Cleating (the main) at the mast
- Thread starter ScubaGuy2
- Start date
Samurai douse?
Seriously though, OP is a new sailor so they're probably not going to be flying a kite.
Wow, talk about a lot of responses. 
First, I just want to say, my current setup is set up that way because that's how the previous owner did it.
While I'm inclined to try it without the stopper knot, I honestly don't think either option would prevent dropping the sail rapidly. Remove coiled line from cleat, uncleat and yank the sail down. Option 2 specifically would come down just as fast as if it wasn't through the center of the cleat. Option 1 has the risk of catching a knuckle or coil in the line. I can see where that could be a problem.
I could very well be using the wrong line. I have no idea the type of line, but it appears to be some sort of double braid about 8mm in thickness. I don't know where it came from, or how old it is. It feels good in the hand, soft, supple. It may very well have too much stretch. However, when the sail is fully raised, there is only 3'ish of that line being used. That halyard is almost all cable, with a the tiniest bit of line in use when cleated.
As far as the length? Is there some sort of rule of thumb on how long it should be, assuming it's cleated at the mast?
Now, I'm wondering if this is how the PO did it or if maybe the marina did this when they removed the mast from the boat to store it for the winter. All of our halyards were done this way.
Anyone worried about the tidiness of our lines, fear not. As detail oriented as @Siren is, she would never let my lines get untidy.
First, I just want to say, my current setup is set up that way because that's how the previous owner did it. While I'm inclined to try it without the stopper knot, I honestly don't think either option would prevent dropping the sail rapidly. Remove coiled line from cleat, uncleat and yank the sail down. Option 2 specifically would come down just as fast as if it wasn't through the center of the cleat.
Option 1 has the risk of catching a knuckle or coil in the line. I can see where that could be a problem. I could very well be using the wrong line. I have no idea the type of line, but it appears to be some sort of double braid about 8mm in thickness. I don't know where it came from, or how old it is. It feels good in the hand, soft, supple.
It may very well have too much stretch. However, when the sail is fully raised, there is only 3'ish of that line being used. That halyard is almost all cable, with a the tiniest bit of line in use when cleated. As far as the length? Is there some sort of rule of thumb on how long it should be, assuming it's cleated at the mast?
Now, I'm wondering if this is how the PO did it or if maybe the marina did this when they removed the mast from the boat to store it for the winter.
All of our halyards were done this way.Anyone worried about the tidiness of our lines, fear not. As detail oriented as @Siren is, she would never let my lines get untidy.
Anyone worried about the tidiness of our lines, fear not. As detail oriented as @Siren is, she would never let my lines get untidy.
Boy, you got that right!! This girl runs a tight ship. Detail oriented, OCD, anal retentiveness....whatever you call it, I like pretty lines, nice and tidy.
There are a ton of ways to run halyards (internal, external, wire like yours, line all the way, tapered synthetics) but if your sails raise to the masthead and come back down smoothly, and the halyards are in good physical shape (no splitting strands on the wire or corrosion, and the double-braid and splices are in good shape) you're probably fine.Wow, talk about a lot of responses.
While I'm inclined to try it without the stopper knot, I honestly don't think either option would prevent dropping the sail rapidly. Remove coiled line from cleat, uncleat and yank the sail down. Option 2 specifically would come down just as fast as if it wasn't through the center of the cleat.
I could very well be using the wrong line. I have no idea the type of line, but it appears to be some sort of double braid about 8mm in thickness. I don't know where it came from, or how old it is. It feels good in the hand, soft, supple.
As far as the length? Is there some sort of rule of thumb on how long it should be, assuming it's cleated at the mast?
Now, I'm wondering if this is how the PO did it or if maybe the marina did this when they removed the mast from the boat to store it for the winter.
8MM is 5/16 IIRC, which is a pretty normal size for a halyard on our boats, and having the wire come to 3' from the cleat sounds about right. The wire won't stretch, and the 3' of loaded rope won't stretch enough to matter.
I don't know how long of a halyard you would need for mast cleating (beside mast height x2 + a few feet ), but if you're looking at new halyards I'd strongly suggest looking at a adding couple of blocks and running them to the cockpit. Stingy Sailor has a great article on leading lines back and includes recommended lengths. He's got a very well considered boat, and I use his project page as a handy index of C22 how-tos. Anytime I'm curious about how something could be rigged, or upgraded, I load that page and Ctrl+F and boom, there's a great article.
Oh, and line choice is going to be as much religion as science for us. Regular double braid is probably strong enough for the loads we see on our halyards. Any dyneema or dyneema blend will be more than enough. You can probably choose by which has the prettiest cover and be okay as long as you're not buying hardware store rope.
That is precisely why I, personally, could not stand to have the halyard run through the center hole of the cleat. It's ... it's ... WRONG!! That's not how you tie a cleat hitch!! Just looking at your pictures is going to keep me awake tonight!!
LOL ..
But, this is not meant to criticize to anyone who feels differently. It's all good. My halyards are run aft anyway, so if I wake up screaming tonight, I'll be comforted.
All my control lines are Samson Yacht Braid. For no other reason than because I like the name.
@Gene Neill -That is precisely why I, personally, could not stand to have the halyard run through the center hole of the cleat. It's ... it's ... WRONG!! That's not how you tie a cleat hitch!! Just looking at your pictures is going to keep me awake tonight!!
I like tidy lines, but all I know is how to keep it tidy in the way the previous owner did it. Like @ScubaGuy2 said, this is the way the boat was received with all our halyards running through the center of their own respective cleats.We had little inclination that this one question would stir the pot and that people would have such strong opinions.
If there is a way to improve, I am super teachable and way more interested in learning how to better our setup than to dig my heals into the dirt and say "I'm right." 
You are right. The stopper knot does not interfere with lowering the sail.
When it is time to change the halyard, you will be advised to ditch the steel wire and go to 100% synthetic fiber rope. There is nothing wrong with that, but be aware that the masthead sheave was chosen to be used with the steel rope. A fiber rope that is large enough to be comfortable for hand-hauling the sail may be too large for the sheave. I stuck with the wire rope because it works just fine and I'm stingy.
I have opted to not bring halyards back to the cockpit. I need to mess with them just twice per outing: once up and once down. While sailing, I like to keep them out of the way and not cluttering up the cockpit. Also, I added jib lead travelers and needed the space for the control lines that do need to come back to the cockpit.
When replacing the old wire to rope halyards on my Catalina 27, the small width sheaves were an issue, since they allow just over 1/4 inch diameter line. The masthead fitting restricts the replacement of wider sheaves. My solution was to install "tapered" halyards, using a 3/16" dyneema core which is covered with a 5/16" polyester sleeve for the handling and cleating portion of the line.
The splices are very simple.... after snaking the core through the cover, you would "bury splice" the cover's end into the core to perform the "taper" or transition to core only. At the shackle end, a single braid eye splice... I prefer the large diameter "luggage tag" splice... would complete the project.
The good news is that the dyneema core is way stronger than wire... and if you shop around the cost of materials will be considerably less than the same length pre made 1/8 wire to 3/8 rope halyards. Also they look good and your sailing friends will be envious. heh, heh
Tapered high modulus sheets are cool as hell but there is at least one drawback that I am personally experienced with: the covered half of the line weighs a lot more than the core only leading to an unbalanced equation when the halyard is unshackled. They're really easy to sky.When replacing the old wire to rope halyards on my Catalina 27, the small width sheaves were an issue, since they allow just over 1/4 inch diameter line. The masthead fitting restricts the replacement of wider sheaves. My solution was to install "tapered" halyards, using a 3/16" dyneema core which is covered with a 5/16" polyester sleeve for the handling and cleating portion of the line.
Just today I reefed once and then twice when the wind picked up, and dropped the sails to anchor in a cove, then a very quick strike when sailing into the dock. Having the halyards in the cockpit is a nice convienence when working with a couple new crew members or just keeping excess lines off the mast, which already has a lot of stuff going on.
Haha for sure! I love it, used to work on gaff rigged schooners, so many lines to manage, such a blast