Chicken or the egg type question...

[Brian D]

I know I could probably search the archive for this, but sometimes I like to just jump right out there and ask!When looking at a boat, one has several options and I guess it is up to the broker/seller as to which is more amicable to both parties. But I am wondering if there is a certain protocol to follow, like; dare you, double dare you, and double dog dare you (remember that movie?). So, here is my two-part question.Does one make an offer then do the survey sea trial if the initial offer is accepted, with stipulation?orDoes one ask to do a survey and sea trial then submit an offer based on the results of said survey and sea trial?Opinions welcomed, and as always, thanks.

 

[Ross]

I would look the boat over very carefully.

Then if I was still interested I would bring a knowledgable friend back and we would both look it over very carefully. If I still liked it I would make an offer subject to etc. etc.

 

[Norton]

Option A

Just like buying a house. View/inspect, sometimes sea trial if owner is willing, offer, survey/sea trial (surveyor should be on the sea trial as well). Why spend survey money before you know you are in the ball park on price/terms. Anything that was not disclosed lowers the price unless you think the agreed price is too good to pass up.

 

[Sailm8]

Just did this

I saw the boat and made an offer subject to survey and seatrial. The offer was accepted and we sailed the boat (seatrial) to be pulled and inspected. Passed inspection with one small item found. I negociated the repair with the owner and bought the boat.

 

[TimCup]

Here in Florida

the normal course of business is to negotiate a price subject to sea trial and/or a survey. If you can't come to agreement on a price, the sea trial is just wasted time, the survey wasted expense. If the sea trial is satisfactory, it's now the survey. They always find a few things wrong, particularly with older boats. Assuming no serious issues, you'd be expected to honor your offer. Anything more, you have every right to back out and get back your deposit. Sometimes, the survey, or even the sea trial, will show un disclosed problems- when that happens, you're third option is to alter your offer to allow for the costs of these newly found problems.

 

[Terry Cox]

Hi Brian, in both of our purchases we signed a Sales...

Agreement with a deposit place in escrow to hold the boat until we had time to have it surveyed. The Agreement language included assorted contingencies in the event we changed our minds. A few include loan approval, survey results, sales price, sea trial, tide current, solar eclipse, earth quakes, etc., etc., etc.Terry

 

[Stu Jackson]

What would you do if you were the seller?

same thing only backwards...

 

[Banooma]

What Terry and Rob said...

In my case, I agreed to a price pending a professional survey, which included an inspection on the hard. Like with a house, I don't think the buyer can be expected to thoroughly check everything with the objectivity and experience of a surveyor who has hopefully surveyed many boats. Ultimately, I reduced my offer based on his findings and we closed at that price.

 

[Rich (P303)]

Brian D...

It is actually a combination of all the posts!Find the boat you need to have and look it over. If you know what to look for... you don't need to bring that knowlegable friend. Make a list of all the stuff you find that needs to be addressed... the list will grow after the survey. Said stuff... might have to be addressed before you can insure it.If you are dealing with the selling broker alone... there is some leaway in the selling price... as he has both sides of the sale (and will cut his commision to seal the deal if need be... happened to me).Find a REPUTABLE Surveyor (LOOKING OUT FOR YOUR INTEREST)... give him a call and tell him what you are looking at. If he is on your side... he can come up with a spreadsheet of that particular model/year that has sold... asking/selling price for a particular region. Find the average selling price for the area and offer 25% less pending sea trial and survey.If you can agree on that price... give him the down payment... to tie the boat up... and proceed on. Everyone will be pissed but you.Get the surveyor down there to do his thing (YOU WILL BE PRESENT... WON"T YOU). If it still looks good on the hard... proceed to the sea trial. By this time you have accrued a considerable expense, however the seller knows you are serious. If it passes muster... you are in the clear... however won't have much to bargin with as the seller won't come down in price no matter what. (you already have the dickering behind you!) You can reject the boat for "ANY REASON" during survey and sea trial for full refund. Happy hunting and good luck "Little Grasshopper".Rich

 

[John24107]

Are you crazy?

"Are you crazy??" -- was the look I got when I arranged for a survey before making an offer. But, at the time, I thought it made sense. I was making my first boat purchase and really knew nothing. So, I had a surveyor tell me what I needed to know. I then made an offer that was refused but I felt better about walking away from the deals. Had I made an offer just based on my inspection and the asking price, it likely would have cost me as much because the post-survey offer price (what I thought to be a fair value) was much less than the original asking price. By the way, that boat is still available I think and it's been over a year since I looked at it.

 

[Brian D]

My first purchase was nothing like any of this...

Hence the question so as to avoid "costly" mistakes on the next purchase.When I bought my Lancer 27, I dealt with the owner directly. The wife and I looked it over, liked it, and said we'd call him later. But in the car the wife said we should get it, so we did. No survey, no sea trial, no nothing.After it was ours, we needed a survey for insurance and slip rental purposes. We were very lucky that the (on the water) survey revealed no major flaws. I have since inspected the bottom and there are no blisters. So like I said, I was very lucky.But I will not take that chance again. When the time comes, I will find what I am looking for, look it over (I have an intensive check list), make an offer, and if accepted, do a sea trial first before hauling for a survey. No use putting down big bucks if the boat sails like a dog, yeah?Great responses. Thanks guys

 

[Stu Jackson]

Brian, good luck shouldn't be part of the process

although I'm glad to hear you did well on your current boat.If you are still looking at a Catalina 34 or two, I recommend reading the link, and doing a search on our Message Board for "weblog" - you can learn a lot about what to look for specific to our boats.Now, it IS appropriate to say "Good Luck" in finding the "right" boat for YOU.

 

[Terry Cox]

As a foot note Stu brought up a good point that ...

reminded me of one step in the process I took and that was searching the archives here for information about the boat model in preparation for the survey and final negotiations. I learned a great deal about the various systems and boat issues. One of them had to do with a Hunter electrical recall that applied to our hull number, which the PO had not pursued. No big deal, but it did help put my mind at ease plus I learned a lot in the process. We ended up with a great lightly used well equipped boat at a fire sale price.Terry

 

[John]

First boat

Our first boat was a 1982 Catalina 30. I knew less than nothing about boats at that time. (Now, I know a little bit more than nothing.) I looked at it, went out sailing on it, and made an offer, contingent on the inspection. The owner agreed to pay for half of any blisters found. There were numerous ones - apparently a common problem on Catalina's made around that year. However, my mistake was to simply trust the surveyor to find any problems that might exist. I don't know if he was incompetent or in a hurry (he had another boat to attend to), but he missed a lot of stuff. I also found out later that he was evidently acquainted with the seller, who later told me that the surveyor had criticized him for selling the boat for so little. (This was the surveyor I'd hired!)The next boat we got, I was there when it was surveyed. I was very impressed by the thoroughness of the surveyor and quite happy with the job he did. However, even he missed one or two things. I relate this because I concluded that I can't count on the surveyor to find problems; if I get another boat, I will thoroughly look it over from stem to stern. I'm no expert, but I figure two heads (mine and the surveyor's) are better than one. Incidentally, in both cases we agreed upon a price before the survey; in the second case, it was with the agreement that anything over $2,500 of estimated repairs would be paid for by the seller.

 

[Stillraining]

Pretty much agree

with everything being said...I like Post #4 Tim sums it up pretty well...I would reverse the survey and sea trial procedure on a complex boat... as I will also have the surveyor and mechanic accompany me on that as well ...and after they have done the majority of their inspection at the dock they have a fairly good idea of what to hone in on underway..ie. does that bulk head really move underway...are thoes tinny stress cracks on the midships port hull from oil canning etc..etc..  Again this would be for a complex boat not a 20' O'day there are just to many tings for one set of eyes to look at on a 35+' boat in the short time of a sea trial and or sitting at the dock.

 

[Rob]

Except

Brian,Many boat owners would probably say any boat is a "costly" mistake.

 

[Andy1237]

Charter the boat?

If you live in an area with lots of boats available for charter you could take a sistership for a charter.I was real weary of negotiating a price on boat and paying for a survey on a boat that I wasn't really sure I wanted. We kicked all over the boat to make sure we were interested and in the end took a sea trial to see how we like the the sailing characteristics and "feel". We got the sea trial because the dealer knew we were serious buyers, we had sold our old boat, and the seller was ready to move the boat. All worked out. Without all that being the situation the only way it would have happened is if we chartered a sistership. Unfortunately, sisters are often hard to find.

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

Use Common sense.

If you wanted to do a survey on my boat and a sea trial, I wouldnt mind at all. Thats all part of selling a boat. But keep in mind that without "offer and acceptance" we dont have any kind of understanding or deal. I could sell the boat out from under you while you in the middle of paying for your survey. Any kind of agreement on paper first, usually works equally for both parties.(Without playing lawyer) I will say that a good broker will get you off the hook if the boat is at a point that is way beyond what you expected. Treat this like buying a car or a house. Same logic applies. Tony B