How real is the danger of CO with a diesel generator? I know a diesel generates a very small amount of CO, but has anyone ever heard of someone getting CO poisoning from one?
CO danger and diesel generators
- Thread starter Persy
- Start date
- Status
Who says they only generate a SMALL amount?
They are a diesel engine and I would expect that the CO emission would be comparable to any other diesel engine of the same size. IMHO you should exercise all appropriate cautions for any engine-driven machine with regard to CO emissions. To me this means proper installation, operation, and use of a CO detector.
They are a diesel engine and I would expect that the CO emission would be comparable to any other diesel engine of the same size. IMHO you should exercise all appropriate cautions for any engine-driven machine with regard to CO emissions. To me this means proper installation, operation, and use of a CO detector.
happens frequently
you can do a google search to see the numbers of articles written about CO deaths due to asphyxiation. All else being equal, a relatively small diesel engine can produce more CO than an a larger sized gas engine.
you can do a google search to see the numbers of articles written about CO deaths due to asphyxiation. All else being equal, a relatively small diesel engine can produce more CO than an a larger sized gas engine.
Oh really?
Got some numbers there, Don? I've never heard of anyone being overcome by diesel CO. And I've PERSONALLY tested them. Just not on purpose.
Got some numbers there, Don? I've never heard of anyone being overcome by diesel CO. And I've PERSONALLY tested them. Just not on purpose.
I was actually looking for facts...
I googled a bit today and not found any reports of deaths due to diesel generators....that doesn't mean it didn't happen, I'm sure it has...but it must not be very common. I can find dozens due to gasoline engines, that threat is clear and unquestionable. There is also no question that a gasoline engine produces many, many times more CO than a diesel. I'm not interested in debating this as it is well established. There's a level of CO on every city street, from cigarettes, in our homes etc etc. What level does a generator generate (hmmmmm) and under what conditions could it be dangerous. As much as I do appreciate being lectured and preached to on safety, buckling my seatbelt, not running with scissors, and proper installation and venting of all dangerous machinery, etc, I'd like to move on the facts if anyone can help... Fair (and CO free) winds and following seas to ya! P.S. from Boat US safety CO Concentration at the Source * Gasoline Engine 10,000 - 100,000 PPM * Diesel Engine 1,000 PPM
I googled a bit today and not found any reports of deaths due to diesel generators....that doesn't mean it didn't happen, I'm sure it has...but it must not be very common. I can find dozens due to gasoline engines, that threat is clear and unquestionable. There is also no question that a gasoline engine produces many, many times more CO than a diesel. I'm not interested in debating this as it is well established. There's a level of CO on every city street, from cigarettes, in our homes etc etc. What level does a generator generate (hmmmmm) and under what conditions could it be dangerous. As much as I do appreciate being lectured and preached to on safety, buckling my seatbelt, not running with scissors, and proper installation and venting of all dangerous machinery, etc, I'd like to move on the facts if anyone can help... Fair (and CO free) winds and following seas to ya! P.S. from Boat US safety CO Concentration at the Source * Gasoline Engine 10,000 - 100,000 PPM * Diesel Engine 1,000 PPM
monoxide
have you ever considered a carbon monoxide alarm as an alternative to anonymous opinions?
have you ever considered a carbon monoxide alarm as an alternative to anonymous opinions?
Fred
among the considerations on which I said "all else being equal" are equivalent torque loading, intake temperature, emission controls, ignition timing and a bunch of other stuff I won't bother with. Real world testing under practical operating variables can be a bit different than mfg data. CO emissions in terms of ppm concentration is meaningless as there is no reproducable method of measurement - that is why emission data is reported in g/kwh or g/bHP-hr which typically shows approx twice the CO emission from diesels as compared with gasoline engines. Glad your "testing" showed no negative effects.
among the considerations on which I said "all else being equal" are equivalent torque loading, intake temperature, emission controls, ignition timing and a bunch of other stuff I won't bother with. Real world testing under practical operating variables can be a bit different than mfg data. CO emissions in terms of ppm concentration is meaningless as there is no reproducable method of measurement - that is why emission data is reported in g/kwh or g/bHP-hr which typically shows approx twice the CO emission from diesels as compared with gasoline engines. Glad your "testing" showed no negative effects.
Get a CO detector for your neighbors exhaust
It does not matter if your generator is a CO hazard (it is), there are plenty of other sources of CO to worry about. You should get a detector for the day when you are anchored downwind of the stinkpot in the photo that I attached. I was below with all hatches closed in fresh air but my wife was up in the cockpit. It came on so gradually that she was unaware of why she was feeling wierd. I smelled it the minute I came up and when I brought up the CO detector, the alarm went off immediately.
It does not matter if your generator is a CO hazard (it is), there are plenty of other sources of CO to worry about. You should get a detector for the day when you are anchored downwind of the stinkpot in the photo that I attached. I was below with all hatches closed in fresh air but my wife was up in the cockpit. It came on so gradually that she was unaware of why she was feeling wierd. I smelled it the minute I came up and when I brought up the CO detector, the alarm went off immediately.
Just a Thought
Diesel & home heating fuel are very close to the same thing and are many time interchangable, yet there are countless accounts of CO deaths from improperly vented heaters. Rest assured, fire up a diesel generator in an enclosed cabin and I'll be placing my money on the fact that you won't be waking up in the morning.
Diesel & home heating fuel are very close to the same thing and are many time interchangable, yet there are countless accounts of CO deaths from improperly vented heaters. Rest assured, fire up a diesel generator in an enclosed cabin and I'll be placing my money on the fact that you won't be waking up in the morning.
Phil that's just like sticking the exhaust hose in
your MOUTH. That's not a fair comparison of diesel vs. gasoline CO emissions. The preconception of diesel exhaust is that it must be dirtier than gasoline exhaust. Well, it depends. Which components are we seeing and smelling? It's kinda like a propane fired fork truck in a warehouse. Different emissions there too. Gasoline is the big danger. And we all know that. That's yet another reason we have diesel engines in our boats.
your MOUTH. That's not a fair comparison of diesel vs. gasoline CO emissions. The preconception of diesel exhaust is that it must be dirtier than gasoline exhaust. Well, it depends. Which components are we seeing and smelling? It's kinda like a propane fired fork truck in a warehouse. Different emissions there too. Gasoline is the big danger. And we all know that. That's yet another reason we have diesel engines in our boats.
hard to find comparisons
Diesel-powered lift trucks. Diesel-powered lift trucks generate significantly less CO than equivalently sized propane or gasoline trucks. http://www.plantservices.com/articles/2007/097.html CO emissions by diesel vehicles are minimal, primarily because of the excess air used in the diesel combustion cycle. Hence, the following discussion is limited to gasoline vehicles http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:uBglBiDnrGIJ:books.nap.edu/openbook.php%3Frecord_id%3D10378%26page%3D19+carbon+monoxide+emissions+diesel+gasoline&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=24&gl=us&lr=lang_en
Diesel-powered lift trucks. Diesel-powered lift trucks generate significantly less CO than equivalently sized propane or gasoline trucks. http://www.plantservices.com/articles/2007/097.html CO emissions by diesel vehicles are minimal, primarily because of the excess air used in the diesel combustion cycle. Hence, the following discussion is limited to gasoline vehicles http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:uBglBiDnrGIJ:books.nap.edu/openbook.php%3Frecord_id%3D10378%26page%3D19+carbon+monoxide+emissions+diesel+gasoline&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=24&gl=us&lr=lang_en
Orig ?
Fred, the original question didn't ask which was cleaner, it asked if diesel fumes were a danger. I have to question what kind of bizzar ideas GuyH is having with a question like that. The fact is improper venting a diesel fumes can put you to sleep for a very long time. Now, which one will put you to sleep the fastest? Does it matter?
Fred, the original question didn't ask which was cleaner, it asked if diesel fumes were a danger. I have to question what kind of bizzar ideas GuyH is having with a question like that. The fact is improper venting a diesel fumes can put you to sleep for a very long time. Now, which one will put you to sleep the fastest? Does it matter?
Not to me Phil,
I was just responding to the blanket statement that diesel engines put out TWICE the CO as gas engines and that there seems to be NO RECORD of anyone ever being killed by diesel CO.
I was just responding to the blanket statement that diesel engines put out TWICE the CO as gas engines and that there seems to be NO RECORD of anyone ever being killed by diesel CO.
Dont know from statistics....
I'll bet if Carbon Monoxide dont kill you, the lack of oxygen will. Ventillation will always be a big factor
I'll bet if Carbon Monoxide dont kill you, the lack of oxygen will. Ventillation will always be a big factor
CO the silent killer
Hi Tony, Same ol crowd here hey? You still on the rigs? Fred, et al are right diesel does not emitt much CO; gas, LPG, fossil fuel heater all cause more. On the other hand why take any chances?? It often is caused by being anchored next to another boat that has a gas gen-set or idling engine. Recently went through an ABYC class where carbon monoxide was discussed and taught at length.BTW it will become a CFR USCG law as ABYC recommends to have a working CO detector aboard mounted about head high when seated in speeping quarters and main salon. Amongst the many stories we heard is one that stands out: a fellow was on a small sailboat anchored, no engine, heater, or co emitting device of any kind.He went into his head with a magazine and wound up DEAD! A power vessel was anchore nearby idling, the fumes, bore over and up in through the sink drain which was above the water line, filled up the small enclosed head and killed him. Many charts and graphs on this subject, but a lot of CO = small time ( Call it one or two breaths) a little = a long time, call it while you were sleeping you were underway to heaven...
Hi Tony, Same ol crowd here hey? You still on the rigs? Fred, et al are right diesel does not emitt much CO; gas, LPG, fossil fuel heater all cause more. On the other hand why take any chances?? It often is caused by being anchored next to another boat that has a gas gen-set or idling engine. Recently went through an ABYC class where carbon monoxide was discussed and taught at length.BTW it will become a CFR USCG law as ABYC recommends to have a working CO detector aboard mounted about head high when seated in speeping quarters and main salon. Amongst the many stories we heard is one that stands out: a fellow was on a small sailboat anchored, no engine, heater, or co emitting device of any kind.He went into his head with a magazine and wound up DEAD! A power vessel was anchore nearby idling, the fumes, bore over and up in through the sink drain which was above the water line, filled up the small enclosed head and killed him. Many charts and graphs on this subject, but a lot of CO = small time ( Call it one or two breaths) a little = a long time, call it while you were sleeping you were underway to heaven...
Hi Captn Ron.
Yup still on the rigs. How u be? One of the primary side effects of CO poisoning or oxygen deprivation is that IT PUTS YOU TO SLEEP first. It dont get any more silent than that. No real warning involved. Aside from oxygen deprivation and CO poisoning there are lots of other lethal gases that humans can not smell. To give you an idea how scarey it could be, consider this.....the number one cause of death inside confined spaces, such as large tanks is RESCUE EFFORT. Thats right. More rescuers die than the actual number of victims they intend to save. How's that for a statistic? Tony B
Yup still on the rigs. How u be? One of the primary side effects of CO poisoning or oxygen deprivation is that IT PUTS YOU TO SLEEP first. It dont get any more silent than that. No real warning involved. Aside from oxygen deprivation and CO poisoning there are lots of other lethal gases that humans can not smell. To give you an idea how scarey it could be, consider this.....the number one cause of death inside confined spaces, such as large tanks is RESCUE EFFORT. Thats right. More rescuers die than the actual number of victims they intend to save. How's that for a statistic? Tony B
- Status