Major stress.....Michigan, new 28 ft O'Day to us last year (1983 model) last year, had it surveyed by a Boat US guy.Bought the boat b/c he said it was a good boat, just needed to reseal the chainplates before we put in a season of sailing.We sailed it 6 weekends (Fr-Sun) and noticed a "bump" at the chainplates and various cracks on the deck showing up by July 4 weekend. Looked underneath where the shrouds attach inside the boat and the bolts did not seem to show any rotting, stress, etc. Made a claim with Boat US (of course they denied the claim) a new surveyor says delaminating issues which should have been caught by the previous surveyor .Boatyard claims they need to do extensive work, possibly up to $5,000 worth, to mount the shrouds to a bulkhead b/c O'Day boats did not do that back than. This means, tearing up the entire inside of the boat to do that job, not to mention that a now $15,000 boat becomes an easy $20,000 but would be lucky to get $10-12,000. Is our O'Day the only boat that the shrouds apparently are not mounted thru the deck properly? Suggestions? The little spider cracks seem to be able to fixed decently easy. The shroud area has a backing plate inside the boat, behind the bolts. Can't the area just be "shored up" with extra gelcoat to make the area more beefy, so to speak? Help.....I just want to cry, this has definitely dampened my spirit and has taught me to not trust surveyors.
Chainplate/Shroud Mounting on deck
- Thread starter vmaks
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I may not be remembering incorrectly, but I though the rigging on the 28 was similiar to Navtec rod rigging where from the deck, the chainplates were extended down and attached inside the boat behind the settee's where there was a stainless plate / attachment point...this was considered at the time to be a superior type of chainplate/attachment system as the rigging loads were carried thru the storage areas/ behind the settees (in the liner). As I
recall the O'Day 28 brochure which you should be able to find at O'day.com
under the heading brochures. .Please pardon me if I'm remembering this incorrectly..I think there was an occasional issue with what was oil-canning where the stress on the chainplates did distort the hull in places, but that was
because the rigging was overtightened. Maybe someone else remembers this better than I...the O'Day 302, perhaps has the same arrangement.
Pat
I just review my pics of the boat again and I am pretty sure the back shroud is mounted to a bulkhead or inside deck near the settee, as you thought. The "canning" is what is EXACTLTY happening and ONLY with the front shroud on the starboard side. Yes, I believe the captain I hired to sail the boat north with me (200 nm which was too intimidating for a sail on Lake Mich for my experience) did tighten the shrouds too much. He whined about how inadequate the marina was and took it upon himself to correct the problem(or in this case, possibly create a new problem). Knowing it is the "front shroud" (which I believe can be worked on without removing the main shroud/mast) what should we do to make the boat safe? Again, will "beefing up" or putting a larger backing plate help rectify that particular issue, not for just "a season" but for the life and resale of the boat down the road? Thank you so much for your quick response, we are working against the concept of snow and the boat may need to get inside for the winter(presently shrinkwrapped) for repair.
vmaks,
I saw in another thread someone offered a solution of running a rod down to another more secure location and they are much more experianced in repairs.
However, my question would be, if you know how this happened, the shroud was overtightened, and until then it was OK for all these years, then why not go ahead and reinforce the area. Then add a large SS backing plate. That looks/sounds like it would be better than the original mounting?
Bascially what you are asking. I'm curious also.
Hope that works out for you. Would be a much cheaper fix and one you could do yourself.
I saw in another thread someone offered a solution of running a rod down to another more secure location and they are much more experianced in repairs.
However, my question would be, if you know how this happened, the shroud was overtightened, and until then it was OK for all these years, then why not go ahead and reinforce the area. Then add a large SS backing plate. That looks/sounds like it would be better than the original mounting?
Bascially what you are asking. I'm curious also.
Hope that works out for you. Would be a much cheaper fix and one you could do yourself.
I don't understand the need for attaching the shroud to any new bulkhead. The original design is as described in:
http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/archive/index.php/t-79070.html
Seems to me that an effective solution would be replacing any rotten core surrounding the backing plate and replacing. It's not an uncommon problem on 28s but i'll defer to the more experienced fiberglass repairers here on the details.
The forward lowers aren't there to take a tremendous amount of force. The uppers, which are, were designed much better with the load carried via support rods to the pan.
http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/archive/index.php/t-79070.html
Seems to me that an effective solution would be replacing any rotten core surrounding the backing plate and replacing. It's not an uncommon problem on 28s but i'll defer to the more experienced fiberglass repairers here on the details.
The forward lowers aren't there to take a tremendous amount of force. The uppers, which are, were designed much better with the load carried via support rods to the pan.
vmaks,
I wouldn't panic just yet. The purpose of the forward lower on this rig is to prevent the mast from inverting, i.e. bending aft in the middle. We can go into a long discussion on this, but to address your immediate concern - it doesn't take a lot of rig tension in the forward lower to enable it to do its job. I have a feeling you have WAY TOO MUCH tension going. If that is the case you need to relax the tension first and then assess if any real damage has been done. My guess from here is that this is a lot less serious than you think it is.
I wouldn't panic just yet. The purpose of the forward lower on this rig is to prevent the mast from inverting, i.e. bending aft in the middle. We can go into a long discussion on this, but to address your immediate concern - it doesn't take a lot of rig tension in the forward lower to enable it to do its job. I have a feeling you have WAY TOO MUCH tension going. If that is the case you need to relax the tension first and then assess if any real damage has been done. My guess from here is that this is a lot less serious than you think it is.
Thanks for the connection. I looked and couldn't find a post so posted a new question. All of your comments have educated me so when I speak to the marina I can have an educated discussion with them on their suggested quote for the job. Thanks again....now off to deal with the marina.
A quick search on this site turned up an owner's manual for the Oday 28. http://sbo.sailboatowners.com/images/kb/pdf/1172.pdf
In the tuning section, they instruct to tighten the lowers hand tight only.
Cheers
Matt
In the tuning section, they instruct to tighten the lowers hand tight only.
Cheers
Matt
Boy, you got a lot of great responses from people who are willing to share
their expertise. We are very lucky boat owners to have access to this
type of information and discussion on this great website. Patrick
After reading many of your opinions, which I GREATLTY appreciate, I decided to go with attaching a rod to a bulkhead. To answer the question pertaining to why this problem suddenly came into fruition. The boat is new to me, only purchased it in late May of 2012. It so happens that someone with great sailing experience (captain licensed) decided my shrouds were not up to their expectations and decided to "tune" my shrouds the way they thought they should be tuned. Now that I am 1 season wiser, it was not a smart move to allow this. Regardless, I now have an issue that needs to be dealt with. Costly? Absolutely! At least we will feel confident of the shroud integrity once the job is complete. An expensive lesson, I guess. Thanks to all of you who sent me the sites with the O'Day manual. I actually have the original manual and looked through that prior to posting for addition opinions.
I'm sure glad this is the dead of winter so you can think this one over a bit more.
The design of the boat is fine. It's lasted this long. Yes, the deck might have gotten soft and your captain got carried away. but repair is needed not a redesign.
The location where the shrouds are attached is very critical. Moving the attachment point to a near by bulkhead is a major modification and needs to be thought through by someone that knows what they are doing.
Get opinions from a sail maker, a rigger (standing rigging) in addition to your marina guys. Go to another Marina with a great service department and talk to them.
Redesigning the geometry of the rigging is the LAST thing you want to do.
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