago had some good info and other good links: http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=107562
Included in that link is something I wrote this for Latitude 38 in April 2008, in case you choose not to read that entire link:
HOPPING OFF THE BOAT IS UNNECESSARY
In the April issue, Mark Johnston asked about dealing with aging knees and boat docking in “Senior Sailors and High Freeboard.” He expressed his concern about docking (his Catalina 34!!!) with a potential future bigger boat, noting “…it’s not so easy…for my wife and me to jump down to the dock with lines in our hands.” We’ve had our Catalina 34 for the past 10 years, with a C22 for two and a C25 for twelve before that, sailing all over the Bay, the Delta and up & down the coast. We employ what we believe is the most useful and safe technique for docking that still seems to be a mystery to most sailors. It’s called the midships spring line. Our older Catalina 34s did not come with a midships cleat, so we added one on each side at the forward end of the jib fairlead track. Many newer boats come with them. There really is no reason to ever have to jump off a boat to dock it properly. I recommend that Mark Google “midships springline” – there is a wealth of information available, one of which is: http://www.cruising.sailingcourse.com/docking.htm.
The maneuver is simple: attach the springline to the midships cleat, run it fair outside the lifelines, as you approach the dock loop the springline over the aft dock cleat and bring it back to the winch. Snug it up and keep the boat in low throttle forward and the boat will sidle right up to the dock, no jumping is EVER required. A friend developed an enhanced springline arrangement with a prefixed length of line with a hose holding a lower loop of line open to assure that it catches the cleat on the dock, so that no line needs to be returned to the winch. ***
I do a lot of single-handed sailing and have found this invaluable in docking in all conditions. I’m sure that once this “trick” is learned and mastered it can be used in a wide variety of docking situations with all manner of wind and currents.
It’s not only safer, it’s a sure knee and back saver. The only drawback is when docks don’t have cleats, but have those nutty rings or the wooden raised runners so prevalent in the Pacific Northwest. I think that’s one reason they invented grapnel hooks!
*** Nautiduck, Randy Kolb's, "Dock A Matic" is described in the C25 Forum here: http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15645 I am sure it could be applied to our boats as well if you tried; I've thought about it, but am still using our 40 foot long 1/2 inch dockline for that purpose without the nifty "loop in hose" idea. Whatever works for you.
Yup, lines aren't cheap, but we've found over the years that there are sales and have built up a goodly assortment of lines. I stopped doing that a few years ago, 'cuz the inventory was getting too large to keep track of!I'll explain how the puzzling concept of taking dock lines with the boat when we kept it at a slip.
First of all, not being rich yotties, we didn't want to spend money on a duplicate set of docklines to be used in case there was a spontaneous raft-up somewhere. Decent line is not cheap.
...step off as we got close, and loop the line around the forward cleat on the dock but not pull it too tight so as not to bring the bow in too much. The skipper stepped off
Midships Spring Lines
A co.com thread some time ago had some good info and other good links: http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=107562
Included in that link is something I wrote this for Latitude 38 in April 2008, in case you choose not to read that entire link:
HOPPING OFF THE BOAT IS UNNECESSARY
In the April issue, Mark Johnston asked about dealing with aging knees and boat docking in “Senior Sailors and High Freeboard.” He expressed his concern about docking (his Catalina 34!!!) with a potential future bigger boat, noting “…it’s not so easy…for my wife and me to jump down to the dock with lines in our hands.” We’ve had our Catalina 34 for the past 10 years, with a C22 for two and a C25 for twelve before that, sailing all over the Bay, the Delta and up & down the coast. We employ what we believe is the most useful and safe technique for docking that still seems to be a mystery to most sailors. It’s called the midships spring line. Our older Catalina 34s did not come with a midships cleat, so we added one on each side at the forward end of the jib fairlead track. Many newer boats come with them. There really is no reason to ever have to jump off a boat to dock it properly. I recommend that Mark Google “midships springline” – there is a wealth of information available, one of which is: http://www.cruising.sailingcourse.com/docking.htm.
The maneuver is simple: attach the springline to the midships cleat, run it fair outside the lifelines, as you approach the dock loop the springline over the aft dock cleat and bring it back to the winch. Snug it up and keep the boat in low throttle forward and the boat will sidle right up to the dock, no jumping is EVER required. A friend developed an enhanced springline arrangement with a prefixed length of line with a hose holding a lower loop of line open to assure that it catches the cleat on the dock, so that no line needs to be returned to the winch. ***
I do a lot of single-handed sailing and have found this invaluable in docking in all conditions. I’m sure that once this “trick” is learned and mastered it can be used in a wide variety of docking situations with all manner of wind and currents.
It’s not only safer, it’s a sure knee and back saver. The only drawback is when docks don’t have cleats, but have those nutty rings or the wooden raised runners so prevalent in the Pacific Northwest. I think that’s one reason they invented grapnel hooks!
*** Nautiduck, Randy Kolb's, "Dock A Matic" is described in the C25 Forum here: http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15645 I am sure it could be applied to our boats as well if you tried; I've thought about it, but am still using our 40 foot long 1/2 inch dockline for that purpose without the nifty "loop in hose" idea. Whatever works for you.
I used to use a 2-piece spring line to the mid cleat for docking on my 34 footer, with a ring spliced onto one end of the break, and a heavy hook on the other end, and snap them together as I came in. I stopped bothering with that eventually, and just used a stern line with an eye splice. Since I had no current to deal with, and as long as the cross wind off the dock wasn't too severe, it was just fine, and gave me plenty of control of the bow while motoring against the line.
It was very easy to grab the dock line (while in the cockpit) on the way in and hook it on the stern cleat. I never used it to arrest forward motion, as I made a point of stopping the boat where I wanted it with the engine, then gently motoring forward against the stern line, steering the bow against the dock as needed depending on the wind. I could then grab the dock-side bow line while standing on the bow with a boat hook (engine holding it against the dock via the stern line) and slip it over the cleat. After that I could kill the engine and tie it up. Easy peasy. Mostly did that solo, even when I had crew, since I had it down to a system.
I don't believe I've ever stepped off the boat with a line during docking. Once or twice I had some help (other boaters on the dock) with some really bad crosswinds pushing me away from the dock, but I keep a static line between my boat and my neighbor (to an outboard piling), just so I don't get blown into his boat in a bad wind if I can't get my act together. I never got around to making a real bridle, but that would be nice I suppose.
I never take the dock lines with me, either. 3-strand is relatively cheap in bulk, and easy to make eye splices in, plus it's nice and stretchy. I keep three 50 ft lengths of braided stuff (fat - nice in the hand) I inherited with another boat for ports and raftups when away from home. The permanent lines stay put, preadjusted for the amount of slack I want (no tides to worry about, either). If someone wants to steal my dock lines, let them. There are plenty of pricey double-braid lines in pretty colors to choose from other than my dirty white 3-strand lines. Haven't lost one yet.
It was very easy to grab the dock line (while in the cockpit) on the way in and hook it on the stern cleat. I never used it to arrest forward motion, as I made a point of stopping the boat where I wanted it with the engine, then gently motoring forward against the stern line, steering the bow against the dock as needed depending on the wind. I could then grab the dock-side bow line while standing on the bow with a boat hook (engine holding it against the dock via the stern line) and slip it over the cleat. After that I could kill the engine and tie it up. Easy peasy. Mostly did that solo, even when I had crew, since I had it down to a system.
I don't believe I've ever stepped off the boat with a line during docking. Once or twice I had some help (other boaters on the dock) with some really bad crosswinds pushing me away from the dock, but I keep a static line between my boat and my neighbor (to an outboard piling), just so I don't get blown into his boat in a bad wind if I can't get my act together. I never got around to making a real bridle, but that would be nice I suppose.
I never take the dock lines with me, either. 3-strand is relatively cheap in bulk, and easy to make eye splices in, plus it's nice and stretchy. I keep three 50 ft lengths of braided stuff (fat - nice in the hand) I inherited with another boat for ports and raftups when away from home. The permanent lines stay put, preadjusted for the amount of slack I want (no tides to worry about, either). If someone wants to steal my dock lines, let them. There are plenty of pricey double-braid lines in pretty colors to choose from other than my dirty white 3-strand lines. Haven't lost one yet.
I always dock single handed. I have lines I have strung between my boat and my neighbors. They serve as keeping my boat in the slip, a place to drape my stern lines and spring lines, and lastly I use them to center the boat in the slip. I have it down where I can grab the stern line and with the other hand pull the boat over to the dock if I have a cross wind. I ca then quickly grab a short spring line that goes to the stern and cleat my stern line. I then go to the bow for both bow lines and proceed with the rest. Works good for me. To make it easier to get out of a slip alone I put a bridle that holds the bow fairly centered until I can get back to the stern to back it out. I don't jump off the boat or get help. Not young either.
I use spring lines that I keep attached on each to the rear cleats. I am able to loop over a dock cleat while sitting in the cockpit as I slowly drift into the dock.
The only concern that I have is that the spring lines that I was able to buy were only about 3/8" diam. They haven't broken yet but they just seam a little light. I have not see larger spring lines.
The docking technique I learned from watching the Catalina Express boat dock. The water taxi docks the same way.
The only concern that I have is that the spring lines that I was able to buy were only about 3/8" diam. They haven't broken yet but they just seam a little light. I have not see larger spring lines.
The docking technique I learned from watching the Catalina Express boat dock. The water taxi docks the same way.
I did not measure my braided lines, but thinking back, that is about what mine come out to. I did one 100 foot line, a water ski rope, and I did that with the line doubled over, and doubled over again, and that came out to about five feet long.
As to the notion that doing this is hard on the line by another poster, really? I have a two dollar bet it is not hard on the line.
As to the notion that doing this is hard on the line by another poster, really? I have a two dollar bet it is not hard on the line.
NotCook
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- Dec 29, 2008
- 805
I got a chuckle out of this when I read it. I would never rely on a cleat to stop the boat. Something is bound to break, and it is most likely the dock cleat pulling out of the dock. If we didn't approach the dock dead slow, we would consider it being out of control. Maybe one can get away with it on a smaller boat, but wouldn't recommend it as a "best practice".
WRT coiling the lines on the dock, while i agree that it certainly "looks nautical" it has always been my impression that the coils hold water and contribute to damness, mildew, algae, rot and dirt accumulation in and under the coil on docklines which are left on the dock. We have been daisy chaining for years. I also recognize that pushing the lines into a bag is a most effective way to store lines.
I leave my dock lines on the dock. After pulling into the slip the first mate and I grab the lines with boat hooks and put them on the correct cleat. Since we have the lengths already worked out there is NO adjustment.
I do have spairs on board also.
I do have spairs on board also.
Re: No hoppings...
Ooh... good stuff. My knees and back are not what they used to be; same goes for the skipper. And the P34 has much higher freeboard and is not as easy to step on/off.
This technique looks decent, though. But again, you need to have docklines on board to do it.
We now keep our boat on a mooring so the only docking we do is when we have a bunch of stuff to load/unload (beginning and end of season and before cruise) or when we're fueling up.
Over the years, since buying our first boat in 1994, we have accumulated a lot of line. We have a whole locker of it now. But back then, not so much.
Ooh... good stuff. My knees and back are not what they used to be; same goes for the skipper. And the P34 has much higher freeboard and is not as easy to step on/off.
This technique looks decent, though. But again, you need to have docklines on board to do it.
We now keep our boat on a mooring so the only docking we do is when we have a bunch of stuff to load/unload (beginning and end of season and before cruise) or when we're fueling up.
Over the years, since buying our first boat in 1994, we have accumulated a lot of line. We have a whole locker of it now. But back then, not so much.
Master Chief Bosun Jeffcoat
According to Chief Jeffcoat, who was in charge of tieing up our 16,000 ton sub tender, the Gilmore, AS-16, the advantages of the coil are:
- It's easy to do and to teach
- You always know where the bitter end is if you are in a hurry
- They look shipshape and squared away
Arguing with Chief Jeffcoat was never a good idea, but I'm still convinced by his argument 42 years later!
According to Chief Jeffcoat, who was in charge of tieing up our 16,000 ton sub tender, the Gilmore, AS-16, the advantages of the coil are:
- It's easy to do and to teach
- You always know where the bitter end is if you are in a hurry
- They look shipshape and squared away
Arguing with Chief Jeffcoat was never a good idea, but I'm still convinced by his argument 42 years later!
I should add that the only extra 'hardware' I used for docklines was a simple piece of synthetic hose screwed vertically to the piling (couple of screws at the bottom) such that I could drape the stern line over it for easy access when docking. The stern line was always the last one cast off, as I would motor against it to hold the boat against the dock while the last bow line (dock-side) was cast off, and since the stern was nice and close to the dock, it was super easy to hang the stern line as I backed out.
Nothing fancy, but it made life much easier when coming in. Could have used a boat pole to grab it off the dock, especially if the loop was hanging over the side, but with the arch on the Hunter, or bimini hoops on another boat, it was best to have that one line hanging within easy reach from a short piece of hose. Or a plastic hook, but hose is virtually free, and it's nice and flexible in case some rigging tries to grab it.
Nothing fancy, but it made life much easier when coming in. Could have used a boat pole to grab it off the dock, especially if the loop was hanging over the side, but with the arch on the Hunter, or bimini hoops on another boat, it was best to have that one line hanging within easy reach from a short piece of hose. Or a plastic hook, but hose is virtually free, and it's nice and flexible in case some rigging tries to grab it.
I keep a set of "away" dock lines in my boat and I keep a set in my slip. I have put some hooks on the end pilings to hold my lines while I am out. I am able to put the spring line on the end pile ons too.
I coil my lines that I keep in the boat. When I get one wet when leaving a transient slip I will coil it and tie it on the rear pulpit to dry.
Coiling the lines is really quick. The other braiding method is okay, but it takes more time to put together and take down.
I coil my lines that I keep in the boat. When I get one wet when leaving a transient slip I will coil it and tie it on the rear pulpit to dry.
Coiling the lines is really quick. The other braiding method is okay, but it takes more time to put together and take down.
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