Okay!I know port from starboard and bow from stern but does a swing keel kick up like my sailboard daggerboard when it hits the bottom? And does a centerboard stay straight down when it hits something (unless you pull it out? I'm still trying to figure out if I should buy a centerboard model or a swing keel? PLEASE HELP? I don't want to make this BIG mistake.
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Yes, pretty much
The swing will swing. The daggerboard will bump... harder. But it's also a rigid foil underwater that you can leverage for probably a little more speed than the swing keel, though I'm sure the difference between sailor's skill is typically far greater than the difference between 26D and 26S speed
I'm happy with my D, but I did get a fishfinder to help me know with greater certainty how much water's under my boat!
The swing will swing. The daggerboard will bump... harder. But it's also a rigid foil underwater that you can leverage for probably a little more speed than the swing keel, though I'm sure the difference between sailor's skill is typically far greater than the difference between 26D and 26S speed
I'm happy with my D, but I did get a fishfinder to help me know with greater certainty how much water's under my boat!Just one correction...
A daggerboard is a board that goes staright down through a slot in the hull of the boat. A centerboard and a swing keel are essentially the same thing. They both rotate into position. The D and M models have a daggerboard. The S and X models have a swing keel/ centerboard.
A daggerboard is a board that goes staright down through a slot in the hull of the boat. A centerboard and a swing keel are essentially the same thing. They both rotate into position. The D and M models have a daggerboard. The S and X models have a swing keel/ centerboard.
Another Correction
While both a swing keel and a centerboard both rotate into position, they are not essentially the same thing. A swing keel has the entire keel, or most of it, rotate into position. That involves a lot of weight, and the boat will typically not sail at all if it's not into position. A centerboard has a small keel or trunk, that holds most of the weight, with a lighter centerboard that swings down to extend the keel. A centerboard keel will sail with the centerboard up, but with poorer performance. My O'Day 25 has a centerboard, and to answer the original question, when I hit bottom with it, the centerboard simply rotates up. This is still not a good thing to do, since there is the possibility of damage if there is any sideways movement when it hits.
While both a swing keel and a centerboard both rotate into position, they are not essentially the same thing. A swing keel has the entire keel, or most of it, rotate into position. That involves a lot of weight, and the boat will typically not sail at all if it's not into position. A centerboard has a small keel or trunk, that holds most of the weight, with a lighter centerboard that swings down to extend the keel. A centerboard keel will sail with the centerboard up, but with poorer performance. My O'Day 25 has a centerboard, and to answer the original question, when I hit bottom with it, the centerboard simply rotates up. This is still not a good thing to do, since there is the possibility of damage if there is any sideways movement when it hits.
SWING vs BUMP...
Ive seen 'smashed' dagger boards...and not a pretty sight. And thats why I prefer a 'swing' keel. My former boat, a Mac 26S, and present boat, a Mac 26X have swing keels. I've struck shallows several times, and although I have a depth finder, shallows occur fast on occasions and I was glad that I had the swing keel. It isnt damaged when striking underwater objects, shallows, etc. But, Ive never met an unhappy MAC owner yet...no matter if its a Daggerboard or Swingkeel. I simply prefer the swing keel, and less worry in the shallow bay areas that I sail.
Ive seen 'smashed' dagger boards...and not a pretty sight. And thats why I prefer a 'swing' keel. My former boat, a Mac 26S, and present boat, a Mac 26X have swing keels. I've struck shallows several times, and although I have a depth finder, shallows occur fast on occasions and I was glad that I had the swing keel. It isnt damaged when striking underwater objects, shallows, etc. But, Ive never met an unhappy MAC owner yet...no matter if its a Daggerboard or Swingkeel. I simply prefer the swing keel, and less worry in the shallow bay areas that I sail.
water hazards
In the Pacific, the Gulf, the Atlantic and inland lakes, I have hit numerous underwater objects with swing keels and sustained no damage at all while sailing, sometimes at hull speed. There is an almost endless list of possilbe things just under the surface in deep water that can surprise you, so I recommend the swing keel model on all but extended cruise blue water voyaging boats. IMHO, Since the Macs are ostensibly designed for minimal cost, family fun, not racing or long distance cruising, I think the only logical reason for Roger Macgregor to have ever designed and produced a daggerboard model was for marketing reasons....increased attention... just to have something new that makes news. The difference in interior space or sailing performance sure isn't enough to justify a radical design change when it still has water ballast. Especially if you take into account the disappointment most of us felt when we bought the factory performance hype and then actually sailed or motored our new boats ourselves, falling far short of anything the factory claims with a real crew and gear on board. But, there is no law saying manufacturers have to give real world numbers in their puffery and gross exaggerations. Yet.
In the Pacific, the Gulf, the Atlantic and inland lakes, I have hit numerous underwater objects with swing keels and sustained no damage at all while sailing, sometimes at hull speed. There is an almost endless list of possilbe things just under the surface in deep water that can surprise you, so I recommend the swing keel model on all but extended cruise blue water voyaging boats. IMHO, Since the Macs are ostensibly designed for minimal cost, family fun, not racing or long distance cruising, I think the only logical reason for Roger Macgregor to have ever designed and produced a daggerboard model was for marketing reasons....increased attention... just to have something new that makes news. The difference in interior space or sailing performance sure isn't enough to justify a radical design change when it still has water ballast. Especially if you take into account the disappointment most of us felt when we bought the factory performance hype and then actually sailed or motored our new boats ourselves, falling far short of anything the factory claims with a real crew and gear on board. But, there is no law saying manufacturers have to give real world numbers in their puffery and gross exaggerations. Yet.
Night Sailor..."well said"
We were docking New Years day with a strong wind at our marina. Its always easier having some or all of the swing keel down for docking and better control. The tide was out, and depth at the dock was a range of 2 to 4 ft. It wouldve been a mess trying to dock, handle a dagger board depth, and wind. But with the swing keel, these issues are made easier. Happy Sailing....
We were docking New Years day with a strong wind at our marina. Its always easier having some or all of the swing keel down for docking and better control. The tide was out, and depth at the dock was a range of 2 to 4 ft. It wouldve been a mess trying to dock, handle a dagger board depth, and wind. But with the swing keel, these issues are made easier. Happy Sailing....
Dboard Control
On my 26D, I have a single line led aft to the cockpit that allows easy, immediate and infinite adjustment of the daggerboard depth. I have a fish finder, too, to follow bottom contour and reduce dboard depth if necessary. I never read any factory hype as I purchased my boat used. My boat just outpoints any swing keel of similar length. I have found that the boat 26D handles well with an outboard pusher with the dboard all the way up, but then I have a IdaSailor daggerboard and rudder. I'd recommend retracting the dboard in any shallow water situations (prior to docking). My GPS tells me that the boat motors about 1 MPH faster with the dboard all the way up, all other conditions remaining the same. For a new sailor, I recommend the swing keel for mistakes made sailing. For those who have more experience and care about speed, efficiency and upwind performance, the daggerboard design shows great potential. Roger M even designed a boat half way to the fixed D model: the S model. But apparently he was still unable to make everyone happy.... John S Boise
On my 26D, I have a single line led aft to the cockpit that allows easy, immediate and infinite adjustment of the daggerboard depth. I have a fish finder, too, to follow bottom contour and reduce dboard depth if necessary. I never read any factory hype as I purchased my boat used. My boat just outpoints any swing keel of similar length. I have found that the boat 26D handles well with an outboard pusher with the dboard all the way up, but then I have a IdaSailor daggerboard and rudder. I'd recommend retracting the dboard in any shallow water situations (prior to docking). My GPS tells me that the boat motors about 1 MPH faster with the dboard all the way up, all other conditions remaining the same. For a new sailor, I recommend the swing keel for mistakes made sailing. For those who have more experience and care about speed, efficiency and upwind performance, the daggerboard design shows great potential. Roger M even designed a boat half way to the fixed D model: the S model. But apparently he was still unable to make everyone happy.... John S Boise
2 Feet of Water
OK Louis, I have to give you a hard time. You are docking in 2 feet of water and none of your crew (or you) were willing to step over the side and guide the boat? Sounds like a bunch of cats who don't want to get their paws wet. Ha John S Boise where standing in the water hurts and your lower extremities are in danger of frostbite or worse
OK Louis, I have to give you a hard time. You are docking in 2 feet of water and none of your crew (or you) were willing to step over the side and guide the boat? Sounds like a bunch of cats who don't want to get their paws wet. Ha John S Boise where standing in the water hurts and your lower extremities are in danger of frostbite or worse
JohnS...here's the deal...HA.
JohnS...thanks for the hard time...but here's the deal on the Holub Boat. No one seems to volunteer jumping over the side in 2' of water to lead the boat in. I'm sure you know the RULE that the Captain never leaves the boat...HA...My former boat, a Mac 26S, seemed easier to dock. But I watched a 28' tri-hull boat and crew coming in after I docked. They were having docking problems too, and one of the guys fell overboard at dockside. The strange thing is, he walked grumbling to the ramp via water about 80 ft. distance without towing the tri-hull...now thats the kinda crew folks get these days...HA... Happy Sailing to you and yours !
JohnS...thanks for the hard time...but here's the deal on the Holub Boat. No one seems to volunteer jumping over the side in 2' of water to lead the boat in. I'm sure you know the RULE that the Captain never leaves the boat...HA...My former boat, a Mac 26S, seemed easier to dock. But I watched a 28' tri-hull boat and crew coming in after I docked. They were having docking problems too, and one of the guys fell overboard at dockside. The strange thing is, he walked grumbling to the ramp via water about 80 ft. distance without towing the tri-hull...now thats the kinda crew folks get these days...HA... Happy Sailing to you and yours !
Daggerboard vs Swing Centreboard
When we set out to move up to a MacGregor classic from our Ensenada 20, (after 3 years of research convinced us that it was the right boat for our type of sailing), we targeted the "S" model. Everything else being absolutely equal, I would have then and would still now, chose a centreboard model over the daggerboard. But often, the daggerboard model, being a few years older and with the potential damage "stigma", is considerably cheaper (everything else being equal). In reality, the daggerboard model is a better sailer, again everything else being equal. Roger MacGregor didn't make a "faux pas" with the daggerboard design from a technical or performance perspective. The reason for the quick switch to the swing centreboard was due to the market perception (real or otherwise) that the daggerboard was an unnecessary liability due to increased risk of damage. The reality is, you are a damn fool if you are not always very, very, careful to ensure you have sufficient water under your keel. Even a swing centreboard can get a healthy chunk taken out of it, if it strikes something solid at good speed. Even more important than that, is that you can lose control of the boat if the centreboard is forced up while you are relying on it to prevent leeway. And as previously mentioned, the swing centreboard is more prone to damage in a grounding with a lateral movement component. For these reasons, if I were to do it again, with everything else being equal between a daggerboard and centreboard model I was considering to purchase, if the daggerboard model was $350 or more dollars less expensinve, I'd buy that. Either way, purchasing one over the other can not possbily constitute a "BIG" mistake.
When we set out to move up to a MacGregor classic from our Ensenada 20, (after 3 years of research convinced us that it was the right boat for our type of sailing), we targeted the "S" model. Everything else being absolutely equal, I would have then and would still now, chose a centreboard model over the daggerboard. But often, the daggerboard model, being a few years older and with the potential damage "stigma", is considerably cheaper (everything else being equal). In reality, the daggerboard model is a better sailer, again everything else being equal. Roger MacGregor didn't make a "faux pas" with the daggerboard design from a technical or performance perspective. The reason for the quick switch to the swing centreboard was due to the market perception (real or otherwise) that the daggerboard was an unnecessary liability due to increased risk of damage. The reality is, you are a damn fool if you are not always very, very, careful to ensure you have sufficient water under your keel. Even a swing centreboard can get a healthy chunk taken out of it, if it strikes something solid at good speed. Even more important than that, is that you can lose control of the boat if the centreboard is forced up while you are relying on it to prevent leeway. And as previously mentioned, the swing centreboard is more prone to damage in a grounding with a lateral movement component. For these reasons, if I were to do it again, with everything else being equal between a daggerboard and centreboard model I was considering to purchase, if the daggerboard model was $350 or more dollars less expensinve, I'd buy that. Either way, purchasing one over the other can not possbily constitute a "BIG" mistake.
Dagger advantage
The only unarguable advantage of the dagger over the centerboard is the ease of replacing that vertical appendage if it does break. To replace a centerboard you have to raise the boat, unbolt the holding flanges and/or pivot pin, and lower it carefully out the bottom. To replace a dagger board you pretty much lift the old board out and drop a new one in and you’re done. Also, if you ever break your dagger, you can drop a board or paddle down the dagger slot as an emergency backup. Otherwise, both are wonderful! Happy sails *_/), MArk
The only unarguable advantage of the dagger over the centerboard is the ease of replacing that vertical appendage if it does break. To replace a centerboard you have to raise the boat, unbolt the holding flanges and/or pivot pin, and lower it carefully out the bottom. To replace a dagger board you pretty much lift the old board out and drop a new one in and you’re done. Also, if you ever break your dagger, you can drop a board or paddle down the dagger slot as an emergency backup. Otherwise, both are wonderful! Happy sails *_/), MArk
Crew Rights
Louis, I like the saying that," the boat may belong to the captain, but the lifeboats belong to the crew". John S Boise
Louis, I like the saying that," the boat may belong to the captain, but the lifeboats belong to the crew". John S Boise
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