Circuit panel wiring question.

[Wm. Gill]

Working on rewiring the mast and came up with a couple things. I will post (a rant?) in a separate post about the other item. I have a wiring diagram I think I got from someone in this forum, and am trying to straighten out some wiring "oddities." The wire (white/red) to the anchor light is wired to the switch/fuse panel, but there is a couple of spade splitters (1 female to 2 mail spade terminals). The panel has a Dymo label over it saying "inst. power" (see pic). Don't want to remove it because I don't have a Dymo if I want to replace it. So a couple questions. First, does anyone know what the actual label (beneath the Dymo tape) says? And shouldn't the anchor light be switched on/off independent of anything else?
Answers to both of these will help me figure out the best correction w/o further adding to abnormalities.

 

[ggrizzard]

Don't know your panel, but to your last question: YES
I also think you need a new panel with more available circuits.

 

[Timm R Oday25]

I deduct the switch function has been changed by a previous owners.Adding a second panel would also be my thought. Replacement labels are readily available through Defender ,West Marine or Hamilton Marine. If you ask your kids real nice they can even custom print you labels at home .

 

[Wm. Gill]

Don't know your panel, but to your last question: YES
I also think you need a new panel with more available circuits.

That's what I thought. I assume "inst. power" is depth and knot meters. Will have to do some testing. If the piggy backed circuits are for those I will have to move them, probably to their own fuse w/o a switch other than the main battery switch.

 

[Wm. Gill]

I deduct the switch function has been changed by a previous owners.Adding a second panel would also be my thought. Replacement labels are readily available through Defender ,West Marine or Hamilton Marine. If you ask your kids real nice they can even custom print you labels at home .

I suspect the same. The anchor light was inop so hijacking the switch/fuse for the instruments worked for him. It's also possible he just had the anchor light on all the time when it was still working.
Would like to know more about the printer labels you mention. I don't want to use mailing labels, but if there are some vinyl or weather-proof labels that work with an inkjet printer I'm all ears.

 

[Joe]

......Would like to know more about the printer labels you mention. I don't want to use mailing labels, but if there are some vinyl or weather-proof labels that work with an inkjet printer I'm all ears...........

You'll find that kind of thing at any chandlery. Go to any online boat store.. west marine, defender, iboats.com etc. even AMAZON.... literally anyone that sells marine electrical stuff. Or just google "marine electrical panel labels" or "boat switch labels"

But.... wait..... there's a good chance that if you buy a new panel to augment your currently insufficient 5 circuits(recommended), a collection of new labels should be included. such as this:


About this item

• Illuminated rocker switches
• Pop-out fuse holders
• Corrosion-free aluminum panel
• Marine-grade tinned wire
• Fuses and extra labels included

P.S. This is not an endorsement. The wide disparity in the marine electrical panel market is not in my expertise. Although I have had years of good service from a similar quality panel, my boat has very limited off shore credits... Catalina, Ensenada, and some other coastal areas... but no extended cruises..so I encourage you to do your due diligence regarding these products. Joe

 

[jviss]

I love this topic, because I love electrical things and equipment. I completely replace the panel in my Catalina 36 and it was a big upgrade that I enjoyed doing.

In your case, in order to provide information and advice, it would be helpful to know how much you care, how enthusiastic you are, and what your budget for time and money might be to sort this out. This can range from just getting the answers to your two questions and that's it, to a complete specification and redesign of your power center.

A small nit" what's the "bow light?" I'm not sure what this would be on a sailboat.

 

[Wm. Gill]

I love this topic, because I love electrical things and equipment. I completely replace the panel in my Catalina 36 and it was a big upgrade that I enjoyed doing.

In your case, in order to provide information and advice, it would be helpful to know how much you care, how enthusiastic you are, and what your budget for time and money might be to sort this out. This can range from just getting the answers to your two questions and that's it, to a complete specification and redesign of your power center.

A small nit" what's the "bow light?" I'm not sure what this would be on a sailboat.

When I returned from Vietnam I worked as final electrical inspector at the Chrysler Tank Plant until I found a job in my field. I was also troubleshooter for any electrical issues keeping new tanks from going out the door. The M60 had a 24 VDC system equipped with self-setting circuit breakers (they would reset themselves after a few seconds). Frequently wires would break but still have the ends touching at the break. These "connections" could support the few milliamps a multimeter draws, giving a good 24V reading, but couldn't support the amperage of an actual load, rendering the multimeter useless. A screwdriver shorted to the hull would trip the breaker telling me the wire was solid, but the spark sent mechanics scattering, and earned me the nickname "sparky." I left to pursue my electronics training, becoming a tech, then engineer, then Operations Manager running a 2 state region for a telecom giant. This boat fills several personal needs, cruising single handed is like cruising on the Harley I was forced to give up (though only at 6 knots). Maintaining her fills the need to work with my hands, and rectifying short cuts, kludges, and generally "cleaning things up" fills my obsession for things "done right."

I am trying to restore her, but not trying to be judged for not using the same screws used in the original, like antique car competitions.

Hope that answers you first questions. As for "bow light", that threw me too, but I found some references to "bow light" as the all-around/anchor light. So, I will use "masthead" for the masthead/steaming light, and "bow" for the anchor light. I will figure out something for "inst. power" currently piggybacked on the panel, and maybe remove the Dymo label to see what's underneath.

 

[jviss]

When I returned from Vietnam I worked as final electrical inspector at the Chrysler Tank Plant until I found a job in my field. I was also troubleshooter for any electrical issues keeping new tanks from going out the door. The M60 had a 24 VDC system equipped with self-setting circuit breakers (they would reset themselves after a few seconds). Frequently wires would break but still have the ends touching at the break. These "connections" could support the few milliamps a multimeter draws, giving a good 24V reading, but couldn't support the amperage of an actual load, rendering the multimeter useless. A screwdriver shorted to the hull would trip the breaker telling me the wire was solid, but the spark sent mechanics scattering, and earned me the nickname "sparky." I left to pursue my electronics training, becoming a tech, then engineer, then Operations Manager running a 2 state region for a telecom giant. This boat fills several personal needs, cruising single handed is like cruising on the Harley I was forced to give up (though only at 6 knots). Maintaining her fills the need to work with my hands, and rectifying short cuts, kludges, and generally "cleaning things up" fills my obsession for things "done right."

I am trying to restore her, but not trying to be judged for not using the same screws used in the original, like antique car competitions.

Hope that answers you first questions. As for "bow light", that threw me too, but I found some references to "bow light" as the all-around/anchor light. So, I will use "masthead" for the masthead/steaming light, and "bow" for the anchor light. I will figure out something for "inst. power" currently piggybacked on the panel, and maybe remove the Dymo label to see what's underneath.

Thanks, that's helpful. I, personally, would consider replacing the panel with one that has circuit breakers, and more positions. But you can certainly keep this panel and make it serviceable, once you sus it out.

Maybe you should start a little contest about what's under the Dymo label! My guess is VHF.

 

[Wm. Gill]

Maybe you should start a little contest about what's under the Dymo label! My guess is VHF.

I'm surprised no one recognized this panel. VHF wouldn't be my guess, because I would think whoever placed the Dymo would have figured "VHF" is close enough to "inst, power", but I've learned there's no telling how other people's minds work.

 

[jviss]

I'm surprised no one recognized this panel.

Maybe if you had "C&C Electrical Panel" in the title it would attract someone who has a C&C.

 

[Wm. Gill]

Maybe if you had "C&C Electrical Panel" in the title it would attract someone who has a C&C.

Yeah, that probably would have been better. It didn't occur to me at the time.

 

[jviss]

Yeah, that probably would have been better. It didn't occur to me at the time.

I searched C&C 30s on yachtworld and couldn't find your panel.

 

[Wm. Gill]

Maybe you should start a little contest about what's under the Dymo label! My guess is VHF.

Decided the Dymo label needed to go. Panel says "Masthead Light" which matches the wiring diagram for the white/red wire it controls.

Now I just have to decide where to move the piggybacked circuits. I verified "inst power" meant knot and depth meter. I previously added a small fuse block on the wiring panel (in the spaces near the engine compartment) for GPS and for the as yet un-installed autopilot and NMEA network. At present it's not switched (other than the main battery switch). I may replace it with a larger one, and a single switching breaker for "electronics" (similar to my bilge pump which is on its own panel), or remove it in favor of a 5 or 6 circuit switching breaker panel. Not crazy about adding more holes, or enlarging current holes in the bulkhead between cabin and engine spaces. Will have to think about it.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Hope that answers you first questions. As for "bow light", that threw me too, but I found some references to "bow light" as the all-around/anchor light. So, I will use "masthead" for the masthead/steaming light, and "bow" for the anchor light. I will figure out something for "inst. power" currently piggybacked on the panel, and maybe remove the Dymo label to see what's underneath.

I think you've got that wrong ... I think the "bow" light would be the steaming light. The anchor light is already labeled and is almost certainly on your "masthead". It's the only "all around" light you would have and it has just one purpose and requires its own switch. The steaming light only faces forward ... or towards the "bow". It is probably on the bow side of the mast about midway up. It may be in combination (or at least the same location) with the "foredeck" light. Since it only has one purpose (motoring in the dark), it also needs to have its own switch.

Power boats are distinguished from sailboats by having an "all-around" white light that is mounted at the highest point. Sailboats, when sailing, do not have a forward-facing white light (that's how you can tell that it is a sailboat that is sailing in the dark). When a sailboat is motoring, it is a motor boat, so it has to have a forward-facing white light (that would be your "bow" light) in combination with your stern light (which is on the "running lights" switch) to complete your "all-around" white light that you must have when you are a motor boat in the dark.

 

[Wm. Gill]

I think you've got that wrong ... I think the "bow" light would be the steaming light. The anchor light is already labeled and is almost certainly on your "masthead". It's the only "all around" light you would have and it has just one purpose and requires its own switch. The steaming light only faces forward ... or towards the "bow". It is probably on the bow side of the mast about midway up. It may be in combination (or at least the same location) with the "foredeck" light. Since it only has one purpose (motoring in the dark), it also needs to have its own switch.

Power boats are distinguished from sailboats by having an "all-around" white light that is mounted at the highest point. Sailboats, when sailing, do not have a forward-facing white light (that's how you can tell that it is a sailboat that is sailing in the dark). When a sailboat is motoring, it is a motor boat, so it has to have a forward-facing white light (that would be your "bow" light) in combination with your stern light (which is on the "running lights" switch) to complete your "all-around" white light that you must have when you are a motor boat in the dark.

Linguistically I thought the same thing. However, every reference I see to masthead light says, "a white forward facing 225-degree light 2/3rds of the way up the mast." Bow light is a little more ambiguous than the term anchor light (BTW nothing is labeled "anchor light") but references say, "is a white light displayed by a ship at anchor, and visible 360 degrees."

 

[Wm. Gill]

Decided the Dymo label needed to go. Panel says "Masthead Light" which matches the wiring diagram for the white/red wire it controls.

Now I just have to decide where to move the piggybacked circuits. I verified "inst power" meant knot and depth meter...

I just realized, since I don't have a spreader light, or any other foredeck lights the "foredeck lighting" circuit is unused. I can move the knot meter, depth meter, GPS, and NMEA to the fuse panel I installed, and feed & fuse that fuse panel from the "foredeck lighting" circuit relabeling it "Electronics" (now that I know labels are available).

 

[Apex]

running lights: red/green and aft white
bow light: indeed steaming light, halfway up the mast
foredeck lighting: (unused?) but would typically be the 2nd half of steam/deck light. Glad you found a circuit to move "electronics" to.
masthead light: anchor light, white 360° all-around
cabin lights: .....

 

[Wm. Gill]

running lights: red/green and aft white
bow light: indeed steaming light, halfway up the mast
foredeck lighting: (unused?) but would typically be the 2nd half of steam/deck light. Glad you found a circuit to move "electronics" to.
masthead light: anchor light, white 360° all-around
cabin lights: .....
View attachment 216062

Again, these are what I too assumed for bow and masthead lights, but they do not match any of the definitions when you look them up. Everything I find for masthead light says 225-degree visibility 2/3rds of the way up the mast. To me that means steaming light, and many references even go so far as to say, "Steaming light. Also known as a masthead light." Bow light is a little more obscure, but frequently mention, "boat at anchor" and " visible 360 degrees." One article even mentioned that sailboat people think masthead means the sail's mast but is referring to the light mast used for it on a powerboat.

If you have any reference that contradict these definitions, I'd be happy to see them.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

"Anchor Light"! hmmm ... that could be what is under the label!
Oh, I just read your last post where you say it is "Masthead"

Well, your description of masthead is clearly a steaming light (225 d facing forward), but they are not typically displayed on the mast head of a sailboat. The top of the mast typically has an anchor light (all-around). Their labeling indeed is confusing. If masthead is supposed to be the steaming light, then that leaves out "anchor light" and then what the heck is a "bow light"

Regardless, the labels don't really matter as long as you have the wiring correct and you know which lights are being switched on when you need them!