Getting close to retirement and the big cruise. I have sailed Hunter and Catalina coastal but never in bluewater. I would appreciate opinions on the possibility of a circumnavigation on a Hunter. Thank you for your time. Vernon
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Many have done it.
Click on link below to get started. Then search "Forum Archives" for many discussions on the subject. Have no plans for going around but would not hesitate to take my H37C(1979) out there.
Click on link below to get started. Then search "Forum Archives" for many discussions on the subject. Have no plans for going around but would not hesitate to take my H37C(1979) out there.
Can be done
People have repeatedly proven the boats can do it. I think the biggest issue isn't construction or seaworthiness (which is as good or better than other production boats, IMHO), but design. Hunters are designed with input from owners who, in most cases, use the boats differently. As a result, Hunter has maximized cockpit ammenities, accommodations, ease of sailing, and other features that are perfect for me... but may not be the very best for extended offshore work. You'll find other boats that are truly designed for cooking in seaways, sleeping in sea berths, with narrow beams for good handholds, small cockpits, etc. They're not as popular, don't have the production scale, and will cost substantially more. But they are designed for ocean crossings rather than general family sailing. If you're absolutely sure that's what you're going to do with your boat you may want to broaden your search, if you can afford to.
People have repeatedly proven the boats can do it. I think the biggest issue isn't construction or seaworthiness (which is as good or better than other production boats, IMHO), but design. Hunters are designed with input from owners who, in most cases, use the boats differently. As a result, Hunter has maximized cockpit ammenities, accommodations, ease of sailing, and other features that are perfect for me... but may not be the very best for extended offshore work. You'll find other boats that are truly designed for cooking in seaways, sleeping in sea berths, with narrow beams for good handholds, small cockpits, etc. They're not as popular, don't have the production scale, and will cost substantially more. But they are designed for ocean crossings rather than general family sailing. If you're absolutely sure that's what you're going to do with your boat you may want to broaden your search, if you can afford to.
Phil Has Made Good Points
The Catalina 27 is often mentioned when it comes to good boat designs and I suspect the older Cherubini Hunters would fall into that catagory.
The Catalina 27 is often mentioned when it comes to good boat designs and I suspect the older Cherubini Hunters would fall into that catagory.
i agree with phil..
while many hunters have successfully completed extended bluewater cruises in heavy weather, they are primarily designed for coastal/islands cruising which is 95% of the sailboat market..(the hc50 is an exception to this comment)...if you plan bluewater cruising, i would seem to make more sense to buy a boat primarily designed for that purpose...this is in no way a criticism of hunters or their construction...i'm very happy with my 40.5, which is a wonderfully designed boat for coastal and islands cruising..
while many hunters have successfully completed extended bluewater cruises in heavy weather, they are primarily designed for coastal/islands cruising which is 95% of the sailboat market..(the hc50 is an exception to this comment)...if you plan bluewater cruising, i would seem to make more sense to buy a boat primarily designed for that purpose...this is in no way a criticism of hunters or their construction...i'm very happy with my 40.5, which is a wonderfully designed boat for coastal and islands cruising..
Always dream with eyes wide shut
Vernon, The key issue here, as emphasized in Phil's last paragraph, is: before you spend your money on a proven cruising design you better be really determined to go cruising. The main reason is that there are basically 2 types of boats that are truly designed for bluewater work: the heavy full-keeled "crab crushers" (the Hans Christians, the Gozzards, the CTs, the Westsails, etc.) that can often be bought used for a reasonable price (or even for a song if you are willing to fix one up) and the performance cruisers (e.g. the Hinckleys, Oysters or Dashew designs) that are well out of the price range of most ordinary folk and require you to sell home, wife and soul in order to even get ones hands on a "project boat" of that pedigree. In both cases you are going to a very unhappy camper if you find yourself doing only the kind of coastal sailing which a Hunter can give you at 5x lower cost than the thoroughbred and at 5x more fun than the crab crusher. From your earlier posts you appear to have had your eyes on the Passage 420. Make that a slightly older but carefully maintained Passage 42 to get a vessel with toerails, a reasonable-sized anchor locker and a doable seabunk conversion and you can at least make it safely to the Caribbean, Hawaii or even Bermuda and back without completely having to rebuild your Hunter first. Chances are that after these first offshore excursions your wife will neither want to part with you nor your beloved Hunter and that you may therefore decide to upgrade her a bit for even more demanding adventures. Finally, try to get out there and sail, sail, sail (rather than sit in chicken harbor till the weather is just right) in order to hone your skills. By the time you decide to start the "big one" you should have formed a strong bond with your vessel. However, in this mutual relationship you should be the one who takes care of the other. I always feel a little sorry for sailors who keep repeating that "their vessels should take care of them" and therefore end up with a certified battle ship that traces it's bloodlines via the Colin Archers directly to the square-riggers of yore. When we set out on our first 2-month coastal summer cruise to the Sea of Cortez in our Hunter Legend 43 "Rivendel II" in 1993, after sharpening our teeth on the Channel Islands for a few seasons, we found the marinas of La Paz, Puerto Vallarta and Mazatlan to be lined with impressive looking, lovingly varnished heavy cruisers and their recently retired owners who had taken several years to make it down from San Diego to their current haven of refuge and who seldom ventured outside the harbor anymore, their beautiful dreams of South Pacific adventures and circumnavigations shriveled up long ago in the hot Mexican sun. Just keep that in mind when you choose your dream vessel
)) See you out there, Flying Dutchman
Vernon, The key issue here, as emphasized in Phil's last paragraph, is: before you spend your money on a proven cruising design you better be really determined to go cruising. The main reason is that there are basically 2 types of boats that are truly designed for bluewater work: the heavy full-keeled "crab crushers" (the Hans Christians, the Gozzards, the CTs, the Westsails, etc.) that can often be bought used for a reasonable price (or even for a song if you are willing to fix one up) and the performance cruisers (e.g. the Hinckleys, Oysters or Dashew designs) that are well out of the price range of most ordinary folk and require you to sell home, wife and soul in order to even get ones hands on a "project boat" of that pedigree. In both cases you are going to a very unhappy camper if you find yourself doing only the kind of coastal sailing which a Hunter can give you at 5x lower cost than the thoroughbred and at 5x more fun than the crab crusher. From your earlier posts you appear to have had your eyes on the Passage 420. Make that a slightly older but carefully maintained Passage 42 to get a vessel with toerails, a reasonable-sized anchor locker and a doable seabunk conversion and you can at least make it safely to the Caribbean, Hawaii or even Bermuda and back without completely having to rebuild your Hunter first. Chances are that after these first offshore excursions your wife will neither want to part with you nor your beloved Hunter and that you may therefore decide to upgrade her a bit for even more demanding adventures. Finally, try to get out there and sail, sail, sail (rather than sit in chicken harbor till the weather is just right) in order to hone your skills. By the time you decide to start the "big one" you should have formed a strong bond with your vessel. However, in this mutual relationship you should be the one who takes care of the other. I always feel a little sorry for sailors who keep repeating that "their vessels should take care of them" and therefore end up with a certified battle ship that traces it's bloodlines via the Colin Archers directly to the square-riggers of yore. When we set out on our first 2-month coastal summer cruise to the Sea of Cortez in our Hunter Legend 43 "Rivendel II" in 1993, after sharpening our teeth on the Channel Islands for a few seasons, we found the marinas of La Paz, Puerto Vallarta and Mazatlan to be lined with impressive looking, lovingly varnished heavy cruisers and their recently retired owners who had taken several years to make it down from San Diego to their current haven of refuge and who seldom ventured outside the harbor anymore, their beautiful dreams of South Pacific adventures and circumnavigations shriveled up long ago in the hot Mexican sun. Just keep that in mind when you choose your dream vessel
)) See you out there, Flying DutchmanAgree with Hank
I would add a couple of points. Even in a circumnavigation, much of your sailing will be fairly short range, plus, if you enjoy sailing, you will want to simply take your boat out for daysails. Both of these facts mitigate against the crab crusher, and in favor of a boat with decent performance, including to windward. I would suggest that the Cherubinis included many more "sea boat" features than the modern Hunters, by the way. Phil is absolutely right when he says that the newer boats have been more tailored to the principal sailboat market. The old 33 came with a settee with leeboard, a usable pilot berth (many have been converted into bookshelves) and a nice quarter berth. Three sea berths on a 33 footer ain't bad. The 37 seems to be one tough vessel, too. I would also say that the vessel's preparation is as important as the vessel, but both of these factors are secondary to your OWN preparation. By the way, I have done quite a bit of offshore stuff in my own 33, and will be heading across the Pacific next spring. See you out there.
I would add a couple of points. Even in a circumnavigation, much of your sailing will be fairly short range, plus, if you enjoy sailing, you will want to simply take your boat out for daysails. Both of these facts mitigate against the crab crusher, and in favor of a boat with decent performance, including to windward. I would suggest that the Cherubinis included many more "sea boat" features than the modern Hunters, by the way. Phil is absolutely right when he says that the newer boats have been more tailored to the principal sailboat market. The old 33 came with a settee with leeboard, a usable pilot berth (many have been converted into bookshelves) and a nice quarter berth. Three sea berths on a 33 footer ain't bad. The 37 seems to be one tough vessel, too. I would also say that the vessel's preparation is as important as the vessel, but both of these factors are secondary to your OWN preparation. By the way, I have done quite a bit of offshore stuff in my own 33, and will be heading across the Pacific next spring. See you out there.
Size matters, so does experience
Vernon, I admire and in fact share your dream. A couple of things I recommend you do to prepare. One is to consider whether you should get a boat over about 30 feet. Read Pardey's Cost-Conscious Cruiser. Even if cost is no object for you. Issues of maintainability and handling. The other is don't wait till retirement to get out there and build skills especially in heavy weather! Agree with other respondents on this. Good luck!
Vernon, I admire and in fact share your dream. A couple of things I recommend you do to prepare. One is to consider whether you should get a boat over about 30 feet. Read Pardey's Cost-Conscious Cruiser. Even if cost is no object for you. Issues of maintainability and handling. The other is don't wait till retirement to get out there and build skills especially in heavy weather! Agree with other respondents on this. Good luck!
Bill - Don't buy over 30 feet??
Bill, you bring up a good point for discussion. I have heard the "keep it small" opinion before and have read excerpts of some of the Pardey's writings. I believe there may have been a time when that philosophy made sense - the gear was not as good as it is today, making boats over 30' tough to handle and there was a lot more to maintain on the exterior of a boat (read wood!!). But, my experience tells me that the larger boats are better. If chosen well, they will be more comfortable both in rough weather and for that 75% of the time spent at anchor or a dock. I wouldn't consider less than 35 ft. and I really think a good, well rigged, 40 footer is probably a good choice. I sail a 46 and my wife and myself have no more trouble handling her in all types of weather than we did with our 28 ft. Actually, I think the fatigue factor is less on this boat than it was on the 28 ft. because we worried more about what could happen to the smaller boat in big weather than we do now. I have also found that that minor indiscretion (ho ho) of leaving too much sail up for too long caused much more angst on the smaller boat - real quick broaches - while the 46 is much more forgiving - it has the 15 tons on it's side. If I changed boats again, one of my "must have" items is stable downwind capability. The boat we have now is much better downwind than our last 2 boats. The other boats were very fussy in big weather downwind - you had to pay attention every second or they would skitter about nearing a broach. This boat is rock solid - runs true and easy. I didn't even know there was a difference until we got this one, but it sure does make those downwind runs a lot less tiring. As far as maintenance is concerned, cruising boats of different lengths have a good deal of similarity in much of the required maintenance - for example, they all have one fridge, one water system, and usually one of a lot of other things. So for this stuff the maintenance is about the same. There are some items which are more costly - berthage, haul-outs, etc. but not necessarily more difficult. One last comment - I also believe that owners are more likely to self-maintain a smaller boat because they are not as intimidating. I don't think the larger boats can't be done, it just takes a little more time to get to know them. Good sailing, ROwen
Bill, you bring up a good point for discussion. I have heard the "keep it small" opinion before and have read excerpts of some of the Pardey's writings. I believe there may have been a time when that philosophy made sense - the gear was not as good as it is today, making boats over 30' tough to handle and there was a lot more to maintain on the exterior of a boat (read wood!!). But, my experience tells me that the larger boats are better. If chosen well, they will be more comfortable both in rough weather and for that 75% of the time spent at anchor or a dock. I wouldn't consider less than 35 ft. and I really think a good, well rigged, 40 footer is probably a good choice. I sail a 46 and my wife and myself have no more trouble handling her in all types of weather than we did with our 28 ft. Actually, I think the fatigue factor is less on this boat than it was on the 28 ft. because we worried more about what could happen to the smaller boat in big weather than we do now. I have also found that that minor indiscretion (ho ho) of leaving too much sail up for too long caused much more angst on the smaller boat - real quick broaches - while the 46 is much more forgiving - it has the 15 tons on it's side. If I changed boats again, one of my "must have" items is stable downwind capability. The boat we have now is much better downwind than our last 2 boats. The other boats were very fussy in big weather downwind - you had to pay attention every second or they would skitter about nearing a broach. This boat is rock solid - runs true and easy. I didn't even know there was a difference until we got this one, but it sure does make those downwind runs a lot less tiring. As far as maintenance is concerned, cruising boats of different lengths have a good deal of similarity in much of the required maintenance - for example, they all have one fridge, one water system, and usually one of a lot of other things. So for this stuff the maintenance is about the same. There are some items which are more costly - berthage, haul-outs, etc. but not necessarily more difficult. One last comment - I also believe that owners are more likely to self-maintain a smaller boat because they are not as intimidating. I don't think the larger boats can't be done, it just takes a little more time to get to know them. Good sailing, ROwen
Has crossed my mind, but still lake bound
I always wanted to take "Freebird" to the coast, and like many, she's never been in salt water, but after 20 years of sailing in fresh water, she's in great shape and one day..... Well, guess every sailor has seen the movie "The Dove". So, I dream of sailing the world too, and one day, even though now I have more reservations about crossing hundreds of miles of ocean than I did when I was younger, I would take her to the Bahamas or V. Islands in a heart beat. I feel my Hunter 33 is more boat than I am sailor. I do get her out in really strong blows, just minus the large seas.. we get maybe 4-5 footers on a rough day and she "comes alive" and handles great and actually feels better in the rougher conditions. Of coarse we never get anything like you would have crossing an ocean, but picking weather carefully, I think she and I would do ok. I do all my own work on her, bottom jobs, engine work, and I have done some fiberglass and wood work on her also. I have friends with much larger boats and they tend to hire out the jobs and it does cost alot more to maintain a larger boat than one in the 33 foot range. New boats never have too many repairs in the first 3 to 4 years, but let them get 20 years under their belt and you will find much to do. I vote for the 30-33 foot range for all things considered. Hope to see ya out there one day!
I always wanted to take "Freebird" to the coast, and like many, she's never been in salt water, but after 20 years of sailing in fresh water, she's in great shape and one day..... Well, guess every sailor has seen the movie "The Dove". So, I dream of sailing the world too, and one day, even though now I have more reservations about crossing hundreds of miles of ocean than I did when I was younger, I would take her to the Bahamas or V. Islands in a heart beat. I feel my Hunter 33 is more boat than I am sailor. I do get her out in really strong blows, just minus the large seas.. we get maybe 4-5 footers on a rough day and she "comes alive" and handles great and actually feels better in the rougher conditions. Of coarse we never get anything like you would have crossing an ocean, but picking weather carefully, I think she and I would do ok. I do all my own work on her, bottom jobs, engine work, and I have done some fiberglass and wood work on her also. I have friends with much larger boats and they tend to hire out the jobs and it does cost alot more to maintain a larger boat than one in the 33 foot range. New boats never have too many repairs in the first 3 to 4 years, but let them get 20 years under their belt and you will find much to do. I vote for the 30-33 foot range for all things considered. Hope to see ya out there one day!
The Big Step
Vernon, If your plans are truely to do a trip around the world then in my opinion a Hunter is the the right boat for the job. I love my Hunter 290 and while I don't plan to go aroud the world with her, at some point and time I want to take her out to Block Island, up to Rhode Island, maybe up to Maine, and perhaps to the Chesapeake Bay, maybe even the ICW to Florida. If I every to that much, and still love sailing (and still have a wife) then I might think of getting a blue water cruiser and doing a little more sailing. Perhaps a more step by step approach is in order.
Vernon, If your plans are truely to do a trip around the world then in my opinion a Hunter is the the right boat for the job. I love my Hunter 290 and while I don't plan to go aroud the world with her, at some point and time I want to take her out to Block Island, up to Rhode Island, maybe up to Maine, and perhaps to the Chesapeake Bay, maybe even the ICW to Florida. If I every to that much, and still love sailing (and still have a wife) then I might think of getting a blue water cruiser and doing a little more sailing. Perhaps a more step by step approach is in order.
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