Cheap used outboard experiences

[Meriachee]

Yeah. What Leeward said.
Except that in just about 20 years of mooring on an inland lake in western Canada, I have yet to be stopped by anybody, and the closest I've seen to officialdom, is a bunch of "fish cops", who have been rumored to ask for boaters licenses on launch ramps.

Hey, when did this thread take such a left turn?

 

[Leeward Rail]

20 years of mooring on an inland lake in western Canada, I have yet to be stopped by anybody

You've moored on Wabamun for 20 years ? I did my CYA Dinghy Certification there decades ago, before the toxic train crash incident. Not that the lake was in great shape even then, if I remember correctly, due to mercury from the powerplants.

Yeah I've heard similar comments, in regards to level of enforcement. It's likely different in each area. Not sure if it's a lack of funding, or just different local management focus. Maybe it's "enforcement week" LOL
Lake size, popularity, and lake ecology does have a bearing it seems.
When I was in Riding Mtn National Park in July, they had a guy stationed at the ramp.
He was checking motor type, and for zebra mussels.
I've been stopped on Lake of the Woods by natural resources officers and every time, they checked for licences, both fishing and operators cards. But you can use whichever motor you like on that lake. Which is good since my Catalina has a 2 stroke. hehe. That said, I too am looking for a used 4 stroke, to eliminate the hassles, improve fuel consumption, and decrease pollution.

Anyone want to trade ? I'd love a tohatsu/nissan long shaft please and thank you. ;-)

 

[LooseDiamond]

Don't know about cheap but I would not be afraid of a well maintained 2 stroke. I have over the last years read the many accounts here of the horror stories of starting/maintaining a new 4 stroke. I have during this time used a Mercury 4.5 HP circa 1985. I inherited it with the boat over six years ago. I have run ethanol gas with additive all this time. Non ethanol did not seem to matter. I do not run it dry after use. I can not kill this motor. It doesn't matter if I haven't cranked it in 2 weeks or 2 months. Old gas in there right now and if I drove to the harbor I would bet a new 4 stroke that it would crank by the second pull (on the first if I cut the choke fast enough after pulling). Put a new float in the carb (pin hole leak drove me nuts trying to diagnose). and change the impeller and lower unit oil regularly is all I have done. Sometimes after 3 days on/around the islands with no wind and motoring back I look at that single cylinder and wonder how many times it has moved in and out! Obviously the 4 strokes are more powerful and fuel efficient. Also heavier and more expensive to purchase.

 

[Gene Neill]

Old 2-stroke Johnson motors, like the Johnson Sailmaster, were/are great engines. I had one from about '80; I would own another one in a heartbeat. First pull every time on regular gas after sitting a month. Parts are still available. Youtube is replete with videos of old Johnnys from as far back as the 1950's, still running like raped apes.

 

[Stu Jackson]

.............................before the toxic train crash incident. Not that the lake was in great shape even then, if I remember correctly, due to mercury from the powerplants.

....................... looking for a used 4 stroke, to eliminate the hassles, improve fuel consumption, and decrease pollution.

Who said irony is dead?

Hey, when did this thread take such a left turn?

Right turn???

Google Lake Davis, CA. A few years ago they "introduced" some "substance" to rid the lake of invasive carp.

They killed everything. Everything!!!

EXCEPT the bloody carp!

Then they did it again!!!

Ruined thousands of lives, killed tourism in the area for more than five years.

Left, right? Doesn't matter. Who's the jerk in the middle???

 

[Meriachee]

You've moored on Wabamun for 20 years ? I did my CYA Dinghy Certification there decades ago, before the toxic train crash incident. Not that the lake was in great shape even then, if I remember correctly, due to mercury from the powerplants.

Our Mac took the brunt of that morning, and the ball has long been replaced. (Never let an environmental company that cleans drilling rigs tell you the stuff is good for VC17) The lake is pretty much pristine now. Power plant all gone, the Scout and Guides camps are flourishing, and there's some larger boats in three clubs.

 

[allen-deckard]

I just want to make one mr obvious point here. I know everyone know it but nobody has said it so I will.

ANY used motor can be a good motor. ANY motor can be a piece of crap even if it's 2 weeks old. Why do I say this?

I can buy the top of the line motor have it for two weeks forgot to put the oil in when I bought it and ran it for 3 hours burning about 15 years of life off the rings not quite blowing it since I remember JUST in time. Absolutely no visible effect or even how it runs at least for a little while after the purchase. Person 2 had the motor running and dropped it in the drink while it was running causing hydraulic fracture to the cylinder head that depending on the crack either destroyed it on the spot or just took a whole lot of life off it.

OR

I buy a 60 year old motor that some guy bought new when he was a little kid has changed the oil regularly always babied the motor never even ran it at full throttle and only went fishing in the john boat every other weekend on the pond he has on his property running the motor for 5 mins every 2 weeks.

The second motor might last ya for another 60 years. The first one might last 5 years or 5 mins.

Just think all the above needs to be strongly emphasized that judging how long a motor will last that is used and going by brand, size, year, type has very little to do with how long a used motor will last.

The conversation may now resume.

 

[Meriachee]

It won't matter how much I baby the Westerbeke. It's a 2 cylinder 18hp, normally aspired, diesel forklift motor. Given the opportunity, and that's just about every time the key is turned, it will do it's best to make it's presence felt, and heard. It's been well cared for, and will probably last a very long time. That doesn't alter the thought that it's probably not in the best environment that it could be. But then it's not an outboard, because if it were, it would have been long gone - reliable or not.

 

[isaksp00]

You may want to look at the iboats forums, as that is mostly about outboards and I get a lot of advice on maintaining my 8HP Honda (about 23 yrs old). Keep in mind some older motors are no longer supported by the manufacturer for parts, though there does not seem to be an "upper age" that is standard across companies. If weight is a concern for you, the 4 cycles are heftier, and obviously more complex what with oil pumps, valves and such - but less noisy. I believe the smaller Merc motors are all made by Tohatsu (maybe another brand is too?), and the forums seem to think they are good quality. There is also a company that makes liquid propane motors, that can use tanks like for a grill - if your boat could stow one (my gas tank storage space would not work - too low). If you go with an older one, plan to be somewhat handy and buy the manufacturers service manual, or plan to pay shop rates for normal service (carb cleaning, impeller changing, fuel pump diaphragm, etc.).

 

[Leeward Rail]

Keep in mind some older motors are no longer supported by the manufacturer for parts,

+1 Assuming you buy a well maintained outboard that doesn't have any serious design flaws, you will need parts one day.
Many manufacturers have shortened their parts availability timeline, to improve revenue. They don't make money on a 40 year old outboard.
Make sure the motor is well supported by the oem and aftermarket.

 

[Benny17441]

One last comment, do not shortchange your engine selection in your boating budget. If you have to forego other items on your list to spend more and make sure you get a reliable engine just do it as there is much safety, convenience and boating enjoyment riding on this.

 

[atrometer]

I don't know anything about Thousand Islands or surrounding conditions. I assumed others would define what those conditions are. From my experience, for distance, I would say you are good for a very solid 20 miles in moderate conditions, and more like 25. For the days we ran around, we probably put about 8 miles a day on the batteries, so over those 3 days, we probably put 20 miles on without seeing the charge indicator come off full charge. If you need farther distance on only limited occasions, a small portable generator could be used for a backup. On the other hand, if you are pushing straight into a 25 mph headwind, your time will be reduced to about 2 hrs running wide open under full load. I've run it when there were white caps on every wave, and you are pulling about 40 amps. My real point is that if 3-4 HP is all you need, then the trolling motor will be just fine. If you need more HP, then the trolling motor will not work.

MANY lakes have banned 2 cycle engines, some ban ALL gas engines.

 

[kloudie1]

I am a gearhead.. and enjoy playing with anything that is a machine... I have two outboard engines.. an '81 Johnson 4 HP two stroke that served as a pirogue pusher for duck hunting and then as a dink pusher for the inflatable .. not quite enough power.. I found a 1967 Johnson 6 HP two stroke a couple of years ago for $50.. after spending $110 on parts, it runs fine.. it is the new dink pusher.. good solid engine with good compression and no bearing rattles.. The Bombardier folks who bought Evinrude/Johnson some years ago have parts pretty much available for these engines.
Only thing with old engines is ignition points; starting in '80's they have solid state ignition, which is (thought to be) more reliable..

 

[allen-deckard]

It won't matter how much I baby the Westerbeke. It's a 2 cylinder 18hp, normally aspired, diesel forklift motor. Given the opportunity, and that's just about every time the key is turned, it will do it's best to make it's presence felt, and heard. It's been well cared for, and will probably last a very long time. That doesn't alter the thought that it's probably not in the best environment that it could be. But then it's not an outboard, because if it were, it would have been long gone - reliable or not.

you lost me The westerbeke is not meant for a marine environment. All outboards are at least meant for the same purpose.

 

[Daveinet]

Not sure how they can arbitrarily ban 2 strokes. With direct injection, pollution is then 4 strokes.

 

[Leeward Rail]

Not sure how they can arbitrarily ban 2 strokes. With direct injection, pollution is then 4 strokes.

They don't "arbitrarily" ban them. Conventional 2 strokes are the target of the bans. The same ones you would find "cheap and used" as requested in this thread topic.
Direct injection outboard 2 strokes were developed to tackle the pollution issue and the regulations back in the late 90's. In fact some direct injection 2 stoke engine designs have better emissions levels than 4 strokes, with more power and less weight.

If I remember correctly Lake Powell simply says that the engine has to conform to some specific EPA regulation.

National Park regulation here in Canada says the motors need to be direct fuel injected 2 stroke, or 4 stroke. I don't know if they use a specific Canadian emission standard as a guideline.

EDIT: did a quick web search for USA regulations and got this California list as a first hit.
http://www.dbw.ca.gov/Environmental/TwoStroke/TSList.aspx
Looks like some just limit MTBE use, others ban old style 2 strokes.
Not sure what they have for regs in Wisconsin, if any.

 

[atrometer]

you lost me The westerbeke is not meant for a marine environment. All outboards are at least meant for the same purpose.

It's the same way they ban over board discharge ie/Lake Champlain you cannot have the overboard discharge connected, so before you enter from the Champlain canal you better take it apart.

 

[centerline]

The westerbeke is not meant for a marine environment.

please explain where your information comes from....
years ago John Westerbeke took different engines that were manufactured under different brand names and with his engineered design, marinized them to be used in boats.
After the retrofit they were an engine with different properties than the original, and were named Westerbeke Engines.... the fact that the original spec'd engine came out of a forklift, tractor or a car/rover makes no difference at all because after the conversion they were meant for the marine enviroment.
any "marine" engine can be converted for use in a tractor, and any automotive or industrial engine can be converted for marine use.... but specifically, the name Westerbeke indicates a marine version of that particular engine.

 

[allen-deckard]

ok I'm not sure whats going on.
Started on a thread about outboards.
Op asked what outboard is best.
If there are 50 brands (don't know how many there have been just a number) then there will be 50 opinions of 50 people.
People like what they like. This is a fact. Do a google search about what outboard is best and you'll spend the rest of your life reading people fight about it. (whats best ford or chevy is next most popular fight)
Point is they all are pretty darn close to each other.
What makes the difference is how they were maintained.

The whole thing about the westerbeake? I haven't got a clue why that even came about. Never worked on one. Never will work on one. Don't believe I've ever seen one. the author said that it was a forklift motor that wouldn't last long in a marine environment. So I commented back that "The westerbeke is not meant for a marine environment" I took the author at his word that it was a forklift motor.

So my information came from Meriachee who said "the Westerbeke. It's a 2 cylinder 18hp, normally aspired, diesel forklift motor"

So how the entire subject go so far off base I haven't a clue. The opp asked about outboards. Of which every one of them is made for water. Nobody that I know of has ever put a diesel inboard in their catalina 22 so I have no clue how the westerbeke came into it is why I asked my question.

The ONLY point I was trying to make in my first post that started all this was for the opp to try and determine how well the owner took care of the motor more than the brand. Other than condition, HP, 2 or 4 cycle, and year are the first things someone would look at and most of that is personal preference. I personally don't believe that brand should be the initial thing a purchaser should be looking at.

 

[centerline]

ok I'm not sure whats going on.

If there are 50 brands (don't know how many there have been just a number) then there will be 50 opinions of 50 people.
People like what they like. This is a fact.

Point is they all are pretty darn close to each other.
What makes the difference is how they were maintained.

The whole thing about the westerbeake? I haven't got a clue why that even came about.
the author said that it was a forklift motor that wouldn't last long in a marine environment. I took the author at his word that it was a forklift motor.


So how the entire subject go so far off base I haven't a clue.
The opp asked about outboards. Nobody that I know of has ever put a diesel inboard in their catalina 22 so I have no clue how the westerbeke came into it.....

your post is well taken and correct. but this kind of thing happens in a LOT of threads.

I edited what you wrote to answer the one important point.... the comment about the westerbeke in a thread about outboards is as misplaced as a cat in a doghouse, but it happens... then someone else, and then another makes a remark about the misplaced remark, and pretty soon its out of control with a lot of false information posted that some people will take as fact... and eventually pass along again sometime later as a fact... but it isnt.
so, when there is false information or rumors floating about, its good when someone takes the time to fix it. its really all about sharing CORRECT information, not just making comments that was formed into a fact in our mind, because of what someone else told us.
we should ALL do a bit of fact checking before making some of the comments that are posted here.... and I will say without reservation, EVERYONE who posts on this site makes an error in judgment once in awhile....