I found two descriptions of the rope-chain splice. One has three strands go through the last link of the chain, then splice back. In the other the rope is spliced down the chain, in and out of the links. It is at a UK site-Bluemoment. Any ideas on advantages or disadvantages?
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The first splice doubles the diameter of the rope for the length of the splice and may be problematic going through a windlass (such as a Maxwell Freedom 800 where the chain gypsy is entirely enclosed) and is equivalent to a back splice as a line termination technique. Because this splice puts a sharp bend in the strands where they go through the end of the chain, it most likely weakens the rope by 25 - 50 % (as do most knots)
The second splice (that continues the strands up the chain for several links) looks similar to a long splice for joining two lengths of line together. The primary advantage of this splice is that it doesn't significantly increase the diameter of either the rope or the chain, doesn't contain any sharp bends in the strands so the line is not significantly weakened (a long splice has 95% of the original strength of the rope). The only potential down side of this splice is that you need to continuously examine it to ensure that the splice remains in place and doesnnt slip backwards. Siezing the splice should minimize this potential. The second splice should go through a windlass easily (after all, an enclosed chain gypsy is entirely capable of hauling in hundreds of feet of rope before it gets to the chain, so why should a foot or so of combined rope / chain give it any problems?
Just my thoughts.
Steve
Alchemist C-380 (with a Maxwell Freedom 800 windlass)
The second splice (that continues the strands up the chain for several links) looks similar to a long splice for joining two lengths of line together. The primary advantage of this splice is that it doesn't significantly increase the diameter of either the rope or the chain, doesn't contain any sharp bends in the strands so the line is not significantly weakened (a long splice has 95% of the original strength of the rope). The only potential down side of this splice is that you need to continuously examine it to ensure that the splice remains in place and doesnnt slip backwards. Siezing the splice should minimize this potential. The second splice should go through a windlass easily (after all, an enclosed chain gypsy is entirely capable of hauling in hundreds of feet of rope before it gets to the chain, so why should a foot or so of combined rope / chain give it any problems?
Just my thoughts.
Steve
Alchemist C-380 (with a Maxwell Freedom 800 windlass)
You're on crack if you think that the backsplice doubles the diameter of the rope. To double the diameter you'd need to quadruple the number of strands—at most it increases it by about 40%. It also passes through most windlass gypsies just fine, provided the rope and chain are the proper size for the windlass chain/rope gypsy.
The other splice is only useful if you're using an octo-plait line for your anchor rode, like Brait.
Both rope-to-chain splices need to be inspected regularly.
The other splice is only useful if you're using an octo-plait line for your anchor rode, like Brait.
Both rope-to-chain splices need to be inspected regularly.
The warp to chain splice is far superior to the 'back splice' - w-c splice engages many links, whereas the backsplice engages only one link. The back-splice easily and readily wears/abrades on the only link in contact and actually violates 'good rope practice' - as one should never have a rope 'turning' around itself in less than 4 diameters of the rope.
When using the warp-to-chain splice I used to use at least 10+ links for contact - I use all chain now.
When using the warp-to-chain splice I used to use at least 10+ links for contact - I use all chain now.
I did the long splice to use on my Lewmar 1000, and it flows through nicely. I, too, was leary about the splice slipping back, so whipped the strands together at the up-chain end. In addition, I seized each of the three strands to each of the individual links. I didn't like the end-link backsplice as it is weaker and bends the strands.
This is rather funny since New England ropes recommends the back splice.
http://www.neropes.com/SPL_3StrandRopeToChain.aspx
http://www.neropes.com/SPL_3StrandRopeToChain.aspx
This wasn't necessary - You're on crack if you think that the backsplice doubles the diameter of the rope. - we all know you're the saltiest dog on the porch and we're not worthy to be in your presence. Why don't you sail off over the horizon and find another bunch of ignorant wannabes to educate? I'm sure they could benefit from your wisdom and skills. Don't waste them on us anymore.
LarryW, Someone lick the red off your candy? If anyone thinks that a back splice doubles the diameter of a rope they probably have never made one and are talking through their hat. Just as well to think them to be high as stupid.
Me thinks all that cold weather is making Ross mean. 
A coupe of years ago I posted a compaint that I was having trouble getting the anchor shackle to pass through the bow roller. Now I know what I will be working on this weekend.
Luv this site learn something new everyday even if it takes a few years.
A coupe of years ago I posted a compaint that I was having trouble getting the anchor shackle to pass through the bow roller. Now I know what I will be working on this weekend.
Luv this site learn something new everyday even if it takes a few years.
I don't have a windlass so a rode to chain splice is not needed here. I only have a 35 poung anchor and 30 feet of 3/8 chain so I just haul it in by hand. ( I need some exercize anyway). But I spliced a big thimble in the the rode and shackled to that.
Long Splice vs Back Splice
I was suspicious of the back splice as recommended by Lewmar for my windlass so I used a long splice.
Some time later I noticed that the gypsy had chewed the strands nearly through where the chain links had come to bear against the teeth on the gypsy.
Though they didn't say why I now understand why a back splice is recommended. I still feel uneasy about it but my long splice has been okay this last ten years under all conditions.
I was suspicious of the back splice as recommended by Lewmar for my windlass so I used a long splice.
Some time later I noticed that the gypsy had chewed the strands nearly through where the chain links had come to bear against the teeth on the gypsy.
Though they didn't say why I now understand why a back splice is recommended. I still feel uneasy about it but my long splice has been okay this last ten years under all conditions.
Donalex, it's nice to know the splice- any splice- on rode lasted 10 years. Like swapping halyards end-for-end, I think I'd redo any important spilce often enough so as to not worry about it's integrity.
Larry, I can see where you're coming from.
Sailingdog, and others, there's no need to nit-pick such minute items.
Everyone, we each have a different theory, so to criticize someone else's belief is not really in good form.
Everyone, just because Santa has come doesn't mean we can start being nasty again.
Larry, I can see where you're coming from.
Sailingdog, and others, there's no need to nit-pick such minute items.
Everyone, we each have a different theory, so to criticize someone else's belief is not really in good form.
Everyone, just because Santa has come doesn't mean we can start being nasty again.
i agree with Ross
the back splice with a thimble is a proven one and i prefer it to fraying or pinching it through several links of the chain
the back splice with a thimble is a proven one and i prefer it to fraying or pinching it through several links of the chain
are some people just guessing when they suggest answers?
The chain splice passes through a rope/chain gypsy more reliably, especially if the rode is muddy, sandy, or fouled with vegetation; the back splice is easier to do, and therefore generally preferred by those without a windlass (or without the knowledge of how to weave the more difficult chain splice.)
A back splice with a thimble would not work with most rope-chain gypsies. I've seen them done with nylon thimbles for small craft with lunch-hook type anchors, but I doubt any serious rigger would recommend one for a cruising yacht.
The chain splice passes through a rope/chain gypsy more reliably, especially if the rode is muddy, sandy, or fouled with vegetation; the back splice is easier to do, and therefore generally preferred by those without a windlass (or without the knowledge of how to weave the more difficult chain splice.)
A back splice with a thimble would not work with most rope-chain gypsies. I've seen them done with nylon thimbles for small craft with lunch-hook type anchors, but I doubt any serious rigger would recommend one for a cruising yacht.
Rope to chain splice
Line is pretty expensive and letting the line chafe on the chain is a concern because of the rough surface of the chain. With use the line will get very hard so if you needto resplice it from chafe you will have a severely difficulttime doing so. The opposite end of the rope would be a better choice to splice the second time. I'm just thinking there may be a better approach. Why not connect something to the last link that is smooth and less apt to chafe the line? Basically you need a polished chain link. Can someone invent one so we can all buy it? Thanks.
Line is pretty expensive and letting the line chafe on the chain is a concern because of the rough surface of the chain. With use the line will get very hard so if you needto resplice it from chafe you will have a severely difficulttime doing so. The opposite end of the rope would be a better choice to splice the second time. I'm just thinking there may be a better approach. Why not connect something to the last link that is smooth and less apt to chafe the line? Basically you need a polished chain link. Can someone invent one so we can all buy it? Thanks.
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