Any advise on the best way to purge the fresh water system after winter storage. We seem to have 'pink anitfreeze' residue through most of the year.
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Read "Fresh Water Maintenance" article
in the Reference Library in the Head Mistress forum. It gives complete instructions for recommissioning the fresh water system. And it should be done every spring as part of your overall recommissioning, whether there's anti-freeze in the system or not.
in the Reference Library in the Head Mistress forum. It gives complete instructions for recommissioning the fresh water system. And it should be done every spring as part of your overall recommissioning, whether there's anti-freeze in the system or not.
Keep rinsing it
I put about 4-5 gallons of water in the tank and then run it out. Do this 3-4 times and it cleans out. Then when I fill the tank (70 gallons) for the first time, I add about 4 ounces of chlorine bleach to the tank. During the course of the season we use ample amounts of water, so the cycle keeps the water fresh.
I put about 4-5 gallons of water in the tank and then run it out. Do this 3-4 times and it cleans out. Then when I fill the tank (70 gallons) for the first time, I add about 4 ounces of chlorine bleach to the tank. During the course of the season we use ample amounts of water, so the cycle keeps the water fresh.
Related Question- Water systems
I’m a long time Backpacker. I go hide in the Rockies to get away from the summers here in Texas. While pursuing this “other” pastime I developed a healthy respect for water purification technology and have installed the best (primitive by backpacking standards) available filter in my boat’s fresh water system. Do the rest of you also use filters in your fresh water systems (don’t tell me you still use chemicals!)? And, given the techno level we backpackers use now, why hasn’t this been ported to the boating community. With my water kit, I could pump water right out of the lake and it would be pure and safe to drink. Filtering fron the tank would be a piece of cake.
I’m a long time Backpacker. I go hide in the Rockies to get away from the summers here in Texas. While pursuing this “other” pastime I developed a healthy respect for water purification technology and have installed the best (primitive by backpacking standards) available filter in my boat’s fresh water system. Do the rest of you also use filters in your fresh water systems (don’t tell me you still use chemicals!)? And, given the techno level we backpackers use now, why hasn’t this been ported to the boating community. With my water kit, I could pump water right out of the lake and it would be pure and safe to drink. Filtering fron the tank would be a piece of cake.
Biggest problem with onboard water, Greg
Several weeks of storage in fairly large quantities, and a lot of plumbing. 99% of fresh water problems don't occur in the tank, but in that plumbing...caused by critters that thrive in damp dark places. Not a problem that backpackers have to deal with. Read the article...I think it'll give you a better idea of the problem. Filters, btw, don't kill off the critters...and they don't solve the problem. All they do is mask the problem by filtering out the taste and smell.
Several weeks of storage in fairly large quantities, and a lot of plumbing. 99% of fresh water problems don't occur in the tank, but in that plumbing...caused by critters that thrive in damp dark places. Not a problem that backpackers have to deal with. Read the article...I think it'll give you a better idea of the problem. Filters, btw, don't kill off the critters...and they don't solve the problem. All they do is mask the problem by filtering out the taste and smell.
Paul, you might as well skip the 4 oz of bleach
...'cuz it's not enough to clean out the system, and after about 24 hours, all that's left of it are its corrosive properties...which means that adding a little each fill does more harm than good too. An annual or semi-annual (in particularly warm climates) recommissioning according to the directions in the article does the least damage to the rubber and neoprene parts in the system and does use enough chlorine to kill off the critters in the plumbing.
...'cuz it's not enough to clean out the system, and after about 24 hours, all that's left of it are its corrosive properties...which means that adding a little each fill does more harm than good too. An annual or semi-annual (in particularly warm climates) recommissioning according to the directions in the article does the least damage to the rubber and neoprene parts in the system and does use enough chlorine to kill off the critters in the plumbing.
Peggy...thanks
Thanks for the info. Here I was thinking that chlorine was the great purifier and instead I may have been causing slow damage. Fortunately, like I said, I only did a chlorine treatment at the beginning of each season. I better go read your article.
Thanks for the info. Here I was thinking that chlorine was the great purifier and instead I may have been causing slow damage. Fortunately, like I said, I only did a chlorine treatment at the beginning of each season. I better go read your article.
Bleach and pumps
I have read in the Shurflo manual not to use bleach in the system. Will keeping it under pressure for 24hrs. or less ruin the pump?
I have read in the Shurflo manual not to use bleach in the system. Will keeping it under pressure for 24hrs. or less ruin the pump?
Hey Peggie, not so!
As I said, water treatment has been moving right along in the B/P world. For years now we've had Iodine matrix filter systems. Your basic coke can sized filter system has 4 filters. It works like this - Filter 1 -removes the big chunks of matter down to just visible to naked eye. Filter 2 removes at the molecular level. This strips out heavy metals, pesticides, bacteria and the other bigger life forms. Filter 3 - Iodine Matrix kills viruses lurking in all free running water now days. Filter 4 - Carbon filter to remove any possible residue form the Iodine Matrix. The result is water actually cleaner than what comes out of your tap at home. The average filter cartridge set does 500 - 1000 gals. The deal is, in backpacking (especially off path type) a water system failure can make you very sick. Depending on where you are, sick may equal dead. Exposure and scavengers aint a pretty way to go! We are very interested in healthy water and quite a bit farther along than you might think.
As I said, water treatment has been moving right along in the B/P world. For years now we've had Iodine matrix filter systems. Your basic coke can sized filter system has 4 filters. It works like this - Filter 1 -removes the big chunks of matter down to just visible to naked eye. Filter 2 removes at the molecular level. This strips out heavy metals, pesticides, bacteria and the other bigger life forms. Filter 3 - Iodine Matrix kills viruses lurking in all free running water now days. Filter 4 - Carbon filter to remove any possible residue form the Iodine Matrix. The result is water actually cleaner than what comes out of your tap at home. The average filter cartridge set does 500 - 1000 gals. The deal is, in backpacking (especially off path type) a water system failure can make you very sick. Depending on where you are, sick may equal dead. Exposure and scavengers aint a pretty way to go! We are very interested in healthy water and quite a bit farther along than you might think.
Once or twice a year won't hurt the pump
Chlorine, even in the small amounts in chlorinated water, is corrosive and harmful to rubber and neoprene...the question is, how much. We aren't gonna stop filling out tanks with "city" water...or flushing our toilets with it (if we have fresh water toilets)...and over the years it's gonna take its toll on the rubber and neoprene parts in our boats. And an annual recommissioning is gonna do a tiny bit more...but not enough to make a significant difference in the life of the pump. Certainly far less than adding a bit to each fill, which doesn't do any good anyway unless you add so much that your water smells and tastes like an over-chlorinated swimming pool. The annual recommissioning can be enough to finish off a diaphragm that's on its last legs, but it would have failed within weeks anyway. Nothing you do is completely without effect...but the method described in fresh water maintenance does the least amount of damage and the most good.
Chlorine, even in the small amounts in chlorinated water, is corrosive and harmful to rubber and neoprene...the question is, how much. We aren't gonna stop filling out tanks with "city" water...or flushing our toilets with it (if we have fresh water toilets)...and over the years it's gonna take its toll on the rubber and neoprene parts in our boats. And an annual recommissioning is gonna do a tiny bit more...but not enough to make a significant difference in the life of the pump. Certainly far less than adding a bit to each fill, which doesn't do any good anyway unless you add so much that your water smells and tastes like an over-chlorinated swimming pool. The annual recommissioning can be enough to finish off a diaphragm that's on its last legs, but it would have failed within weeks anyway. Nothing you do is completely without effect...but the method described in fresh water maintenance does the least amount of damage and the most good.
Agree with Peggie
I agree with Peggie that the Chlorine Shock Treatment is the best way to clean out your tank and lines of all the "critters" that like to set up housekeeping there. I had a 29.5 for 4 seasons, before trading up to a 340 and I used Peggie's approach mid-season to prevent the critters. Prior to taking delivery of our 29.5, I read an article, Sail I think, that talked about using Hydrogen Peroxide, H2O2, in place of chlorine. I liked the idea and used it religiously. It called for using 1oz H2O2 to every 10 gallons of water. While the 29.5 had a smaller tank, 40 gallons, I added H2O2 every time I added water. Given the fact that H2O2 and water are very similar I always added at least 4oz at every fill-up. During the 4 seasons that we had the boat we never had "foul" smelling water, it was always clear and never tasted bad. Needless to say, I am going to continue to use H2O2 with our new 340. Has anyone else ever heard of using H2O2 for this? If so what were your results? To answer the question about antifreeze taste. Putting small quantities of water (5 or 6 gallons) in the tank and flushing it through several times at each outlet has always worked for me. When I winterize the boat I always by-pass the hot water heater and drain it. Most water heaters are at least 6 gallons, this not only saves you money in antifreeze but means there is less antifreeze in the system to be flushed out in the spring. Hope this helps.
I agree with Peggie that the Chlorine Shock Treatment is the best way to clean out your tank and lines of all the "critters" that like to set up housekeeping there. I had a 29.5 for 4 seasons, before trading up to a 340 and I used Peggie's approach mid-season to prevent the critters. Prior to taking delivery of our 29.5, I read an article, Sail I think, that talked about using Hydrogen Peroxide, H2O2, in place of chlorine. I liked the idea and used it religiously. It called for using 1oz H2O2 to every 10 gallons of water. While the 29.5 had a smaller tank, 40 gallons, I added H2O2 every time I added water. Given the fact that H2O2 and water are very similar I always added at least 4oz at every fill-up. During the 4 seasons that we had the boat we never had "foul" smelling water, it was always clear and never tasted bad. Needless to say, I am going to continue to use H2O2 with our new 340. Has anyone else ever heard of using H2O2 for this? If so what were your results? To answer the question about antifreeze taste. Putting small quantities of water (5 or 6 gallons) in the tank and flushing it through several times at each outlet has always worked for me. When I winterize the boat I always by-pass the hot water heater and drain it. Most water heaters are at least 6 gallons, this not only saves you money in antifreeze but means there is less antifreeze in the system to be flushed out in the spring. Hope this helps.
Chlorine is not acceptable
As a chemical engineer by training and director of EPA's Hazardous Waste programs in New England, I would like to suggest a better method. But first, it bears repeating that chlorine, although probably effective if mixed with sufficient residual levels for the requisite contact time, may be effecitve but also may cause far more significant health concerns. Conventional wisdom not withstanding, chlorine if used improperly (and it usually is) is one of those "the cure is worse than the disease" examples. Any solution with free chlorine will kill certain bacteria and some molds but will simultaneously form low leves of chlorinated hydrocardons and thereby create potentially harmful compounds which can be ingested and inhaled. A far preferable and safer approach is the use of peroxide such as common hydrogen peroxide. The household variety is a 2% solution which isn't strong enough but more concentrated forms are readily available and should be the only bactericide of choice. What I recommend is the use of a 20% solution mixed at a 1:20 ratio in the tank(s) and plumbing and left for a short period - as little as 15 minutes will be effective. At that concentration, the solution will not adversely affect aluminum, steel or anything else and will disinfect the tank(s) without causing toxic by-products
As a chemical engineer by training and director of EPA's Hazardous Waste programs in New England, I would like to suggest a better method. But first, it bears repeating that chlorine, although probably effective if mixed with sufficient residual levels for the requisite contact time, may be effecitve but also may cause far more significant health concerns. Conventional wisdom not withstanding, chlorine if used improperly (and it usually is) is one of those "the cure is worse than the disease" examples. Any solution with free chlorine will kill certain bacteria and some molds but will simultaneously form low leves of chlorinated hydrocardons and thereby create potentially harmful compounds which can be ingested and inhaled. A far preferable and safer approach is the use of peroxide such as common hydrogen peroxide. The household variety is a 2% solution which isn't strong enough but more concentrated forms are readily available and should be the only bactericide of choice. What I recommend is the use of a 20% solution mixed at a 1:20 ratio in the tank(s) and plumbing and left for a short period - as little as 15 minutes will be effective. At that concentration, the solution will not adversely affect aluminum, steel or anything else and will disinfect the tank(s) without causing toxic by-products
It's not a matter of disinfecting, Don...
At least not for the 99% of us who fill our tanks with chlorinated "city" water. The molds and fungi that grow in the plumbing won't make you sick, they just make the water smell and taste foul. And 99% of the problem doesn't occur in the tank, but in the hoses between the tank and the faucets. Chlorine is about the only the thing that cleans 'em out of the plumbing. If you'll read our irections for cleaning out the system, you'll note that they call for thoroughly and completely rinsing it all out of the system...and I do my best to discourage people from adding any to each fill. Btw...(I've never been able to resist pulling the devil's tail)...'twasn't your department of the EPA that exempted 100 New England cities and towns from meeting pollution standards because their sewage treatment plants are inadequate or too antiquated to meet them, was it?
))
At least not for the 99% of us who fill our tanks with chlorinated "city" water. The molds and fungi that grow in the plumbing won't make you sick, they just make the water smell and taste foul. And 99% of the problem doesn't occur in the tank, but in the hoses between the tank and the faucets. Chlorine is about the only the thing that cleans 'em out of the plumbing. If you'll read our irections for cleaning out the system, you'll note that they call for thoroughly and completely rinsing it all out of the system...and I do my best to discourage people from adding any to each fill. Btw...(I've never been able to resist pulling the devil's tail)...'twasn't your department of the EPA that exempted 100 New England cities and towns from meeting pollution standards because their sewage treatment plants are inadequate or too antiquated to meet them, was it?
))Hydrogen Peroxide??????
Peggy knows her stuff, no doubt and proved time and again, but tell me more about the hydrogen peroxide. My tank is super clean, but how do I disinfect the plumbing without damaging rubber pump diaphrams?
Peggy knows her stuff, no doubt and proved time and again, but tell me more about the hydrogen peroxide. My tank is super clean, but how do I disinfect the plumbing without damaging rubber pump diaphrams?
Hello Don? Helllloooo?
Seems that Don has grown silent in response to Peggy's question about EPA exemptions of New England clean water reqmts.
Seems that Don has grown silent in response to Peggy's question about EPA exemptions of New England clean water reqmts.
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