Centerboard plate machine screws

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J

Jimbo

I am purchasing an o'day 25 that has had the cb removed. (have parts). 2 of the 4 screws were sheared off in removal so the board has been left off.
I want it replaced and will have the boat lifted for a look at the undersides and to replace the cb.
Should I try to drill out and replace the machine screws or could I drill and tap alongside the existing sheered off screws (ie what is the structure the screws screw into?
Any ideas would be appreciated before I start. If remove the screws, whats the best method? drill and retap for larger screws or what?
 
S

Shoaldrafter

Jimbo, here is one approach

Jimbo,

I have a 26 which is essentially an updated version of the 25. I have had my centerboard out for painting.

In my opinion, the screws are into fiberglass. I would get the screws out by whatever means works. The plates have certain size holes so I would replace the screws with ones that properly work with existing holes. I used screws 1/2 inch longer when replacing my plates.

After screws are out, I would dry out where holes go into, that is bottom of keel. If after drying you can put screws back in that are tight, you are ready. If screws are loose and cannot be tightened then I would squirt epoxy into holes and temporarily seal holes so epoxy does not just drain out.

After epoxy has fully set, usually 72 hours, redrill holes to correct size for screws, and finish installation.

This has been discussed in prior posts to this forum and should be in the archives. As noted in previous discussions on the centerboard, the repair is usually done while centerboard is out and boat is elevated, such as on jack stands.

When done correctly, you should get years of sailing.

Ed K
26
 
J

Jimbo

screws

Thanks for the reply, I searched the site and could not find anything concerning the screws.
Are yours screws or bolts (I am from uk, different terminologies), threaded for a nut or like a wood screw?
 
J

Joe

Broken screws

Ed,
It appears that the machine Phillips head bolts are in fiberglass just by looking at it, but I'm willing to bet that there's a metal plate embedded under the fiberglass which is drilled and threaded for these bolts. When I took the bolts out of mine a few months ago, I had to use an impact screw driver on two stubborn bolts that wouldn't budge. It took me well over an hour to get these bolts out. I did a lot of banging on those bolts and when I finally got them out, I was able to screw them back in with no problem. I don't think that these plates are too deep into the fiberglass. Actually, Jimbo could take one of the other bolts and stick it in the hole and find out for sure just how deep the plate is in the fiberglass.

Jimbo,
If I was faced with this problem, I would take my Dremel Tool and dig out around the two screw holes to expose the plate. There may be enough of those two broken bolts sticking out to where you can get at it with a pliers or an easy out. Just make the holes big enough so that you can work on it. You can always fill them in later with epoxy. It's not going to be an easy job, and it's going to be a little time consuming, but I believe that you'll be able to accomplish it if you're persistent. The best way to get at it is to suspend the keel high enough to lay down and work under it in a comfortable position. I used my boat stands and 6X6"X 4' blocks to shore up under both ends of my hull near the keel. It's going to be a tedious job for you, but I think that it's do-able. Let us know how you make out.
Joe
 
S

Shoaldrafter

Jimbo, type of screws

Jimbo,

When I disassembled my boat for repair, as I took screws out of things, I put each set of screws for that item in a plastic lunch baggie and used a sharpie to label what the screws, bolts, etc. were for.

As I reassembled the boat, I often got new screws of the same type and equal number of screws in the next length and head size. I now have a fair number of stainless steel screws available for future repairs.

Ask Joe or Appleman of Mass. what type screws are used. I finished the rebuild two years ago and would at this point just be guessing. I see now that I should have kept a better notebook on each type of screw. I kept a notebook of many things like lengths but not everything got recorded. And some measurements that I wanted to keep got lost in the transfer to the notebooks.

I got my centerboard plate screws out while the boat was on tall stands awaiting transfer to trailer. I clean out the groves of screw prior to turning, using an awl and small knife. If initally I cannot turn, I am careful not to strip. I use the appropriate size screw driver and use a vise grip to turn while maintaining pressure on screw driver so as not to strip.

In retrospect, I do not believe that there is metal plate in my keel base. I needed the longer screws to get it tight. I recall being glad that I had longer screws available.

Ed K
26
 
J

Joe

Screws for plates

Jimbo
The four screws that I removed that hold the two stainless steel plates were threaded stainless steel Phillips head bolts about 1/4"X 1-3/4" approximately. The two wood screws that go through the wedges were missing on my keel. I had to reconstruct the two wedges with an epoxy kit. With all due respects to Ed, I still think that these bolts thread into a metal of some kind, because I did everything I could to try and get these bolts out including bang on them with an impact driver, to applying heat with a blow torch. Fiberglass alone, could never sustain that kind of punishment. I'm not exactly sure about the thread size of these bolts because I never replaced them. What I would do is get some common 1/4" bolts and try to thread them into one of the good holes. Then take it to your hardware store and find a nut that fits it. Then you'll be able to identify the thread size. Then go from there. I'm supplying some pics of what they look like so that you can have an idea of what to buy.
Joe
 
J

Joe

More screws and plates

I'm not sure if O'Day used the same plates, bolts, and screws on the OD 25 and 222, but here's some pics that someone else posted on this site last year I think.
Joe
 
J

Joe

Keel Photos

Here's another photo of the 222 keel with the plates off. If there isn't a metal plate that is threaded for the bolts that hold the two plates for the wedges and pin, it is quite possible that there are four stainless steel molly type threaded inserts for these bolts which are anchored into the lead somehow. I would definitely try to remove the two broken bolts, Jimbo.
Joe
 
J

Jimbo

Thanks

Wow, I am overwhelmed by the helful and speedy responses. Am I glad I joined this forum, I am sure as a new owner I will find lots more answers from the forums or from you guys.

Talking to the prev owner (who took it off and has given me a few photos) the bolts snapped a way up the bolt, probably at the start of the thread (apparently the screws used where not like those in the pics above, they where partially threaded bolts) so attempting joes solution (which I will say I thought was probably the right approach) may not reveal sufficient material to get a hold of using grips. Any one any views on drilling the whole existing metal out and using an epoxy filler (in the uk there was one called chemical metal)and tap that, or drill out and retap for a larger thread?(this probably will fail if they are inserts rather than a solid plate).
Your last pic joe is a great help. Now I can see exactly how it is constructed, I could always drill the hole out to a larger size,say 1/2 to get a better look.
 
S

Shoaldrafter

Jimbo, one vote here for kiss

I would first try to drill out existing screws. If successful, taping with original size might be possible. Or taping with next size up. I would not go all the way to 1/2 inch unless it was last resort. I would not do major surgery and cut out plate in keel, we do not know how it is in there. It may more involved and complex than we know. Try to use KISS. Keep it simple stupid.

If your bolts are so different, someone may have changed them already and put in wrong threads or cross threaded causing your problems.

Ed K
26
 
J

Joe

Keel Bolts

Jimbo,
I wouldn't drill them out to 1/2". If they are anchor inserts, they may not be much wider the 1/2". Why don't you give Rudy Nickerson a call on the phone tomorrow morning and explain this problem. I'm pretty sure that he can steer you in the right direction. His number is (508)644-3001. Unless you know for sure how these screw holes are put together, you'd be taking a big chance. I guarantee you that Rudy will know. When you find out, let us know.
Joe
 
A

appleman

Joe hit the nail on the head. Call Rudy

Going at this project like a bull in a china shop could cause a lot of unnecessary work and/or damage. You should have a good idea of how much bolt is sheared off by comparing them to the whole ones. There is some sort of treaded metal up there. I thought for a while it might be that the bolts are threaded directly into the lead, but decided that the lead is so soft, it wouldn't last. I think Joe is right, there has to be a stainless threaded insert, or possibly inserts molded right into the lead. I take the bolts out at the end of every season, because the first time I took them out after buying the boat, a few drops of water came out. I feel the 10 minutes it takes to take them out each year might stop a small void/damage/imperfection from becoming major damage from the freeze/thaw cycles during the winter.
 
J

Joe

Appleman's boat

Appleman,
I agree with Ed K. That boat does look great.
Does your trailer have keel rollers?
Joe
 
A

appleman

Thanks Guys. New Bottom paint always makes a boat look great

but you know haw long that clean look lasts.

No, Joe no keel rollers, just a wooden block covered in carpet. Here is a picture of the trailer still under the boat after it was jacked up, and before painting.
 
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