One of the guys in our club has a Cherubini (37 ft). He just had some major deck work done on it. The substrate was very puzzeling to everyone who saw it. Can anyone tell me how many yards made these models? Many thanks, J-G
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6X6 pieces of 3/4 in plywood bound together by epoxy. Couldn't believe a production boat could be built like that...
and?
There is nothing wrong with that, in fact, if it's done right, it's actually the preferred method. A perferred type of cored deck is one where if water gets in, it doesn't destroy the whole core. Some builders and modifiers have put in a bottom layer deck of little pockets where the core went and then of course, topped off with glass. What this does is stop the spreading of damaged core from water leakage.
There is nothing wrong with that, in fact, if it's done right, it's actually the preferred method. A perferred type of cored deck is one where if water gets in, it doesn't destroy the whole core. Some builders and modifiers have put in a bottom layer deck of little pockets where the core went and then of course, topped off with glass. What this does is stop the spreading of damaged core from water leakage.
most production boats were built that way
Including all the major builders. Common practice. An economical solution to make the deck strong and not be a problem. They most likey were not epoxed in but put in polyester resin with was much cheaper. The system work fine for years and years of service.
Including all the major builders. Common practice. An economical solution to make the deck strong and not be a problem. They most likey were not epoxed in but put in polyester resin with was much cheaper. The system work fine for years and years of service.
Cerubini builders
The owner called in experts when it was found that he had a considerable number of deck voids. This is what they found when they opened it up. They had never seen anything like it. There was very little epoxy holding it all together and most of it was a soggy mess and very expensive to repair. What other companies used this tecnique or was it limited to Hunter?
The owner called in experts when it was found that he had a considerable number of deck voids. This is what they found when they opened it up. They had never seen anything like it. There was very little epoxy holding it all together and most of it was a soggy mess and very expensive to repair. What other companies used this tecnique or was it limited to Hunter?
Funny you should respond from Kemah,TX. This boat was bought in Kemah and shipped to Victoria by the present owner. Name of boat is Zephyr. It appears to have been a lease boat. Last spring he had it out for a bottom job and found that the entire bottom had to be re-gelcoated. There were some bubbles but ir was something the experts called "gelcoat shear" that had occurred. Needless to say the owner is financially into this one big time now.
Cherubini deck construction
The picture shows the deck section on my 79 H33, made up of end grain balsa, with fiberglass layup top and bottom. In addition, the cabin liner was more or less glassed into the lower layer of the deck section, perhaps adding additional flexure strength. Selected sections of the deck requiring more screw pull out strength than the end grain balsa would afford, e.g. under handrails, have the plywood core. I remember Sam Lust with one of the last H33s saying that his core construction seemed to be plywood throughout. It may be that the construction techniques evolved and changed with balsa giving way to plywood in the later years of the cherubini construction.
The picture shows the deck section on my 79 H33, made up of end grain balsa, with fiberglass layup top and bottom. In addition, the cabin liner was more or less glassed into the lower layer of the deck section, perhaps adding additional flexure strength. Selected sections of the deck requiring more screw pull out strength than the end grain balsa would afford, e.g. under handrails, have the plywood core. I remember Sam Lust with one of the last H33s saying that his core construction seemed to be plywood throughout. It may be that the construction techniques evolved and changed with balsa giving way to plywood in the later years of the cherubini construction.
Bottom finish
Not sure what you mean. The entire hull is gelcoated over the epoxy/fg layup. When his boat came out it was obvious that there was a real problem with the (under bottom paint) finish. It was severely pitted and much of the gelcoat has flaked off. One of the better boat repair firms had a look at it and determined that the gelcoat layer had to be repaced due to something called "gelcoat shear". They did a wonderful job and now it looks like new but it was an expensive. Soon after he discovered the deck voids. He didn't have the entire deck redone so there is still a lot of problems, particularly at the outer edges. His stachions are loose... I am just curios to know if all chernubis/hunters were built the same way in the late 70's.
Not sure what you mean. The entire hull is gelcoated over the epoxy/fg layup. When his boat came out it was obvious that there was a real problem with the (under bottom paint) finish. It was severely pitted and much of the gelcoat has flaked off. One of the better boat repair firms had a look at it and determined that the gelcoat layer had to be repaced due to something called "gelcoat shear". They did a wonderful job and now it looks like new but it was an expensive. Soon after he discovered the deck voids. He didn't have the entire deck redone so there is still a lot of problems, particularly at the outer edges. His stachions are loose... I am just curios to know if all chernubis/hunters were built the same way in the late 70's.
Chernubi deck layup
Interesting that they would have "evolved" to this method. From what I have seen with this boat it was not a good move on the builders' part. Wonder how widespread this is.... Thanks.
Interesting that they would have "evolved" to this method. From what I have seen with this boat it was not a good move on the builders' part. Wonder how widespread this is.... Thanks.
J G could you give us the year
What year was this 33 manufactured? We had the fuel shortage around 77 and resin prices went through the roof. It may had effected how much resin was used in this core. I purchased a CHeoy Lee Clipper 33 in 1979 and worried about the construction but never had a problem in the 25 years I owned it.
What year was this 33 manufactured? We had the fuel shortage around 77 and resin prices went through the roof. It may had effected how much resin was used in this core. I purchased a CHeoy Lee Clipper 33 in 1979 and worried about the construction but never had a problem in the 25 years I owned it.
Monday boat?
Hard to believe that they could screw up both the deck and the hull on the same Monday. My 1979 H37C has none of those problems. I took the bottom down to clean gelcoat before adding an epoxy barrier coat. There were a few pencil eraser size bumps that were dry. I filled them anyway. My cabin trunk and side decks might be the same. I have never drilled a hole without finding plywood. My decks have a few wet spots but that is to be expected. There are just too many places for water ingress. I am gradually eliminating or repairing those.
Hard to believe that they could screw up both the deck and the hull on the same Monday. My 1979 H37C has none of those problems. I took the bottom down to clean gelcoat before adding an epoxy barrier coat. There were a few pencil eraser size bumps that were dry. I filled them anyway. My cabin trunk and side decks might be the same. I have never drilled a hole without finding plywood. My decks have a few wet spots but that is to be expected. There are just too many places for water ingress. I am gradually eliminating or repairing those.
so what is it suposed to do?
The entire idea here is to get separation between layers of laminate to make a pannel strong. the randon use of plywood set in resin (its not epoxy) is a good way to do it. if water got in here or there it does minimal damage. it is very strong and i may end up with a viod here or there. It seems like it took about 20 or 25 years for this to be discovered. Looks to me like he took the expensive way out to fix it. It is a little late to be asking about the quality of construction. these issues should have been delt with before he bought it. and what about the survey? It should have told the story. Again, Most manufactures who have been in business very long have used this procedure with very minimal problems. It is used on blue water boats built on all the contentents! This system was used as far back as the late 50,s and is still being used. and approved as a legitimate way to do coring a deck. This system does not rely on the plywood parts for loads it only serves to separate the laminate surfaces and glue them together. Usually the problems occur with improperly installed deck hardware or leaking fittings.
The entire idea here is to get separation between layers of laminate to make a pannel strong. the randon use of plywood set in resin (its not epoxy) is a good way to do it. if water got in here or there it does minimal damage. it is very strong and i may end up with a viod here or there. It seems like it took about 20 or 25 years for this to be discovered. Looks to me like he took the expensive way out to fix it. It is a little late to be asking about the quality of construction. these issues should have been delt with before he bought it. and what about the survey? It should have told the story. Again, Most manufactures who have been in business very long have used this procedure with very minimal problems. It is used on blue water boats built on all the contentents! This system was used as far back as the late 50,s and is still being used. and approved as a legitimate way to do coring a deck. This system does not rely on the plywood parts for loads it only serves to separate the laminate surfaces and glue them together. Usually the problems occur with improperly installed deck hardware or leaking fittings.
Core.
Terry: I finaly did find some balsa in my core. I drilled a 4" hole in the upper deck for the Heater vent pipe, about 8 inches from the mast. In addition to the balsa the plug i pulled contained a resin mass that I can only call a slurry. It appeare it was mixed and poured in as the deck and deck inner liner were mated. This forms a solid mass to transfer the loadof the deck stepped mast directly to the compression post. No wood in this critical area to compress. Everywhere else I've cut a hole on my 33 where I could identify the material it has been plywood. I have no idea how much more of the upper deck is plywood and my curiosity is not strong enough to get me to hack away at the deck with a circular saw. .. Yet. Seeing the picture of the 37 in question I kind of like the technique. Encapsulates individual pieces of ply so rot won't creep. Allows resin "bridges" to improve rigidity. Smaller pieces allow easy curving of surface. Very good. I agree, a better survey might have been in order. P.S. to JG in Victoria. Your friend has a Hunter built to a John Cherubini design. Cherubinis are built by the Cherubini family in New Jersey.
Terry: I finaly did find some balsa in my core. I drilled a 4" hole in the upper deck for the Heater vent pipe, about 8 inches from the mast. In addition to the balsa the plug i pulled contained a resin mass that I can only call a slurry. It appeare it was mixed and poured in as the deck and deck inner liner were mated. This forms a solid mass to transfer the loadof the deck stepped mast directly to the compression post. No wood in this critical area to compress. Everywhere else I've cut a hole on my 33 where I could identify the material it has been plywood. I have no idea how much more of the upper deck is plywood and my curiosity is not strong enough to get me to hack away at the deck with a circular saw. .. Yet. Seeing the picture of the 37 in question I kind of like the technique. Encapsulates individual pieces of ply so rot won't creep. Allows resin "bridges" to improve rigidity. Smaller pieces allow easy curving of surface. Very good. I agree, a better survey might have been in order. P.S. to JG in Victoria. Your friend has a Hunter built to a John Cherubini design. Cherubinis are built by the Cherubini family in New Jersey.
Chernubi deck layup
Many thanks to all who resonded. Thanks for the ID of the builders, Sam. Did they build them all at the same yard or did they license other yards to build their boats? With regards to the layup of this boat, there has not been any balsa core found to date. As you can see from the pics there has been a significant area that was cut out and repaired. About 30% of the subsrate was found to be water permeated. There is no doubt that the ingress was from deck fittings. We are having another very dry summer here so that has helped with the drying process. The techs also used cat litter to suck up the humidity. They then applied a resin slurry over the entire exposed surface and bonded the pieces that had been cut out, filled in the seams, leveled it all and applied a new non-skid finish. The job looks very good but they admit that what they did is only a bandaid solution. There is much more to do and the worst part, and hardest to repair will be the outer edges where the stanchions and toerail are secured. I don't think the owner is going to go that far. I don't believe he had a survey done when he bought it. He claims it was a "very good" deal at the time and supports the adage of "you gets what you pay for". I wanted to bring this up on this forum to make other Hunter owners aware of this potential problem. I own a Peterson 34 and am thankful that I have a good balsa cored deck. Cheers and thanks again to all. J-G
Many thanks to all who resonded. Thanks for the ID of the builders, Sam. Did they build them all at the same yard or did they license other yards to build their boats? With regards to the layup of this boat, there has not been any balsa core found to date. As you can see from the pics there has been a significant area that was cut out and repaired. About 30% of the subsrate was found to be water permeated. There is no doubt that the ingress was from deck fittings. We are having another very dry summer here so that has helped with the drying process. The techs also used cat litter to suck up the humidity. They then applied a resin slurry over the entire exposed surface and bonded the pieces that had been cut out, filled in the seams, leveled it all and applied a new non-skid finish. The job looks very good but they admit that what they did is only a bandaid solution. There is much more to do and the worst part, and hardest to repair will be the outer edges where the stanchions and toerail are secured. I don't think the owner is going to go that far. I don't believe he had a survey done when he bought it. He claims it was a "very good" deal at the time and supports the adage of "you gets what you pay for". I wanted to bring this up on this forum to make other Hunter owners aware of this potential problem. I own a Peterson 34 and am thankful that I have a good balsa cored deck. Cheers and thanks again to all. J-G
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