Has anyone compared the costs and benefits of a chartplotter to the cost of a laptop computer and digital charts. What product seems to give the best service for the money. I sail western Lake Erie and so far have gotten along with a GPS, chart and pair of dividers but am impressed with the idea of being able to look at a screen which shows what the shore should look like and where my boat is in relation to it.
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Several pros/cons
Art: Try looking this up on the Site Search. This was discussed several weeks ago. The obvious negative about the laptop is the fact that it is down below. The pros involve the ability to use it for multiple things. e-mail, charting, etc etc. The chart plotter can be mounted in the cockpit where you can see it at all times.
Art: Try looking this up on the Site Search. This was discussed several weeks ago. The obvious negative about the laptop is the fact that it is down below. The pros involve the ability to use it for multiple things. e-mail, charting, etc etc. The chart plotter can be mounted in the cockpit where you can see it at all times.
Remember operating environments...
For saltwater sailors, a laptop has a decidedly short lifespan due to the salt air. Chart plotters are designed for this. You can buy laptops for marine environs, but be prepared to spend $$. Since you sail in Lake Erie, this isn't an issue. In any case, chartplotters (Garmin for example) have come down in price a lot lately, and you can get a greyscale version for under $500, and you can mount it in your cockpit.
For saltwater sailors, a laptop has a decidedly short lifespan due to the salt air. Chart plotters are designed for this. You can buy laptops for marine environs, but be prepared to spend $$. Since you sail in Lake Erie, this isn't an issue. In any case, chartplotters (Garmin for example) have come down in price a lot lately, and you can get a greyscale version for under $500, and you can mount it in your cockpit.
Laptop PC v. Chartplotter
Chartplotter=Inexpensive and can see from your wheel Notebook=Can't use in cockpit and expensive. Decision goes to the Chartplotter Chuckwolfe@mail.com
Chartplotter=Inexpensive and can see from your wheel Notebook=Can't use in cockpit and expensive. Decision goes to the Chartplotter Chuckwolfe@mail.com
Expensive vs Inexpensive
Chuck: I do not totally agree with your basic preception. There is a very big market for realitively inexpensive use lap tops ($300-500 range). These also are available with a color display for much greater visibility than you may get with a mono-chrome chart plotter. As far as these PC's lasting at sea. If a user would take these units home with them and not leave them on board, I think you will find that they will last. The basic component are sealed. The problem areas are going to be the CD and diskette drives which can be removed from many units until they are needed. This is NOT to say that they are a sea friendly as a chartplotter either. IMHO the additional functionallity of charting, email, course planning and the other functions that a PC can provide make it more than a toy for a rich boater. We can sit on our starboard seat and see the charts as we are sailing. We place the PC on our chart table and just mosey down the river. The laptop also offer a larger display and the ability to do your route planning at home. The chartplotters offer the advantage of having a display right in front of the wheel, unless you want to sit up under the dodger out of the weather. Too many options, not enough time and money.
Chuck: I do not totally agree with your basic preception. There is a very big market for realitively inexpensive use lap tops ($300-500 range). These also are available with a color display for much greater visibility than you may get with a mono-chrome chart plotter. As far as these PC's lasting at sea. If a user would take these units home with them and not leave them on board, I think you will find that they will last. The basic component are sealed. The problem areas are going to be the CD and diskette drives which can be removed from many units until they are needed. This is NOT to say that they are a sea friendly as a chartplotter either. IMHO the additional functionallity of charting, email, course planning and the other functions that a PC can provide make it more than a toy for a rich boater. We can sit on our starboard seat and see the charts as we are sailing. We place the PC on our chart table and just mosey down the river. The laptop also offer a larger display and the ability to do your route planning at home. The chartplotters offer the advantage of having a display right in front of the wheel, unless you want to sit up under the dodger out of the weather. Too many options, not enough time and money.
try both
I have both aboard Sugar Magnolia. I use the PC to plot new routes, as a trip and maint. log and other stuff. I think routes are easier to plan on the PC with CDROM charts. It is connected to the GPS/AP and drives the boat. The waypoints are repeated on the CP, also with a GPS link, in the cockpit. I have real peace of mind, albeit at a cost. You can purchase a refurb laptop with a cheap display and purchase a separate 15" LCD display. Then you can tuck the PC away is some nice protected spot. Get one with a dvd player and watch movies on the display and use the pc also as a cd player by wiring it into your stereo system. True convergence. If the PC crashes, which is seldom, the route and waypoints have been downloaded to the CP which I can then use if needed. If you go this route, insere that the s/w you purchase for the PC can download to whatever CP you purchase for the cockpit.
I have both aboard Sugar Magnolia. I use the PC to plot new routes, as a trip and maint. log and other stuff. I think routes are easier to plan on the PC with CDROM charts. It is connected to the GPS/AP and drives the boat. The waypoints are repeated on the CP, also with a GPS link, in the cockpit. I have real peace of mind, albeit at a cost. You can purchase a refurb laptop with a cheap display and purchase a separate 15" LCD display. Then you can tuck the PC away is some nice protected spot. Get one with a dvd player and watch movies on the display and use the pc also as a cd player by wiring it into your stereo system. True convergence. If the PC crashes, which is seldom, the route and waypoints have been downloaded to the CP which I can then use if needed. If you go this route, insere that the s/w you purchase for the PC can download to whatever CP you purchase for the cockpit.
raster charts
PC-based chart programs only give you raster charts, which are really just digital images of paper charts. Think of them as "dumb charts." Chart plotters, and here I'm speaking of the type that use C-Map NT chart chips, provide you with vector charts, which you can think of as "smart charts." An example of why a vector chart is better can be found if you select a "heading up" mode rather than a "north up" mode and then proceed south: the raster chart will be displaying all the lettering and numerals upside down while the vector chart will automatically reconfigure the labels. You'll spend somewhat more for the chips than the CD charts, but you'll get more out of them. Another advantage of chart plotters is that they are built for 12 volt systems, unlike most modern laptops which are going to require you to run the inverter or a generator on long passages. I have a laptop on board, as well as a chart plotter, but only use the laptop for email and weather fax because the chart plotter does so much better a job.
PC-based chart programs only give you raster charts, which are really just digital images of paper charts. Think of them as "dumb charts." Chart plotters, and here I'm speaking of the type that use C-Map NT chart chips, provide you with vector charts, which you can think of as "smart charts." An example of why a vector chart is better can be found if you select a "heading up" mode rather than a "north up" mode and then proceed south: the raster chart will be displaying all the lettering and numerals upside down while the vector chart will automatically reconfigure the labels. You'll spend somewhat more for the chips than the CD charts, but you'll get more out of them. Another advantage of chart plotters is that they are built for 12 volt systems, unlike most modern laptops which are going to require you to run the inverter or a generator on long passages. I have a laptop on board, as well as a chart plotter, but only use the laptop for email and weather fax because the chart plotter does so much better a job.
John F - FYI
John: Jeppsen Marine does supply vector charts for a PC. I must assume that this will be the wave of the future. The vector technology takes much less space and has the advantages that you mentioned on the chartplotter.
John: Jeppsen Marine does supply vector charts for a PC. I must assume that this will be the wave of the future. The vector technology takes much less space and has the advantages that you mentioned on the chartplotter.
vector charts
I have a cmap cartridge reader that attaches to my pc via the parallel port so I can use the cartridges there as well but haven't really used it much. It's still easier to plot a new route with a mouse/trackball at a computer, on either a raster or vector chart, than by standing at the helm moving the cursor around with the little touchpad on the small display on the CP. The CP with cartridge at the helm will display all the waypoints and route configured previously in leisure on the PC. Most current laptops run on 12V as their native voltage and require a dc supply to run on ac. The interface is normally a cigarette type plug one would use on an airplane. Although I have a large inverter, I've tried to migrate towards goodies that run 12V native as it's more efficient. Even my LCD display is 12V native. Only my VCR and microwave are still 110V. If I could find a stereo 12V VCR, I'd probably replace the one on the boat and bring it home. You can also easily take the laptop PC home when you reach port.
I have a cmap cartridge reader that attaches to my pc via the parallel port so I can use the cartridges there as well but haven't really used it much. It's still easier to plot a new route with a mouse/trackball at a computer, on either a raster or vector chart, than by standing at the helm moving the cursor around with the little touchpad on the small display on the CP. The CP with cartridge at the helm will display all the waypoints and route configured previously in leisure on the PC. Most current laptops run on 12V as their native voltage and require a dc supply to run on ac. The interface is normally a cigarette type plug one would use on an airplane. Although I have a large inverter, I've tried to migrate towards goodies that run 12V native as it's more efficient. Even my LCD display is 12V native. Only my VCR and microwave are still 110V. If I could find a stereo 12V VCR, I'd probably replace the one on the boat and bring it home. You can also easily take the laptop PC home when you reach port.
Too much duplication
I have both an Autohelm chartplotter at the helm, and a notebook PC running "The Capn" software on CD-ROM below. Each has its virtues and limitations, as discussed in this thread, but the biggest waste is that they can not both share the same software, and I have had to buy both the CD-ROMs and the CMap/NT modules. I understand that Raytheon now has software ( think its called "Navigator"?) that allows the computer and the chartplotter to both share charts over the SeaTalk network. Does anyone have any experience with this program, as I'd like to know if it would worth replacing The Capn (which I paid a heafty price for). Thanks
I have both an Autohelm chartplotter at the helm, and a notebook PC running "The Capn" software on CD-ROM below. Each has its virtues and limitations, as discussed in this thread, but the biggest waste is that they can not both share the same software, and I have had to buy both the CD-ROMs and the CMap/NT modules. I understand that Raytheon now has software ( think its called "Navigator"?) that allows the computer and the chartplotter to both share charts over the SeaTalk network. Does anyone have any experience with this program, as I'd like to know if it would worth replacing The Capn (which I paid a heafty price for). Thanks
George, RayChart
Raytheon sells a CP software product for PC which reads raster or vector charts and interfaces with your Autohelm CP. They advertise a PCMCIA adapter which reads C-map cartridges, but it is not available yet. The software does not read any NMEA sentences but lat and lon, so unless you have a SeaTalk GPS, you are rather limited. Ray's answer to integrate their product with NMEA is an additional $100 NMEA to SeaTalk converter box. Ray's program does not support waypoint or route transfer via NMEA either. If you do have a full SeaTalk system, you can purchase add-on modules that let you display other SeaTalk info on the laptop, like depth and wind direction. Jeff Jones Escapade
Raytheon sells a CP software product for PC which reads raster or vector charts and interfaces with your Autohelm CP. They advertise a PCMCIA adapter which reads C-map cartridges, but it is not available yet. The software does not read any NMEA sentences but lat and lon, so unless you have a SeaTalk GPS, you are rather limited. Ray's answer to integrate their product with NMEA is an additional $100 NMEA to SeaTalk converter box. Ray's program does not support waypoint or route transfer via NMEA either. If you do have a full SeaTalk system, you can purchase add-on modules that let you display other SeaTalk info on the laptop, like depth and wind direction. Jeff Jones Escapade
Navigator
Ihave been using Chartview pro for sometime but recently added Raytheon Navigator to my PC for the reasons cited. It interfaces nicely with my Seatalk system, I have autohelm instruments and a raytheon DGPS with seatalk. My biggest complaint to date, and the reason I still use mainly CV, is the difficulty in route planning and editing. It's not nearly as quick and easy. Once done however, it interfaces with the 630 CP I have at the helm transferring WPs and routes nicely and allowing any changes at either the CP or PC to be reflected at the other. On the PC it will also display the laylines to the next WP when it gets wind info over the seatalk network. I'm still playing with it and writing friendly suggestions to Raytheon. I have a local CMAP cartridge on the CP. I bought the parallel port reader for my PC on a whim but have only used it to see if it worked. Email me directly if you want to discuss further, deissew@earthlink.net
Ihave been using Chartview pro for sometime but recently added Raytheon Navigator to my PC for the reasons cited. It interfaces nicely with my Seatalk system, I have autohelm instruments and a raytheon DGPS with seatalk. My biggest complaint to date, and the reason I still use mainly CV, is the difficulty in route planning and editing. It's not nearly as quick and easy. Once done however, it interfaces with the 630 CP I have at the helm transferring WPs and routes nicely and allowing any changes at either the CP or PC to be reflected at the other. On the PC it will also display the laylines to the next WP when it gets wind info over the seatalk network. I'm still playing with it and writing friendly suggestions to Raytheon. I have a local CMAP cartridge on the CP. I bought the parallel port reader for my PC on a whim but have only used it to see if it worked. Email me directly if you want to discuss further, deissew@earthlink.net
Get the PC
I keep the laptop downstairs on the nav station. I have a plasma monitor in the cockpit for viewing my position in 15-inch, bright, clear color. It is far superior to the chartplotter I had on my old boat. The plasma monitor operated directly off of the 12 vdc power on the boat. I installed a seperate small inverter for the laptop so I don't have to operate the 2500 watt main inverter. The Chartplotter charts had very little useful info for a sailor. With a 5 foot draft I want to see the 6-foot line, not the 15-foot line that I got with the grossly over priced vector charts. My system has been in a salt water environment for over a year with no failures.
I keep the laptop downstairs on the nav station. I have a plasma monitor in the cockpit for viewing my position in 15-inch, bright, clear color. It is far superior to the chartplotter I had on my old boat. The plasma monitor operated directly off of the 12 vdc power on the boat. I installed a seperate small inverter for the laptop so I don't have to operate the 2500 watt main inverter. The Chartplotter charts had very little useful info for a sailor. With a 5 foot draft I want to see the 6-foot line, not the 15-foot line that I got with the grossly over priced vector charts. My system has been in a salt water environment for over a year with no failures.
Art, your E-mail?
Art, we cruise the same waters. E-mail me so we can talk. jeffrjones@msn.com Jeff Jones Escapade
Art, we cruise the same waters. E-mail me so we can talk. jeffrjones@msn.com Jeff Jones Escapade
Who's display Larry?
Who, and how much? I am interested in adding a similar display. Jeff Jones Escapade
Who, and how much? I am interested in adding a similar display. Jeff Jones Escapade
cockpit pc display
me too. Who's display and was it difficult to extend the svga cable to the display from the nav sta. What type small inverter are you using. I tried with a 800w Jazz but it quit in a few weeks.
me too. Who's display and was it difficult to extend the svga cable to the display from the nav sta. What type small inverter are you using. I tried with a 800w Jazz but it quit in a few weeks.
Cockpit Monitor
I used an AcerView Model F-51 from CompUSA for $999.99. It came with a transformer that plugged in to 115vac and converted to 12vdc. I connected it directly to the 12vdc ships power thru the breaker panel. I used a 10 foot monitor extension cable from CompUSA. The monitor is mounted on the coachroof just to port of the sliding companionway hatch. I had to drill one large (1-1/4") hole to get the db-15 monitor cable thru. After running the cabling, I filled the hole with 3M 5200. Cabling was my least favorite part of the project. I ran the cables to just above the working surface of the nav station and brought them out there for easy connection to the PC. I have the Garmin cable for power and data connected to the same breaker as the monitor. The Garmin GPSIII is on top of some books above the nav station and near a window. It always seems to get good reception there and I like it out of the weather and protected as its predecessor got water inside and quit workingat a very inopportune time. The monitor is inside the area of the dodger so it doesn't get a lot of direct contact with water. I made a custom Sunbrella cover for the monitor that protects it when it is not in use. Bill, I can't explain your bad luck, but I have a 300w continuous/600w surge inverter from Wal-Mart. It powers the Dell PentiumIII laptop just fine.
I used an AcerView Model F-51 from CompUSA for $999.99. It came with a transformer that plugged in to 115vac and converted to 12vdc. I connected it directly to the 12vdc ships power thru the breaker panel. I used a 10 foot monitor extension cable from CompUSA. The monitor is mounted on the coachroof just to port of the sliding companionway hatch. I had to drill one large (1-1/4") hole to get the db-15 monitor cable thru. After running the cabling, I filled the hole with 3M 5200. Cabling was my least favorite part of the project. I ran the cables to just above the working surface of the nav station and brought them out there for easy connection to the PC. I have the Garmin cable for power and data connected to the same breaker as the monitor. The Garmin GPSIII is on top of some books above the nav station and near a window. It always seems to get good reception there and I like it out of the weather and protected as its predecessor got water inside and quit workingat a very inopportune time. The monitor is inside the area of the dodger so it doesn't get a lot of direct contact with water. I made a custom Sunbrella cover for the monitor that protects it when it is not in use. Bill, I can't explain your bad luck, but I have a 300w continuous/600w surge inverter from Wal-Mart. It powers the Dell PentiumIII laptop just fine.
just a bad one
Bill: I am not sure what happened either but I have a $40-50 unit. Much lower wattage and it runs the laptop just fine. I would return the one that went bad and just get a small one 150w should be fine.
Bill: I am not sure what happened either but I have a $40-50 unit. Much lower wattage and it runs the laptop just fine. I would return the one that went bad and just get a small one 150w should be fine.
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