Bought the boat in fall. It seems to smell worse in winter. At first I thought to change all the sanitation hoses but it doesn't really smell like sewage? Maybe it's combination of sewage and the head chemical the previous owner used? But today when was building a new shower grate I happened to smell the old plastic one . It had exactly the chemical smell I'm objecting to. It makes me wonder if the chemical has impregnated the entire boat even the hull? Does anybody have any ideas? I'm thinking the only solution is to put in a solar fan so there will always be fresh air displacing the contaminated air. Was in a a 45 year old Sabre boat next to mine yesterday and didn't smell a thing? Thanks
Chemical smell Catalina 320, 2004
- Thread starter Ted10028
- Start date
Some plastics have a propensity to absorb smells, the shower grate may have absorbed the odor and be part of the problem.
Have you done the rag test on the sanitation hoses? Place a clean wet rag on the hose and leave it for a few hours. If it smells the sanitation hose is permeated and needs to be replaced.
My boat had an odor issue from old sanitation hoses, even after replacing the hose, the odor continued. I discovered the insulation in the wiring had absorbed the odor. As I replaced wires, the odor faded.
Once you have eliminated the major source of the odor Pure Ayre (Amazon Link) will help to neutralize the odor.
Have you done the rag test on the sanitation hoses? Place a clean wet rag on the hose and leave it for a few hours. If it smells the sanitation hose is permeated and needs to be replaced.
My boat had an odor issue from old sanitation hoses, even after replacing the hose, the odor continued. I discovered the insulation in the wiring had absorbed the odor. As I replaced wires, the odor faded.
Once you have eliminated the major source of the odor Pure Ayre (Amazon Link) will help to neutralize the odor.
Chemical smell is rather vague, like saying food smell.
Like ...
Like ...
- gasoline
- glycol
- alcohol from winterization
- battery acid
- formaldehyde/bronapol
- styrene/fiberglass
- some specific adhesive, such as methylmethacyrilate (MMA, Plexus, used to bond hulls)
I will do the rag test! I tried washing the old shower great but it didn't do a thing.
it is no smell that I recognize but I will check a bottle of hand treatment tomorrow. It never occurred to me that anybody would sell anything that smelled that bad. Thanks
Your boat is 20 years old now and most likely the hoses have never been exchanged. You simply can't avoid doing that. Unless the previous owner did it recently, you should be changing those hoses as the first order of business if you want to deal with the smell. Luckily, it's not that difficult on the 320. Buy the best hoses, though ... you don't want to be doing this again soon. I even found that the toilet stinks to high heaven. You would think that ceramic doesn't absorb odor, but there must be components in the toilet that smell. You might be able to change out all the guts of it, but I found it much easier and expedient to just chuck the whole thing and buy new. I was surprised both times that I did it, how obvious and how badly the toilet actually stunk to high heaven once it was outside the boat and isolated. (Both toilets looked perfectly spotless). Once I could smell it isolated from the head, I just threw it off the boat to the ground knowing it is entirely unsalvageable (at least by me, anyway). I'd be curious if others have had the same experience.
The smell may seem unfamiliar, but it most likely originated from the toilet and hoses. Adding chemicals to the holding tank probably just disguises the odor a bit. The problem you will find is that odor permeates everything, including the cushion fabric and foam padding within. We looked at several 320's in the 20-year-old age bracket and every single one had odors to deal with. None of the owners had ever changed their hoses. It amazes me how commonly boat owners allow offensive odors to develop, so you are not alone in having to deal with it! I just accepted that it was something that I would have to deal with no matter how many boats we considered. Ours wasn't awful, but it has required patience and effort to eliminate even mildly offensive odors. Sue still complains about the diesel, even though I find it barely perceptible now.
That 20-year age bracket seems to be right in the sour spot where owners sell their boats before addressing anything that should be addressed. I found the same issue in purchasing two 20-year-old boats so far. They have an affordable selling price and they can be in very good condition on the exterior and ready to sail away .... but there is a ton of boat systems improvements that need to be addressed if you are going to be a fastidious boat owner. In my experience, it has been expensive to make the improvements that I want. I think there is a lot of luck and/or patience involved in finding an affordable boat where the previous owner took care of everything on a timely basis.
How is your standing rigging? I found a reason to replace all of mine for peace of mind, even though on the surface it looked fine. If you are curious, I can tell you about the stem fitting. It is one reason why I replaced all standing rigging.
The smell may seem unfamiliar, but it most likely originated from the toilet and hoses. Adding chemicals to the holding tank probably just disguises the odor a bit. The problem you will find is that odor permeates everything, including the cushion fabric and foam padding within. We looked at several 320's in the 20-year-old age bracket and every single one had odors to deal with. None of the owners had ever changed their hoses. It amazes me how commonly boat owners allow offensive odors to develop, so you are not alone in having to deal with it! I just accepted that it was something that I would have to deal with no matter how many boats we considered. Ours wasn't awful, but it has required patience and effort to eliminate even mildly offensive odors. Sue still complains about the diesel, even though I find it barely perceptible now.
That 20-year age bracket seems to be right in the sour spot where owners sell their boats before addressing anything that should be addressed. I found the same issue in purchasing two 20-year-old boats so far. They have an affordable selling price and they can be in very good condition on the exterior and ready to sail away .... but there is a ton of boat systems improvements that need to be addressed if you are going to be a fastidious boat owner. In my experience, it has been expensive to make the improvements that I want. I think there is a lot of luck and/or patience involved in finding an affordable boat where the previous owner took care of everything on a timely basis.
How is your standing rigging? I found a reason to replace all of mine for peace of mind, even though on the surface it looked fine. If you are curious, I can tell you about the stem fitting. It is one reason why I replaced all standing rigging.
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thanks for all the information. How much do you think it would cost to replace the whole toilet system. I suppose that includes the holding tank too? my standing rigging looks fine but please tell me where I can look for problems. Thank you very much for all the help!
@Scott T-Bird is correct about this in a big way. The easiest hoses to work with and the most odor proof is Raritan Sani-flex. It isn't cheap, but this not a job you want to cheap out on. One source of odor from the toilet, even when empty and clean, is the gasket between the bowl and the stand. There are a couple of issues, if it is too tight, it will leak, if it is too loose it will leak, and the gasket itself will absorb odors.
While changing the sanitation hoses, also change the water intake hose, it can harbor smells from dying stuff.
The vent hose from the holding tank should be changed too.
The holding tank seldom needs replacing. Once you're back in the water spend some time at the pump out and thoroughly flush the tank. Throw some dishwasher detergent in the tank and a lot of water, go sailing and then pump out and rinse.
And get Peggy Hall's book (Amazon Link). It is everything you need to know about marine sanitation.
It has often been said on this forum that much of the marine sanitation system odor originates from dead and decaying animal or vegetable life in the sea water. I therefore find it very odd that Raritan does not make their Sani-flex hose in 3/4". Unfortunate given my 1-1/2" hose is only 7 ft whereas the 3/4" hose totals about 24 ft.
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I love the boat, so I'd be happy to share any of my experiences. Mine is a 1999 model that we bought in 2020. I looked at a 1996 model in South Norwalk. It was in the yard at the Total Marine Boat Dealer. I think the later models had some significant improvements.
The only component that I didn't replace was the holding tank. I believe the holding tanks are a plastic that will resist the odors. I was inclined to replace the toilet because I did not want to live with that tiny marine toilet and I wanted a standard size. The problem is that the pedestal that the toilet is mounted on is very narrow. I also wanted an electric flush - freshwater system. So my expense for a new toilet was more expensive to begin with. The toilet itself was over $500. You can price everything out on Defender. I spent at least $1000 in total, I think.
I wanted freshwater because pumping in Barnegat Bay water into the toilet is not appealing. I'm guessing that LIS water in the Norwalk area is similarly dirty. It was very easy plumbing in the freshwater from underneath the sink. It only required a few connection fittings, a small check valve (optional) a little bit of pex tubing and 1/2" hose. I replaced all of the discharge hoses, including the hose to the deck pump out. I replaced the macerator pump (you will find that in the battery compartment) and the hose from the macerator pump to the thru hull. The worst cause of smell was the vent filter the previous owner installed in my aft cabin closet. It's right behind the head and I suppose he thought it was a good idea. It was the worst and it stunk up the closet. The closet is cedar lined and it would be nice if it actually smelled like cedar! It was a bad idea and it actually made the ventilation worse. The first thing I replaced was the vent hose from the holding tank.
Sue didn't want the standard size toilet to stick out into the compartment too much, so I actually cut a hole in the fiberglass panel behind the toilet so that it would fit the way we wanted it. It was a bit of a project, but now that it is all trimmed-out it works very well and looks fine. I added shelving above the area that I needed to cut out and I went a little overboard. It could have been a little more compact. But it was necessary to make space because the electric toilet had a different and larger footprint so I had to do it.
That hole in the center of the panel was a mistake so I had to make a plug for it. I just bought materials from Home Depot to make this and now that it is trimmed out, it looks ok. The connections and fittings in the back of the toilet actually needed to fit in that lower compartment. I made it wider than it needed to be and if I were to do it again, I wouldn't cut into that curved wall on the right side of the picture. That was poor planning and it made it much more difficult to trim it out. I think what I did was make the boxes first and made them too wide. I ended up cutting the fiberglass to fit instead of re-making the boxes. Lazy ... and I wish I did it a bit differently!
You will need to take the cabinet out over the toilet to get access to the deck fill and the vent. Getting to the deck fill was the trickiest because there is some extra framing to remove. I needed some help from @Ward H to figure out what to remove. He saved the day after I contemplated giving up!
The only component that I didn't replace was the holding tank. I believe the holding tanks are a plastic that will resist the odors. I was inclined to replace the toilet because I did not want to live with that tiny marine toilet and I wanted a standard size. The problem is that the pedestal that the toilet is mounted on is very narrow. I also wanted an electric flush - freshwater system. So my expense for a new toilet was more expensive to begin with. The toilet itself was over $500. You can price everything out on Defender. I spent at least $1000 in total, I think.
I wanted freshwater because pumping in Barnegat Bay water into the toilet is not appealing. I'm guessing that LIS water in the Norwalk area is similarly dirty. It was very easy plumbing in the freshwater from underneath the sink. It only required a few connection fittings, a small check valve (optional) a little bit of pex tubing and 1/2" hose. I replaced all of the discharge hoses, including the hose to the deck pump out. I replaced the macerator pump (you will find that in the battery compartment) and the hose from the macerator pump to the thru hull. The worst cause of smell was the vent filter the previous owner installed in my aft cabin closet. It's right behind the head and I suppose he thought it was a good idea. It was the worst and it stunk up the closet. The closet is cedar lined and it would be nice if it actually smelled like cedar! It was a bad idea and it actually made the ventilation worse. The first thing I replaced was the vent hose from the holding tank.
Sue didn't want the standard size toilet to stick out into the compartment too much, so I actually cut a hole in the fiberglass panel behind the toilet so that it would fit the way we wanted it. It was a bit of a project, but now that it is all trimmed-out it works very well and looks fine. I added shelving above the area that I needed to cut out and I went a little overboard. It could have been a little more compact. But it was necessary to make space because the electric toilet had a different and larger footprint so I had to do it.
That hole in the center of the panel was a mistake so I had to make a plug for it. I just bought materials from Home Depot to make this and now that it is trimmed out, it looks ok. The connections and fittings in the back of the toilet actually needed to fit in that lower compartment. I made it wider than it needed to be and if I were to do it again, I wouldn't cut into that curved wall on the right side of the picture. That was poor planning and it made it much more difficult to trim it out. I think what I did was make the boxes first and made them too wide. I ended up cutting the fiberglass to fit instead of re-making the boxes. Lazy ... and I wish I did it a bit differently!
You will need to take the cabinet out over the toilet to get access to the deck fill and the vent. Getting to the deck fill was the trickiest because there is some extra framing to remove. I needed some help from @Ward H to figure out what to remove. He saved the day after I contemplated giving up!
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All odors are a vapor in the Air. [Duh really?]
To get into the Air, the source must Vaporize a chemical.
Testing
1) Clear the Cabin out with Fresh Air and close off Cabin with you inside.
2) Sip some bottled Water, in the Cabin, and wait a while. If no odor, in say an hour, then the Source is Small.
3) Then move around till the Odor is apparent.
4) Some odors, like Wintergreen or Peppermint, diffuse or transmit, fast in the Air. Slower diffusions are Plasticizers.
Also people have different sensitivities to odors or smells. If you have more testers in the Cabin, faster to find the source.
My best guess is it is Recent Issue and Source is Small.
Jim...
PS: I am a Chemical Engineer.
To get into the Air, the source must Vaporize a chemical.
Testing
1) Clear the Cabin out with Fresh Air and close off Cabin with you inside.
2) Sip some bottled Water, in the Cabin, and wait a while. If no odor, in say an hour, then the Source is Small.
3) Then move around till the Odor is apparent.
4) Some odors, like Wintergreen or Peppermint, diffuse or transmit, fast in the Air. Slower diffusions are Plasticizers.
Also people have different sensitivities to odors or smells. If you have more testers in the Cabin, faster to find the source.
My best guess is it is Recent Issue and Source is Small.
Jim...
PS: I am a Chemical Engineer.
I will have to go home to find a picture of my old stem fitting. I was made aware after reading an article in the C320 International Association. I've been meaning to join but I haven't yet 
. I found this article after I got concerned over some rust stains that I found developing at my stem fitting. I didn't notice anything (neither did the surveyor) when I bought the boat because it was cleaned and spotless. But then rust stains began to appear in the first season. After reading this article, I replaced the stem fitting the first winter. Since I took the mast down, I decided to replace all standing rigging since it was at least 20 years old and I didn't want to feel pressure to take the mast down again over another winter to do it. I just figured I should get it over with. I suppose I could have supported the mast and left it standing, but getting the stem fitting would take time and installation would take more time. I didn't want to leave the mast standing during the wicked winds of winter with just a temporary forestay.
Luckily, Catalina Direct sells a MUCH beefier stem fitting at a very reasonable price. I made a few mistakes along the way that I can warn you about if this ever becomes an issue for you. Your later model may already have the better stem fitting. Take a look at the pictures in the article and the picture of mine below and you should see the difference.
. I found this article after I got concerned over some rust stains that I found developing at my stem fitting. I didn't notice anything (neither did the surveyor) when I bought the boat because it was cleaned and spotless. But then rust stains began to appear in the first season. After reading this article, I replaced the stem fitting the first winter. Since I took the mast down, I decided to replace all standing rigging since it was at least 20 years old and I didn't want to feel pressure to take the mast down again over another winter to do it. I just figured I should get it over with. I suppose I could have supported the mast and left it standing, but getting the stem fitting would take time and installation would take more time. I didn't want to leave the mast standing during the wicked winds of winter with just a temporary forestay.Luckily, Catalina Direct sells a MUCH beefier stem fitting at a very reasonable price. I made a few mistakes along the way that I can warn you about if this ever becomes an issue for you. Your later model may already have the better stem fitting. Take a look at the pictures in the article and the picture of mine below and you should see the difference.
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Permeated sanitation hoses have a sharp combination chemical/sewage odor, so that's the most likely source of your odor. The rag test, done correctly, will confirm or eliminate hoses as the source: wet clean rags in hot water--as hot as you can stand to handle Wring them out and put a CLEAN wet rag around every section of hose. When the rags have cooled, remove each one and smell it...if you can't smell anything on the rag, that section of hose has not permeated...if you can, it has. However, that does NOT mean you should replace only the stinky sections...replace ALL the hoses. RAritan SaniFlex is top rated, has a 10 year warranty (the average maximum working life of any hose because rubber and plastics dry out, becoming hard, brittle and prone to cracking and splitting ), against odor permeation and has the added advantage of being so flexible it can be bent almost as tight as a hairpin without kinking, make most re-hosing jobs a LOT easier.
No need to replace the holding tank unless it's metal...plastic holding tanks don't permeate. Only toilets that are designed to use pressurized fresh water should ever be connected to the fresh water plumbing.
Although it's a good idea to replace the flush water intake line (3/4") they don't permeate because they don't carry sewage (the source of odor from intake is dead and decaying micro--and sometimes NOT so micro--sealife in the intake line, pump and the channel in the rim of the bowl--which explains why the bowl can stink, so you can use flexible pvc #148 (cheap stuff) for it and also the tank vent line. It's a good idea to disconnect the intak line from the thru-hull (close the seacock first!!) and stick it in a bucket of clean fresh water to rinse it out: flush the whole bucket full all the way through the system. Or, you can reroute the head intake line to tee into the head sink drain line. Close the sink drain thru-hull, fill the with clean fresh water (NEVER use gray water...it will "gum up
the toilet pump), flush the toilet..rinsing out the entire system--intake line, pump and the channel in the rim of the bowl. This should be done as the last thing before you close up the boat to let it sit.
24 FEET of intake line??? I strongly recommend that you reroute it to tee into the head sink drain line!!
Any questions?
--Peggie