Line
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It actually depends a lot on where you’re going to anchor. Anchoring around SW FL the water is shallow, usually << 20 ft; the bottom mud or sand. Don’t need much chain or total rode. For a scope of 7:1 in 20 ft, 150 ft of any combination of rode is sufficient there, but you don’t need all chain. Thirty feet would be sufficient. However, since you’re contemplating travel in areas with reefs plus deeper waters, likely, you may wish all chain, or significant chain, for the weight and chaffing resistance. At 30 ft anchoring depth, 150 ft of chain would provide 5:1 scope with that alone. Back it with 200 ft of 9/16” nylon rode (rope/chain splice) and you should be set. However, your windlass would need to be one that can veer/recover both chain and rope. The splice is important. Get a professional to do it for you.
What happened with the F-Rib?
What happened with the F-Rib?
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I think I mentioned this in an earlier post but the 38 is prone to some serious sailing at anchor. Swings back and forth and sometimes goes in complete circles. Worst is when I can be an a line of 10 boats and They will all be going in the same direction and I’ll be 180 degrees opposite them. I’ve purchased an anchor riding sail and this helps significantly but does not totally eliminate the anchor sailing. I have 30 feet of chain with 180 feet of nylon rode.
A dock mate with an O’Day said he suffered similar experience until he went with an all chain rode. He said the anchor sailing stopped. So for that reason you may want to consider more ( mostly) chain.
You may need to consider a snubber arrangement with chain.
A dock mate with an O’Day said he suffered similar experience until he went with an all chain rode. He said the anchor sailing stopped. So for that reason you may want to consider more ( mostly) chain.
You may need to consider a snubber arrangement with chain.
"Line" is a word that can be tricky to use. A dockline is made of rope. An anchor rode can be made of chain or rope. The non-chain portion of the rode is not "mostly line," it is mostly rope.
Grammar is weird, but in general, line is used when describing the use, but rope, chain, and steel cable are used to describe the material.
If I were in Florida, with a 38' boat, and considering a windlass (do it!), I would positively use at least 200 feet of G4 chain, because of the risk of cutting on coral. I have used both all-chain and all-rope and well understand the pluses and minuses. And remember the snubber.
Grammar is weird, but in general, line is used when describing the use, but rope, chain, and steel cable are used to describe the material.
If I were in Florida, with a 38' boat, and considering a windlass (do it!), I would positively use at least 200 feet of G4 chain, because of the risk of cutting on coral. I have used both all-chain and all-rope and well understand the pluses and minuses. And remember the snubber.
What is the deepest anchorage you want to plan for?
My chain-rode combo will let me anchor in 175' of water. Which is not in my cruising plans.
The chain is needed to drag set your Rocna 20 on a sandy bottom
Knowing your maximum anchorage depth and a 10:1 scope for a blow, should give you the right amount of chain.
Jim...
My chain-rode combo will let me anchor in 175' of water. Which is not in my cruising plans.
The chain is needed to drag set your Rocna 20 on a sandy bottom
Knowing your maximum anchorage depth and a 10:1 scope for a blow, should give you the right amount of chain.
Jim...
There are a number of pros and cons to consider for this question. Some answers are simply based on what makes you feel the best, others are more pragmatic.
All chain rode means the ability to shorten scope in crowded anchorage (shorter swing radius), better riding characteristics (under certain conditions), a better sense of security (maybe). Rope is lighter and can offer more flexibility in depth. It is easier to handle and often considered easier on the boat (not in my opinion).
I would suggest you consider, also, the effects all chain weight will have on the sailing trim of your boat. Some boats actually sail better with the added weight forward, others, quite the opposite. All chain for crowded anchorage only, may mean you don't need much more than 150' at 3:1, but then carry another 200' of rope rode to attach for that deeper spot at 5:1 (up to 70').
Of course, these numbers are guidelines that reflect good conditions and typical bottom of sand and mud.
-Will (Dragonfly)
All chain rode means the ability to shorten scope in crowded anchorage (shorter swing radius), better riding characteristics (under certain conditions), a better sense of security (maybe). Rope is lighter and can offer more flexibility in depth. It is easier to handle and often considered easier on the boat (not in my opinion).
I would suggest you consider, also, the effects all chain weight will have on the sailing trim of your boat. Some boats actually sail better with the added weight forward, others, quite the opposite. All chain for crowded anchorage only, may mean you don't need much more than 150' at 3:1, but then carry another 200' of rope rode to attach for that deeper spot at 5:1 (up to 70').
Of course, these numbers are guidelines that reflect good conditions and typical bottom of sand and mud.
-Will (Dragonfly)
So this thread is sounding a bit like a thread on varnish vs. Cetol. 
Before investing a lot of money on an all chain rode, I'd suggest reading @thinwater's book on anchoring.
We have about 200' of chain backed by 100' of 8 plait nylon. One advantage to chain is the ability to use a little shorter scope in most conditions, i.e., instead of 7:1 use 5:1, which results in a smaller swing radius.
If you go with all chain, be sure to have a section of nylon at the bitter end. If for some reason it becomes necessary to abandon the anchor and chain, it is much faster to cut some nylon than undo shackles in the anchor locker. It also makes it possible to drop the ground tackle and buoy it for later retrieval (been there, done that).
Snubbers are important. They take the load and add some dampening. Using the windlass to secure the chain rode is bad for windlass health. A snubber and a chain stopper will extend the windlass's life.
Before investing a lot of money on an all chain rode, I'd suggest reading @thinwater's book on anchoring.
We have about 200' of chain backed by 100' of 8 plait nylon. One advantage to chain is the ability to use a little shorter scope in most conditions, i.e., instead of 7:1 use 5:1, which results in a smaller swing radius.
If you go with all chain, be sure to have a section of nylon at the bitter end. If for some reason it becomes necessary to abandon the anchor and chain, it is much faster to cut some nylon than undo shackles in the anchor locker. It also makes it possible to drop the ground tackle and buoy it for later retrieval (been there, done that).
Snubbers are important. They take the load and add some dampening. Using the windlass to secure the chain rode is bad for windlass health. A snubber and a chain stopper will extend the windlass's life.
They say a picture is worth a thousand words. The grapnel below was hooked into our chain half way between the anchor and the bow. We were only anchored for a few hours.
Now imagine being anchored on line, picking up that grapnel half way between the bow and the anchor, but you were expecting to stay a few days. Line or chain?
While we are imagining some things, how about a tiny bit farther afield? Watching someone bringing up their anchor from the helm, pushing a little button, with no one forward, and that grapnel, it's 8' long by the way, is coming up in the middle of his rode. Oh my, that's gonna hurt.
Anyway, 200 feet has pretty much worked out for me as a cruiser. That means I can anchor in around 65' of water and sleep comfortably on 3:1 scope. If you don't expect to need that much where you sail, then taylor it to your needs. Just be careful, the forums are full of tales of woe from those who bought the wrong chain because someone said they could use HT chain in a BBB gypsy or vice versa.
Now imagine being anchored on line, picking up that grapnel half way between the bow and the anchor, but you were expecting to stay a few days. Line or chain?
While we are imagining some things, how about a tiny bit farther afield? Watching someone bringing up their anchor from the helm, pushing a little button, with no one forward, and that grapnel, it's 8' long by the way, is coming up in the middle of his rode. Oh my, that's gonna hurt.
Anyway, 200 feet has pretty much worked out for me as a cruiser. That means I can anchor in around 65' of water and sleep comfortably on 3:1 scope. If you don't expect to need that much where you sail, then taylor it to your needs. Just be careful, the forums are full of tales of woe from those who bought the wrong chain because someone said they could use HT chain in a BBB gypsy or vice versa.
Just consider the trade-offs and decide for yourself. More chain is better but also heavier. If you plan for worse case conditions, say 10:1 and 50 ft max depth, you will be carrying a lot of weight every day for a scenario that may come along once every two years. This weight affects your everyday sailing, handling and slows you down. It is your boat, your choice. On my H31, I carry 60 ft of chain and 200+ ft of rope but I rarely anchor in strong winds.
Why would anyone need 10:1? 5:1 is plenty for line and 3:1 is all one needs with chain, unless one is planning on anchoring for a hurricane.
Thinwater. I doubt it if you had your boat in Tampa Bay. There is no coral reef anywhere near Tampa Bay—it’s mud or “sand” as I said above. A pass through the Keys, and he’ll likely have to take a mooring ball if anywhere inside a park. Hardly anyone I boated with in FL carried 200 ft of chain, or near it; just a pal in his Irwin 52.
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The boat is equipped well enough for anchoring in and around Tampa Bay.
Where would you expect to anchor in the Keys that you need 200' of all chain? A typical anchorage or even common anchor sites are not usually over 40' and most are much less. Of course, if you're deep sea fishing or wreck diving, that can get pretty deep. That's what extra rope rode is for.
Here's a list of cruising anchorages for the Keys and the typical minimum depths are between 5' to 10' Cruisers' Net | Cruisers Helping Cruisers
Don't beat yourself up over this or spend yourself out of your vacation time. You can be on "all chain" with only 50' of the stuff, most places in Florida. Of course, also the shallower you anchor, the less catenary effect you get from your chain, so you'll need more scope.
-Will (Dragonfly)
Yeah. I’m really starting to wonder the actual anchoring experience behind some of these comments (not your comments, of course).
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I doubt you need 200 to 250 feet of chain. That seems excessive, costly and heavy (keep in mind that on the 38 your water tank at 75 gallons is under the V berth and that’s about 620 pounds). But your current 85 feet total seems a little skimpy. Perhaps there is a compromise in there somewhere. You could go from 25 feet of chain to say 75 to 100 feet and then use rope for the remainder. As I said earlier I have 30 feet of chain coupled to 180 feet of rope. We typically anchor in 20 to 30 feet of water so even at the 7 to 1 ratio that’s 210 feet.
If you are 180 degrees in the opposite direction your line is wrapped around your keel. You need a kellet.
Have the Rocna 20KG on my Hunter 356 with 50' of chain and 150' of 3 strand and if had to do over would have more chain, possibly 75' to 100'. Anchor holds great and I normally try to put out all my chain in our anchorages.
That said going to 50' from 25' of chain made a big difference although I can still sail around at anchor but nowhere near as much as with a rope rode. Also if you use a bridle on the chain you will lessen the anchor sailing, I also put up a riding sail to try to minimize it even more but if you have a dinghy on deck remove it to lessen wind resistance.
Jeff
That said going to 50' from 25' of chain made a big difference although I can still sail around at anchor but nowhere near as much as with a rope rode. Also if you use a bridle on the chain you will lessen the anchor sailing, I also put up a riding sail to try to minimize it even more but if you have a dinghy on deck remove it to lessen wind resistance.
Jeff
Nope no wrap at all. Just crazy anchor sailing. Absolutely no fouling of the rode. If the winds are modest the boat behaves. When winds get up around 15 to 20 the swinging on anchor starts. The riding sail moderates it significantly. Lots of other threads on this topic and lots of tried solutions. They range from riding sail to dragging a stern anchor to dragging a 5 gallon bucket with holes drilled in it. Guessing my dock neighbors all chain rode has similar effect that your proposed kellet does.
What's the bottom like and your usual anchoring depths? Chain does not get damaged by rocks but is heavier. Line has some elasticity and absorbs shock where chain will transmit the full force to your cleat. For our Florida sandy Bottoms I would recommend a chain leader with line. The rule of thumb is one foot of chain per foot of boat. There is such a thing as too much chain (size, weight) which may hinder an anchor from setting. With chain you can usually use a lower scope in tight anchorages . Go to the archives as there is much info there.
This is why a snubber is used. A short ~25' nylon line between the attached to the anchor chain and a cleat.
Rethinking Anchor Snubbers - Practical Sailor
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