Coastguard Harassment - ?

Scott T-Bird · Jun 27, 2011

Ross, on a related note ...

There is a gas station right off my exit from Rte 80 that I frequently pull in to. So one day I notice the local law enforcement writing a ticket just down the road and then when he's done, he pulls into the gas station (parks right behind me) to watch for the next guy to roll thru the stop sign at the end of the ramp.

So I'm thinking, this is new ... then I'm getting a little ticked-off as it's about 7:00 and I'm just getting home from work.

Just what the taxpayer needs ... cops out there harassing and ticketing people as they are getting home from work ... working so that they can be taxed to pay the salaries of the jerks who are writing these frivolous tickets. If we have an abundance of law enforcement officers who are that uselessly engaged (even if it is just to increase municipal revenue), maybe we don't need so many on the payroll.

edited to add: As an aside, I noticed that this went on for a short period of time and then they stopped patrolling that violation ... it seems that enough people probably had the same sentiment that I had and the local officials probably got the message.

SEMIJim · Jun 27, 2011

Bill Roosa said:
How is this different from cops setting up a check point (center of the channel) to catch folks not following the rules or a sobriety check?

As in roadblocks for so-called "sobriety checkpoints?" I don't agree with those, either.

Bill Roosa said:
Given the number of "crazies" boating drunk I would think more folks would be applauding the law enforcement.

Pulling boats over for random safety checks is not "law enforcement," IMO.

What's the difference between the USCG randomly pulling boats over for safety checks, or sobriety check lanes, for that matter, and random law enforcement types randomly stopping people on the street to check to see if they're criminals? In some areas of some cities at some times of the day or night, I bet they'd get a pretty high "hit" rate if they did that. Heck, given the number of criminals walking-about out there, I would think more folks would applaud law enforcement for doing that.

Jim

Merlin Clark · Jun 27, 2011

Scott T-Bird said:
There is a gas station right off my exit from Rte 80 that I frequently pull in to. So one day I notice the local law enforcement writing a ticket just down the road and then when he's done, he pulls into the gas station (parks right behind me) to watch for the next guy to roll thru the stop sign at the end of the ramp.

So I'm thinking, this is new ... then I'm getting a little ticked-off as it's about 7:00 and I'm just getting home from work.

Just what the taxpayer needs ... cops out there harassing and ticketing people as they are getting home from work ... working so that they can be taxed to pay the salaries of the jerks who are writing these frivolous tickets. If we have an abundance of law enforcement officers who are that uselessly engaged (even if it is just to increase municipal revenue), maybe we don't need so many on the payroll.

edited to add: As an aside, I noticed that this went on for a short period of time and then they stopped patrolling that violation ... it seems that enough people probably had the same sentiment that I had and the local officials probably got the message.

You know I was thinking about something like this the other day when I almost got run over when entering US1 South from a local marina, in the slow lane, by a driver I pulled out in front of with maybe 300 feet of seperation. The left lane (what used to be referred to as the fast lane) was clear but this self important little fellow could not move to that lane and instead flew up my tailpipe. I was accelerating without stomping on it and got the finger as he passed anyway. See, I was obeying the law and entering traffic in a safe manner but disrupted his mad sprint to get home. Or to the gym, bar, etc.
What dawned on me is that, whilst a lot of older drivers may break the law occasionally by speeding or rolling through a stop sign, we don't think that it's our god given right to do just whatever the hell suits us at the moment and get indignant when we don't get to.
The driver that got the ticket was probably in violation of a law. If we get busted breaking a law let's not blame the cop. Let's take a little responsibility for our actions.

Scott T-Bird · Jun 27, 2011

Merlin, you make a valid point ...

but it really isn't pertinent. You are talking about getting miffed over bad behavior.

My point is about the fine line between over-zealous law enforcement and what is necessary.

Maybe I didn't know about a few accidents that may have happened at that intersection because people began rolling thru a stop sign without really even looking. Maybe the cops stopped patrolling that violation because, like me, people began noticing that tickets were being written and the cops just stopped finding violators. Or maybe they WERE just looking for revenue and after the munipality got inundated with complaints from their residents, they told the cops to knock it off.

We pay the salaries of law enforcement and CG. I think that many in law enforcement think that it is necessary that they have free reign in deciding how to assert their authority, but funding is a touchy subject to a lot of people right now. Just by reading these comments, it is easy to see that there is a gray area between harassment and necessary law enforcement. They can't afford to get too many people pissed off about how they patrol the streets or the waterways.

Merlin Clark · Jun 27, 2011

Re: Merlin, you make a valid point ...

I agree that no one should be expected to put up with abuse Scott.
Think that maybe the cops stopped paying so much attention to that particular intersection because people caught on that it was a trap?
I think cops are like fishermen, they go where there there are plenty of fish to be caught and move to a new area when that one starts going dry.
Happy sailing brother!

Gail R · Jun 27, 2011

Scott T-Bird said:
There is a gas station right off my exit from Rte 80 that I frequently pull in to. So one day I notice the local law enforcement writing a ticket just down the road and then when he's done, he pulls into the gas station (parks right behind me) to watch for the next guy to roll thru the stop sign at the end of the ramp.

So I'm thinking, this is new ... then I'm getting a little ticked-off as it's about 7:00 and I'm just getting home from work.

Just what the taxpayer needs ... cops out there harassing and ticketing people as they are getting home from work ... working so that they can be taxed to pay the salaries of the jerks who are writing these frivolous tickets.

Frivolous ticket? Really? For running a stop sign? I take it you have never had the pleasure of getting T-boned by someone running a stop sign, or have never had a friend/family member experience that. Trust me, it is not fun.

I understand better than most the urgency to get home from work, but that doesn't mean traffic laws don't apply to you. How many seconds do you lose by stopping at the stop sign? Five? Maybe 10? Is it worth it to get a ticket, or worse, get into an accident?

As for the intial post, I'm Libertarian by nature, but life can't be just a free for all either. I see enough idiots both on the road and on the water that I don't mind some rules of the road and LE presence to enforce said rules. Here in Maine, there is zero LE presence on the water. None. Nada. And we sure could use it. During one regatta, we nearly got cut in half by some overfunded dude in a sportfish crossing busy Portland Harbor on autopilot with NO ONE AT THE HELM within a quarter mile of the Coast Guard station and there wasn't a damn thing we could do except clean our shorts when he finally got a clue and narrowly missed us (large wave over our bow though).

Roger Long · Jun 27, 2011

Gail R said:
we nearly got cut in half by some overfunded dude in a sportfish crossing busy Portland Harbor on autopilot with NO ONE AT THE HELM ....

Is there anyone else here who that thinks that a paintball gun might be a valuable piece of safety equipment? It might not help the current crossing situation but might make life easier for the next guy.

KMm · Jun 27, 2011

Scott,I know what the original topic was but It wasn't me that introduced the cops into the thread. The CG sets up those checks points for more than one reason not to just for safety but for a number of reasons. The bottom line is the attitude that people have that they are not doing anything wrong if they don't get caught that causes the problem with both the CG and LEO's. We have all done it. If you are a safe boater then kudo's to you and any others like you, your not the problem, but how can we tell mind reading is not going to work. Get the inspection, pass, put your decal on the window and chances are you won't get stopped again. In this case its the many that ruin it for the few. Fair Winds

Bill Roosa · Jun 27, 2011

In MD and VA you have to get a vehicle inspection to insure your vehicle has breaks and lights work..... and your paperwork is in order.
There is no requriment to do the same for your boat however. So how does the USCG enforce it's regulation unless they go out and check folks?

Or we could have manditory inspections with stickers........ just like on cars and for a fee, just like cars.

I'm thinking free is better.

Scott T-Bird · Jun 27, 2011

Gail, I said rolling thru a stop sign (I'll bet you've done it on occasion), not running ... besides I already acknowledged the other side of the coin.

Kaymar, there is a difference between having an attitude that nothing is wrong until you're caught and having a negative attitude about being pulled over and intimidated when you have done NOTHING wrong and have NOTHING to hide. I do wonder, though, do police have the attitude that EVERYBODY is doing somthing wrong or has something to hide (thus the posture of intimidation for everybody they encounter).

Bill, you raise an interesting topic ... actually, why wouldn't it be a good idea to have a mandatory inspection with stickers? In New Jersey, we don't pay a fee for the inspection, but we pay taxes to cover the service, obviously ... those of us who pay taxes anyway. Logistics for boating would be difficult, for sure.

I see no reason why Coast Guard should have to board your boat to enforce regulation if they can see no reason to suspect that you AREN'T in compliance. Like somebody said, they would be neglecting more important matters if they are hanging around doing random boardings. I don't like the idea of random boardings on the water. If it's that necessary to do inspections, set it up in a controlled environment.

Rick Webb · Jun 27, 2011

Operation Drywater

I do not believe it is a secret that every year the week before Independence Day the Coast Guard steps up enforcement of the BUI laws. They actively try to step up enforcement and visibility as a preventive measure to head off as many cases as possible during the biggest boating weekend of the year. I suspect that is what was happening here, it usually covers the two weekend prior to the Fourth of July Weekend.

If it is supposed to be confidential you did not hear it from me.

Gail R · Jun 27, 2011

Rick Webb said:
I do not believe it is a secret that every year the week before Independence Day the Coast Guard steps up enforcement of the BUI laws. They actively try to step up enforcement and visibility as a preventive measure to head off as many cases as possible during the biggest boating weekend of the year. I suspect that is what was happening here, it usually covers the two weekend prior to the Fourth of July Weekend.

If it is supposed to be confidential you did not hear it from me.

It's called Operation Dry Water, and it's a very pubic national effort. One of our local TV news teams did a bit on it this weekend; I wrote a column on it last year. They're just trying to keep the drunks off, and also to make sure applicable PFD laws are being adhered to.

(from Scott T-bird) Gail, I said rolling thru a stop sign (I'll bet you've done it on occasion), not running ...

That is just semantics. Yes I have rolled through a stop sign, on my way home from work one day. Four of us got ticketed for it that day and none was defensible. Years later, the guy that T-boned me did so AFTER actually stopping. My point was that the extra few seconds you take to actually stop and look both ways (instead of give it the 'close enough' treatment) might save you from a lot of hassle and heartache.

Yeah you hit a sore spot.

The bonehead who hit me could have killed me but fortunately I was wearing a seat belt.

Scott T-Bird · Jun 27, 2011

Gail, yep ...

traffic violations are indefensible. I should know having paid a few fines in my day (not that I collect tickets regularly). I tell you what ... I'm going to blame Ross for bringing up the traffic violations analogy.

He said he was going 5 over the speed limit!

Ross · Jun 27, 2011

Roger, I want a paint ball deck gun on my boat and a pair mounted on my car. I just love sitting at an intersection with a signal that has turned green and watching the cars continue to run the light.

Keith13315 · Jun 28, 2011

Just thank the USCG they are the best, and those of you who don't like them, please don't call them when you are in distress just deal with it yourself.

Solace of Freedom · Jun 28, 2011

1977oday22 said:
Unless they get to write you a ticket, they will refer your distress call to BoatUs....(they aren't really the best, us ret Navy guys are)..

Of all of the gov. agencies I mentioned, I'm sure that the CG probalby does the most good. They are charged w/ not only policing, but assisting boaters too. (Because, you criticize an agencie's actions does not mean you are bashing everything they do & stand for.)
It's like some of you, I don't know if it's an older generation thing, have been brain washed into thinking that we need the Gov. to protect us from our [incompetent] selves and the "crazies" out there. I'm not sure what kind of training the CG receive, but I'd wager I'm more educated than a fair share of them. Shoot, If I don't know it, I'll read up on it, not ask for a gov. agency to instruct me on it at my inconvienence. I really don't feel I need to participate in said agencies "training session". Don, you may feel it's ok to give up your civil liberties so the Gov. can protect you from "incompetent boaters", I do not. (Maybe Kaymar can enlighten us on illegal search and seizure.) How crowded is the Gulf & Atlantic getting? Doesn't a safety check only aid the boat getting checked?
Kaymar, have you ever bagged a body after 40 mins of CPR failed to revive them, or shocked a person out of a lethal arrhythmia? I'm a nurse, I probably 'help' more people in a year than you'ved helped in a life time. Since you are retired, you are probably in the 'reflection' stage of life. Before you take the moral high ground ask yourself how many people thanked you vs. cursed you at the end of a work day.
Bill R. you must be an angel; never cheated on your taxes, broke the law while driving, smudged the #s a little? What other tests can you come up w/ to keep us all safe from ourselves?

kenn · Jun 29, 2011

June 21 there was a MOB/minor injury situation at the start of a shorthanded race in L.Ontario around Youngstown NY/Niagara-on-the-Lake ON. Both the USCG and the Cdn Coast Guard responded.

We've already heard a couple of maydays this season on Ch 16, that were competently handled.

So... I am prepared to cut the Coast Guards a little slack.

Do I think the USCG might have chosen a better spot for doing those checks, as reported here? Yes. But for some reason a marine police or coast guard uniform doesn't spook me. I'm confident enough in my modest boat-handling skills and the fact that we generally comply with the regs that a random check won't put a crimp in my day.

I don't like it when there's inappropriate or excessive enforcement either, but I'm not going to scream "nanny state" just because they occasionally check boats and enforce the law. There ARE still alot of idiots or careless or simply unprepared people on the water; I'm happy to see that a few get ticketed now and then.

Any leads on that deck-mounted paintball gun?

RON20406 · Jun 29, 2011

Although I beleive my previous comments addressed the issue at hand, there is one last element to this discussion that permeates all the subsequent responses: namely, the role of government in our lives. For anyone who has taken the time to read our Constitution and Bill of Rights and has even the most minimal knowledge of American History at the time of our revolution, we must remember that what we fought for as a young nation was, simply stated, less not more governement intrusion in our lives. If our founding fathers could see the peverse evolution over the last 200 plus years from a minimalist government to one which encompasses every aspect of our lives from what we eat to the reverse discrimination of Affirmative Action they would be spinning in their graves. The bottom line is simple: you either believe in big government or you don't. Ask yourselves, as they take our liberty on a daily basis what will be left? How much loss of liberty are you willing to tolerate? One can postulate unending reasons for these random CG searches, but the bottom line still remains: how are we protecting our national security with random searches of recreational boaters? I guess your answer depends on how you view the role of government in our lives. Good sailing, Ron