How long should it take a competent yard to do this on a Hunter 29.5? I got charged for 13.5 hours to replace the cutlass bearing, and 3.2 hours for attaching a new mixing elbow that was already pre-assembled to the exhaust neck. I'd like to challenge the hours, so I seek feedback from other sailors. Thanks.
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Wow!
I got an estimate for $360 for cutless bearing replacement. It think the part is about $60, so that would make it about 6 hours of labor.
I got an estimate for $360 for cutless bearing replacement. It think the part is about $60, so that would make it about 6 hours of labor.
Did it myself
In December I replaced the Cutlass Bearing. Hunter 31 / 1984. I did not have the right pulley, so I had to drop the rudder to get the propshaft out and saw the bearing in 2 pieces. I don't know the exact hours, cause I had the Boat on the dry for 2 weeks(Bottom Job). The Bearing was $69 at West Marine.I think a Professional with the right tools should take no longer then 3hours of work with 2 workers. It's not a big job at all with the right tools. I think someone with experiance can do it in 60 minutes. (I have photos of that project). sb
In December I replaced the Cutlass Bearing. Hunter 31 / 1984. I did not have the right pulley, so I had to drop the rudder to get the propshaft out and saw the bearing in 2 pieces. I don't know the exact hours, cause I had the Boat on the dry for 2 weeks(Bottom Job). The Bearing was $69 at West Marine.I think a Professional with the right tools should take no longer then 3hours of work with 2 workers. It's not a big job at all with the right tools. I think someone with experiance can do it in 60 minutes. (I have photos of that project). sb
Just Called....
I just called our local ripoff yard and got a price... If your boat doesn't have a strut it is 2 to 3 hours. If it has a strut it is 8 to 9 hours. There is also a haulout charge of $9.00 a foot. I think their rate is $65.00 and hour. This is why, I, like a lot of others, do my own work. An $850.00 cutlass bearing is nuts. I did a complete bottom job on my H37C, cut a through hull, replace hoses, varnished and countless other little jobs that I can't even recall and it didn't cost $850.00 Hope this helps in your fight, but I think you're gonna end up paying it...
Ron
I just called our local ripoff yard and got a price... If your boat doesn't have a strut it is 2 to 3 hours. If it has a strut it is 8 to 9 hours. There is also a haulout charge of $9.00 a foot. I think their rate is $65.00 and hour. This is why, I, like a lot of others, do my own work. An $850.00 cutlass bearing is nuts. I did a complete bottom job on my H37C, cut a through hull, replace hoses, varnished and countless other little jobs that I can't even recall and it didn't cost $850.00 Hope this helps in your fight, but I think you're gonna end up paying it...
RonSeems like too much
This seems really high. I had my cutlass bearing done about a year ago at one of the more expensive marinas in the Bay Area. Total work time was under 3 hours and parts were under $100. This was on a 1985 H31.
This seems really high. I had my cutlass bearing done about a year ago at one of the more expensive marinas in the Bay Area. Total work time was under 3 hours and parts were under $100. This was on a 1985 H31.
Well, good luck...
I also have a 29.5. Luckily for me, the bearing is still in decent shape. One thing about a 29.5...at least on mine (1994), the strut is molded right into the hull. I had replaced the cutlass bearing on my old h27, and though it was a tough job, it was easier with just the bolted on strut. I am guessing that the job becomes VERY complicated with a molded in strut, as you can only "slide" the bearing in without the use of a C-clamp. These bearings are VERY fragile with regard to putting any kind of force (pounding in, or c-clamping or whatever), so, yes, the yard may have screwed you over, but, maybe not due to the complexity of the bearing on a 29.5. As far as the mixing elbow is concerned, unfortunately, I can't help you...good luck though...
I also have a 29.5. Luckily for me, the bearing is still in decent shape. One thing about a 29.5...at least on mine (1994), the strut is molded right into the hull. I had replaced the cutlass bearing on my old h27, and though it was a tough job, it was easier with just the bolted on strut. I am guessing that the job becomes VERY complicated with a molded in strut, as you can only "slide" the bearing in without the use of a C-clamp. These bearings are VERY fragile with regard to putting any kind of force (pounding in, or c-clamping or whatever), so, yes, the yard may have screwed you over, but, maybe not due to the complexity of the bearing on a 29.5. As far as the mixing elbow is concerned, unfortunately, I can't help you...good luck though...
$150 is my yard's estimate
for the bearing on our '77 h27. That's 3 hours plus the new bearing. David Lady Lillie
for the bearing on our '77 h27. That's 3 hours plus the new bearing. David Lady Lillie
Why not just call 'em and ask 'em why
it took 13.5 hours to change your cutless bearing? It could just be a typo in entering the invoice.
it took 13.5 hours to change your cutless bearing? It could just be a typo in entering the invoice.
my dog could change a cutlass bearing
in 13.5 hours! Hopefully it is a typo and your yard will make an adjusment. My boat required removing the strut, disconnecting the coupling and removing the coupling from the shaft to change the bearing. Total was 2.5 hours labor.
in 13.5 hours! Hopefully it is a typo and your yard will make an adjusment. My boat required removing the strut, disconnecting the coupling and removing the coupling from the shaft to change the bearing. Total was 2.5 hours labor.
The 29.5 does not have....
a conventional strut. It is molded into the hull creating a number of problems...1.) if you need to change the cutlass bearing, you are going to have a struggle ahead of you. (I hope I never need to do this before moving up) 2.)just an fyi, there is literally no way to add a zinc to the shaft. I agree that 13.5 hours is excessive, but I will also say (after looking at a photo of my boat's shaft/strut assembly), that replacing the cutlass bearing ON A 29.5 is going to be no picnic. I've tried to attach photo's here before to no avail, so anybody that wants to see the pic, shoot me an email. Again, I have some experience replacing the bearing on my former boat (took me about two hours), but that was fairly easy to do. I am thinking a 29.5 is another story...
a conventional strut. It is molded into the hull creating a number of problems...1.) if you need to change the cutlass bearing, you are going to have a struggle ahead of you. (I hope I never need to do this before moving up) 2.)just an fyi, there is literally no way to add a zinc to the shaft. I agree that 13.5 hours is excessive, but I will also say (after looking at a photo of my boat's shaft/strut assembly), that replacing the cutlass bearing ON A 29.5 is going to be no picnic. I've tried to attach photo's here before to no avail, so anybody that wants to see the pic, shoot me an email. Again, I have some experience replacing the bearing on my former boat (took me about two hours), but that was fairly easy to do. I am thinking a 29.5 is another story...
Bearing puller
My understanding is that the strut need not come off. Instead, a "bearing puller" puts an even pressure against the cutlass bearing, and gently forces it out. There is a design for one somewhere in the archives. David Lady Lillie
My understanding is that the strut need not come off. Instead, a "bearing puller" puts an even pressure against the cutlass bearing, and gently forces it out. There is a design for one somewhere in the archives. David Lady Lillie
Tim's right
There's no strut on the 29.5. One end of the cutlass bearing is exposed, the other is essentially molded into the shaft tube. There's only access to one end of the bearing. I'd ask Hunter what the procedure is to change the bearing and how long it should take. There's probably an easy way to do it, but your yard might not have figured it out.
There's no strut on the 29.5. One end of the cutlass bearing is exposed, the other is essentially molded into the shaft tube. There's only access to one end of the bearing. I'd ask Hunter what the procedure is to change the bearing and how long it should take. There's probably an easy way to do it, but your yard might not have figured it out.
Quality of Workmanship?
If they really did take that long and the time did not include fetching the boat and lifting her out etc, then I would also look VERY carefully at their workmanship. Maybe they just put two or more men on the job!
If they really did take that long and the time did not include fetching the boat and lifting her out etc, then I would also look VERY carefully at their workmanship. Maybe they just put two or more men on the job!
some folks are honest, some arn't
call the hunter dealer and ask how much their flat rate book pays for the repair and then sue them in small claims court if they won't make it right. 'Snap on tools' makes a puller for these type of repairs, i think the set was about 1500 10 years ago and i think the one you would need cost about 125. the bearing drivers cost 300; 'hayden trans tools' for the set. i think the one for your application is about 40. i either use a ball joint press or sometimes a hammer. if you have the right driver it goes right in. sometimes i cut the old one out with a u shaped chisil, called a bushing cutter 'snap on tools' 20. i would estimate it would take an hour if you loaf and i would charge about 3.5 hours. i've never seen your application so i'm just saying for the one's i've seen. if your shop doesn't have the right tools to do the job then it probably would take longer, that is not your fault, thats what flat rate books are for. you shouldn't be expected to pay for their learning experiences and or their lak of 1000 dollR TOOL SETS. they publish the flat rate books so that the dealers know what the warranty rates pay. ALSO TO PROVIDE A FAIR LABOUR STANDARDS. ON ELECTICAL; WE USUALLY STAmP THE TICKKET with a time clock so that the customer can verify the actual time we spent on the job. for me i'd rather be a d..ssss than a thief.
call the hunter dealer and ask how much their flat rate book pays for the repair and then sue them in small claims court if they won't make it right. 'Snap on tools' makes a puller for these type of repairs, i think the set was about 1500 10 years ago and i think the one you would need cost about 125. the bearing drivers cost 300; 'hayden trans tools' for the set. i think the one for your application is about 40. i either use a ball joint press or sometimes a hammer. if you have the right driver it goes right in. sometimes i cut the old one out with a u shaped chisil, called a bushing cutter 'snap on tools' 20. i would estimate it would take an hour if you loaf and i would charge about 3.5 hours. i've never seen your application so i'm just saying for the one's i've seen. if your shop doesn't have the right tools to do the job then it probably would take longer, that is not your fault, thats what flat rate books are for. you shouldn't be expected to pay for their learning experiences and or their lak of 1000 dollR TOOL SETS. they publish the flat rate books so that the dealers know what the warranty rates pay. ALSO TO PROVIDE A FAIR LABOUR STANDARDS. ON ELECTICAL; WE USUALLY STAmP THE TICKKET with a time clock so that the customer can verify the actual time we spent on the job. for me i'd rather be a d..ssss than a thief.
Thats the price of boat ownweship
Hows this. I noticed my prop shaft was ever so slightly bent this last haul out. I had been experiencing some vibration so I asked the yard if they could send the shaft out to be straightened. Guess what! the shaft was scored a where the cutlass bearing and it meet. One new shaft and one new cutlass beating and a lot of hours installing - reshimming the engine mounts (on which the hardware was frozen)and my bill came to $1400.00 But I got a brand new shaft! Moral of the story - If you can always do it yourself. If not you will pay.
Hows this. I noticed my prop shaft was ever so slightly bent this last haul out. I had been experiencing some vibration so I asked the yard if they could send the shaft out to be straightened. Guess what! the shaft was scored a where the cutlass bearing and it meet. One new shaft and one new cutlass beating and a lot of hours installing - reshimming the engine mounts (on which the hardware was frozen)and my bill came to $1400.00 But I got a brand new shaft! Moral of the story - If you can always do it yourself. If not you will pay.
Cutless Bearing Replacment
Replacing a cutless bearing on a free standing strut isn't a complicated job, in the past I have always put the new bearing on ice while I remove the existing. Now remember, the prop either has to come off the shaft to be able to push the old bearing out or the shaft has to be removed, both these jobs can be a pain in the butt. Sometimes a prop will literally fall off while others no matter how much heat and tons of puller pressure is applied are a fight all the way. I have burned through 8 hrs on this - 6 hrs to get a corroded shaft out and back in again and 2hrs to change the bearing! As for the recessed cutless bearing these are a pain and the shaft has to come out and if the coupling is siezed onto the shaft (as they usually are!) it can add many hours! Just for info installing a cutless bearing is a piece of cake for an exposed strut - cool the bearing in ice (not dry ice as too cool a temp can damage the bond between the rubber and the bronze case)for a couple of hours and then when the strut is nice and clean and polished heat it up with a torch or a good industrial heat gun to about 300 degrees (go to an industrial supply place for some "temp sticks" which are used to measure the temperature of bearings that are being heated to install on shafts - it melts when the temp of the base metal gets to 300 degrees - or whatever temperature you buy them for) once the strut is hotslide the cooled cutless bearing quickly into place. The difference in temps creates a .003 - .004" clearance which allows these parts to slide with out interference. This is how we do it when we replace bearings on shafts and in rotating apparatus. Have a big c clamp handy in case you get it caught to press it in the rest of the way - I have installed many like this and works slick every time - no hammers, no cursing - no problems! Sit down with the yard manager and ask for a detailed explanation of what they had to do before you go running to court!
Replacing a cutless bearing on a free standing strut isn't a complicated job, in the past I have always put the new bearing on ice while I remove the existing. Now remember, the prop either has to come off the shaft to be able to push the old bearing out or the shaft has to be removed, both these jobs can be a pain in the butt. Sometimes a prop will literally fall off while others no matter how much heat and tons of puller pressure is applied are a fight all the way. I have burned through 8 hrs on this - 6 hrs to get a corroded shaft out and back in again and 2hrs to change the bearing! As for the recessed cutless bearing these are a pain and the shaft has to come out and if the coupling is siezed onto the shaft (as they usually are!) it can add many hours! Just for info installing a cutless bearing is a piece of cake for an exposed strut - cool the bearing in ice (not dry ice as too cool a temp can damage the bond between the rubber and the bronze case)for a couple of hours and then when the strut is nice and clean and polished heat it up with a torch or a good industrial heat gun to about 300 degrees (go to an industrial supply place for some "temp sticks" which are used to measure the temperature of bearings that are being heated to install on shafts - it melts when the temp of the base metal gets to 300 degrees - or whatever temperature you buy them for) once the strut is hotslide the cooled cutless bearing quickly into place. The difference in temps creates a .003 - .004" clearance which allows these parts to slide with out interference. This is how we do it when we replace bearings on shafts and in rotating apparatus. Have a big c clamp handy in case you get it caught to press it in the rest of the way - I have installed many like this and works slick every time - no hammers, no cursing - no problems! Sit down with the yard manager and ask for a detailed explanation of what they had to do before you go running to court!
Great information bearsails,
Seriously! But did you know your 'handle' initials are BS? Having said that, your suggestions are very valuable. But, going to court is the U.S. (American Way)!
Seriously! But did you know your 'handle' initials are BS? Having said that, your suggestions are very valuable. But, going to court is the U.S. (American Way)!
bear sails is number one
great tip on heating and all. we used to replace the ring gears on flywheels that way; i don't live near salt water, so i'm not used to all that corrosion. i probably would call the customer before i started if i saw it was going to turn into a major nightmare and let him know it was going to cost a lot. it almost seems with 13.5 labor it would almost be cheaper to get a new part and put it on instead. thats around a 1000 labor where i live. maybe not, but i like to use new parts on my jobs, i've found if the difference is within 30% that the customers are more satisfied with the results. a new one gives the customer a greater sense of quality than a rebuilt one. especially with the attrocious quality of work ive seen done in the name of making money. also the manufact usually warranties a new part. should a rebuilt 'come back' its on the shop to pay next time.
great tip on heating and all. we used to replace the ring gears on flywheels that way; i don't live near salt water, so i'm not used to all that corrosion. i probably would call the customer before i started if i saw it was going to turn into a major nightmare and let him know it was going to cost a lot. it almost seems with 13.5 labor it would almost be cheaper to get a new part and put it on instead. thats around a 1000 labor where i live. maybe not, but i like to use new parts on my jobs, i've found if the difference is within 30% that the customers are more satisfied with the results. a new one gives the customer a greater sense of quality than a rebuilt one. especially with the attrocious quality of work ive seen done in the name of making money. also the manufact usually warranties a new part. should a rebuilt 'come back' its on the shop to pay next time.
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