Charts? Charts? We don't need no stinking CHARTS!

[dlochner]

If I'm reading this correctly, the commercial charts named above, that are based on Raster Charts will no longer be "Official"?

Raster charts are going away because it is too expensive to keep them up to date. The chart has to be redrawn every time something changes, on a ENC chart only a few data points have to be edited. Charts can be updated and distributed more frequently. CFR 15 Subchapter F requires NOAA to release new charts within 5 days of changing them. Can't do that with Raster Charts.

Frankly, for our purposes I wouldn't worry about this at all. If you boat in an area that is subject to frequent shoaling, then by all means get the most up to date charts available. If you're cruising in unfamiliar waters, be sure to have the most up to date charts, which may not be on the chip you just boat from West Marine, update the charts as soon as possible. However, there is no legal requirement for recreational boats to carry charts. However, legal requirements and good practice are not equivalent.

 

[Ward H]

Yes indeed, this thread started as fear mongering.

Yes you are.

These kinds of statements are designed to raise emotions and border on gross fallacies and innuendo, with a not terribly disguised political point of view.

Fearmongering? I don't get it but to be sure I didn't miss something I reread John's first post twice and the posts where "Fearmongering" was mentioned.
I still don't get it.
I'm more fearful about my insurance company denying a claim after reading the "Keep Those Fire Extinguishers Up to Date" thread.

I think John raised some fair points and updated us, at least me, on the status of NOAAs change to ENC charts.
IMHO, This started out as a basis for good discussion until it was decided that John had something other than good intentions. That was wrong to do so.

edited last sentence for clarification

 

[DArcy]

I took @jssailem original post as a little tongue in cheek with a nod towards information regarding charts.

In Canada there is an allowance for not using charts in the Navigation Safety Regulations (subsection (1) describes the chart carriage requirements):
(3) Subsection (1) does not apply in the case of a vessel of less than 100 gross tonnage, if the person in charge of navigation has sufficient knowledge of the following about where the vessel is to be navigated such that the safety and efficiency of navigation in that area will not be compromised:

• (a) the location and character of charted
  • (i) shipping routes,
  • (ii) lights, buoys and marks, and
  • (iii) navigational hazards; and
• (b) the prevailing navigational conditions, taking into account such factors as tides, currents, and ice and weather patterns.

That is a big IF left open to interpretation by your legal representation and insurance company. When I have been inspected I was asked to show charts for the area I was sailing.

There is also good information regarding electronic charts in section 143 of the above link.
I have not looked through the CFR for US regulations.

 

[shemandr]

Jssailem, I know exactly what you mean by underwater hazards not be displayed on electronic chart except if it is at the correct zoom level.
I was in san Francisco bay in 35 feet of water when I noticed that my depth sounder warned me of shallow 4 feet depth. I ignored the warning since the Chart plotter was showing me plenty of water depth. After I got back to my slip I viewed my track on the chart plotter and upon zooming in I discovered that I just went over a shipwreck. There were actually 2 of them in that area. Now I avoid them. So much for charts.

I would say "So much for vector charts." The fact that hazards may not be seen at a particular zoom level makes me wary of them. I guess as another example of my obsolescence, I'd rather use raster charts which look like paper charts, do not hide information and with a compatible chart plotter can put your vessel on its position on the chart. The information on the raster chart is no more or no less than what is seen at a particular scale. I like that.

 

[JamesG161]

Here is a list of Charts being updated weekly.

Can you guess why those area are done?

NOAA Weekly Updates

I will repeat my offer to SBO Sailors.

You have a chart, I will print it on paper in color, not folded, for shipping cost to you.

Chart Printing Jim..

 

[JamesG161]

Did you know with the newest Radar and Chirp Sonar, you can see underwater hazard in front of your Sailing vessel.?

Of course, if sailing is shallow water, you need to be aware of recent things "deposited" on sea bottom.
The Coast Guard will normally mark those items.

Jim...

 

[JamesG161]

You have a chart, I will print it on paper in color, not folded, for shipping cost to you.

I can print up to 10 charts in color, for minor shipping fee.

You pick , I print, look at my post #25 for the link.

Jim...

 

[BarryL]

Hello,

Note that you have the same issues with charts printed on paper. A chart printed with a scale of 1 : 1,200,000 doesn't contain the same details as a chart with a scale of 1 : 80,000, which doesn't contain the same details as a chart with a scale of 1 : 40,000.

If you use the wrong scale you will lose detail that may be important to you. This is true for vector charts and for printed charts.

You, as a Person In Charge, are responsible for using an appropriate navigation gear.

Barry

I would say "So much for vector charts." The fact that hazards may not be seen at a particular zoom level makes me wary of them. I guess as another example of my obsolescence, I'd rather use raster charts which look like paper charts, do not hide information and with a compatible chart plotter can put your vessel on its position on the chart. The information on the raster chart is no more or no less than what is seen at a particular scale. I like that.

 

[dlochner]

Hello,

Note that you have the same issues with charts printed on paper. A chart printed with a scale of 1 : 1,200,000 doesn't contain the same details as a chart with a scale of 1 : 80,000, which doesn't contain the same details as a chart with a scale of 1 : 40,000.

If you use the wrong scale you will lose detail that may be important to you. This is true for vector charts and for printed charts.

You, as a Person In Charge, are responsible for using an appropriate navigation gear.

Barry

Yep and the Vestas crew was using the wrong scale and didn't pre-plan their route to note the rather large reef sitting in the middle of the Indian Ocean. Would have happened if they used small scale Raster Charts.

The loss with Raster charts is aesthetic. I doubt anyone will print and hang an ENC chart on the wall on the other hand there are many Raster charts hanging on walls of Yacht Clubs, camps, and homes.

Since NOAA's migration to all digital charts is old news, I'm really uncertain about the point of this thread. Kind of seems like it was a bunch of small issues thrown against the wall to see what sticks and causes controversy.

 

[Davidasailor26]

The loss with Raster charts is aesthetic. I doubt anyone will print and hang an ENC chart on the wall on the other hand there are many Raster charts hanging on walls of Yacht Clubs, camps, and homes.

The nice thing about ENC though is that the look is just the presentation layer. The same ENC data can still be drawn in the traditional raster look. NOAA has a prototype viewer at NCDS Viewer and data services so their "tiles" can be pulled down into other mapping programs.

The tile service is quite nice. I have a dashboard so I can see my historical trip data, and I like the Raster look, so I pull the raster tiles and overlay my path on them.

Admittedly you don't have the flourishes of compass roses, note blocks, and chart titles with the "authentic nautical" feel for hanging on den walls, but for navigation when you're used to the look of paper it's not a bad solution.

 

[JamesG161]

NOAA has a prototype viewer

You can do same here, but better here for Storms and more.

nowCOAST

Showing new Storms Zones too...
Jim...