Changing from furling to hanked-on headsail...help

[Greg2230]

I've recently found my 19 year old Hood furler about shot. Rather than replace the furler I've taken advantage of a great deal I've found for a couple of hanked-on headsails. My question: with the furling genny, the sail tack was secured to the top of the furling drum. This was bout 10 inches above the deck. When securing a hanked-on headsail do I attach it directly to the deck or should I make a leader to raise the headsail 12 or 18" above the deck?If your sails are hanked do you secure the tack right to the deck or not? Thanks!

 

[Tom]

Depends

You may need to experiment with the new-to-you headsails, especially to get the proper lead (angle) to your sheet fairleads. That might be quite different than the angle for your existing furling sail, maybe even outside the adjustment range posssible on your fairlead track. So, to experiment with the tack height, you might consider using a less permanent (non-wire) pennant (you refer to as a "leader") first, such as tying a line from the sail's tack to the attachment point at your bow. Then you can try to vary that length over time to see what works vs. what height does not work. Once you decide on a line length that works for that sail, you can make a permanent pennant out of wire and nicropress sleeves from West Marine. Some West Marine stores also have a table with a swager available to use in their stores.

 

[Joe]

The sail's cut will dictate

how high you can tack it. Most cruisers like the sail up off the deck because it improves visibility, handling and stays drier. Racers like full-cut, deck sweeper set-ups for better performance. Go down to west marine and build a few pennants of different lengths to keep on your boat, they're pretty handy to have on board.

 

[Ed A]

I have done both,

I have used both, but i did like the higher setup so i could see under it. then you would need the pennant, but dont forget to hank the tack of the jib to the headstay too if you use a pennant, that will keep the luff straight all the way down. Secondly you my be able to run a tighter headstay than you counld have with the roller furler. I had a snap shackle on the end of the pennant to make removal easy.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Pennants

Good ideas.My experience has been that metal pennants, whether at the head or tack of the sail, just don't work, and we have been using super strong but thin spectra line as a tack pennant for three years now. The head of the jib is attached directly to the roller furling upper swivel.The reason is that the both the luff of the jib and the jib halyard will stretch, so a metal pennant will require you to revise the jib halyard tension anyway.We have gotten into the habit of easily releasing the "string" at the tack of the jib before we furl it, so the tension's off the luff of the jib before it's furled.It's your choice as to whether you want a high or low tack, with advantages and ideas discussed by the other respondents.If you go to hanked on sails, try running a new jib downhaul line to the top or second hank, and use this to douse the jib right on the foredeck by back-winding it starting from a port tack to a starboard heave to. Royce's Sailing Illustrated shows how to run the line back to the cockpit, through a small block at the forestay fitting. By doing this, you'll avoid a lot of work that you didn't have with your furling gear, and the sail will pretty much flake itself on the foredeck. All you have to do is roll it up and bag it, or get a deck bag, leave the sail hanked on and mounted ready to go.Stu

 

[Greg2230]

Thanks! Stu, one more question...

Guess I had the right idea but wrong terminology. Thanks!Stu, you've brought up another question...when done sailing for the day, should the sail be carefully flaked and rolled or just rolled and stuffed into the bag or deck bag? A friend has a Mac Venture 21 and he just drops and stuffs his headsails into deck bags. These sails that I bought are still very crisp and folded into the sail bags.

 

[Steve677]

Fold 'em..

I don't have a furling system on my H23 so I have to haul in my head sail at the end of a day. Or swap them out as needed... I don't have room on deck to fold them nicely so I stuff what ever I use into a sail bag and take them home with me. If they are damp I hang them in the garage to dry before stretching them out in the yard to fold. I don't like to just stuff them in a bag and leave them on the boat.

 

[Herb Parsons]

Our Solution

We used to just stuff our headsail into a bag on our O'Day 25. We eventually bought a bag to leave the headsail hanked on, and in a bag. We found the best way to use it is flake the sail, then roll it up, that was about the only way to make it all fit.After doing that, we found that the sail was much easier to deploy, Pull the bag off, grab the sheets, and it rolls out.We haven't bought a second one yet, for our other headsail, but that's our plan. I believe that it will make it fairly easy to hank-on while still in the bag. We'll see though.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Greg, Sails and Care

GregIf you use the "back-winding the jib" method I described above, the sail is essentially already folded! That's because the hanks, being on the left side of the sail, hold it on the forestay, so when you pull down on the downhaul, the hanks hold on and the pieces of the sail between the hanks ends up going to port, and will pretty much fold the sail as if you were doing it on a dock.Once the sail is down on the foredeck, you just need to arrange it a bit, and then roll it up. It should be "pre-folded". I usually did it from aft to forward, and then took off the hanks last. You could also, at this point, use a bag and leave it hanked on, but the point is to fold it carefully and neatly. Stuffing anything is bad for the sail. Neatness, as mom always said, DOES count! I stored the jib sheets with the sail, but you could also take them off the clew and leave them running through the blocks. Up to you. I had two jibs, an 85 and a 110, and kept the jib sheets with each sail.Hope that's clear enough. Any more questions, let me know.Stu

 

[Dan McGuire]

My MAC 23

My MAC 23 is cutter rigged so it has two headsails. I leave both of them hanked on the forestays. The most forward (staysail or outer jib) goes into a bag. I don't like this arrangement. It is hard to reach and awkward. The aft headsail(yankee or inner jib) goes into a sail cover similar to the main sail. I like this arrangement. It is very easy to use. I am thinking about changing the outer jib to a sail cover similar to the inner jib and main sail. As for the height, I use 3/8" line so that I can change it. I tend to leave both about 12" above the deck. It is a compromise between performance and visibility.

 

[Joe]

Not sure about your terminology, Dan

My understanding is that on a cutter rig the staysail is attached to the inner forestay, the jib or genoa is the leading sail attached to the forestay. The main is attached to the mast.

 

[Dan McGuire]

Cutters

I have heard many different names for the foresails on a cutter. When I bought it, I asked the instructor what he called them. He just said fore and aft. Inner and outer appears to be the most discriptive. One source which I thought was authoritive called the aft foresail a Yankee and the foreward foresail a stay sail. Technically both foresails are stay sails since they are hanked onto the forestays.Your opinion is as good as any. I tend to call them the inner and outer jib. My wife calls them the red sail and the white sail or sometimes the front sail and the back sail since she refuses to get into the sprit of the game.All contrary opinions are welcome.

 

[Dan McGuire]

Authoritive Source

I found the source for my previous posting. It was Sailbrite Sails. They identify the sails running from aft to forward as follows: Main, Yankee, Staysail and Spinnaker.The point of my original posting was that I do not like a sail bag to cover my hanked on outer jib. It would be easier to use a sail cover like my mainsail and my inner jib.

 

[Malcolm Young C36]

My 2 cents worth

I owned a Bayfield 32 for 7 years which I bought new. Bayfield Boats made cutters from 29 feet to 40 feet. They called the sail on the inner forestay the staysail. The sail on the outer forestay the yankee. My understanding was that to be called a yankee it had to be a high cut and fairly narrow sail. If it was cut like a genoa it wouldn't be called a yankee. In any event, a genoa on the outer forestay would be next to impossible to tack as it would have to fit through the relatively narrow slot between the inner and outer forestays. Incidentally, in order to go better in light winds I put a quick release leaver on the inner forestay which I pinned back to the shrounds and flew a 160% genoa on the outer forestay. When winds really piped up (above a double reef in the main) I replaced the inner stay, hanked on the staysail I roller furled the genoa. In this configuration the boat sailed well in very high winds. The only disadvantage to this rig was in normal winds the boat didn't look quite a pretty as the cutter rig with the staysail and the yankee.

 

[Dan McGuire]

That's Confusing Enough

I assume, possibly wrongly, that you are calling the foreward most stay the outer stay and the aft forestay the inner stay. In my case the outer jib is the forward most jib, because the sheets are to the outside and the outer jib is outside of the inner jib and conversely for the inner jib.My wife may have the best idea to call them the front one and back one or the red one and the white one. This is somewhat confusing though, because the red halyard goes to the white aft sail and the green halyard goes to the red forward sail.I was thinking that Royce referred to the Yankee as a gaff sail fairly high up on a sailing ship, although I can't find that anywhere. He refers to a stay sail as a trangular sail that is hanked only at the three corners.

 

[Malcolm Young]

Some more information on sail terminology

Dan,You are correct in assuming that my outer forestay is the furthest one forward. Regarding the Yankee, Staysail discussion. Another name for the Yankee is a jib topsail which may be easier to remember as it is on top.I did a little surfing and as well consulted Chapmans to see if I could find somewhere that provided definitions but was not successful. The following link does discuss use of the two sails and infers that the yankee is the 'front one'  Malcolm