As stated in my last article I am in search of the "right" boat for us. I appreciate the room that a CC boat gives you below decks; however, I am concerned to how Hunter Center Cockpit boats sail. Are their any owners out their with a CC that are thoroughly impressed or just the opposite? Thanks for any comments/suggestions.
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My understanding is...
that they sail very well. There are many owners out there that have the Passage 450 and are very pleased with the way they sail. I'm sure you will hear from some of them. MPJ
that they sail very well. There are many owners out there that have the Passage 450 and are very pleased with the way they sail. I'm sure you will hear from some of them. MPJ
Lots of people don't like Condos passing them!
Two things, the Passage 450 and 420 have the exact same hulls as the 460 and 410. So you might want to direct your question to a larger audience. I really get a kick out of passing boats in my Condo(450)! Also look up "passagemaking.com" he had VERY respectable finishes in his 450(Newport to Bermuda and Beyond). Also look and see what the 450 or 420 will rate PHRF wise, you will be suprised.
Two things, the Passage 450 and 420 have the exact same hulls as the 460 and 410. So you might want to direct your question to a larger audience. I really get a kick out of passing boats in my Condo(450)! Also look up "passagemaking.com" he had VERY respectable finishes in his 450(Newport to Bermuda and Beyond). Also look and see what the 450 or 420 will rate PHRF wise, you will be suprised.
And those PHRFs are ..?
Bob, I have not seen a PHRF rating for either the 420 or the 450. If you know of any, please post them, or point us to the lists where they appear.
Bob, I have not seen a PHRF rating for either the 420 or the 450. If you know of any, please post them, or point us to the lists where they appear.
not the same
Same hulls, yes, but very different boats. A center cockpit boat has a much higher center of gravity, and will therefor be more tender (tippy)than the aft-cockpit version of the same hull. Comparison of a 410 and 420 also reveals a completely different rig. With its fraction rig, lighter weight and aft cockpit, the 410 will outperform the 420. But you'll have to crawl into bed on your knees. Something for everybody. In an center-cockpit version you'll have full-headroom aft cabin with a centerline, walk-around berth. For better or worse, you'll also have an engine room, which will usually result in less noise when motoring. In an aft-cockpit version, you'll have a nicer cockpit, a larger galley, easier engine access and higher overall performance. Your pick.
Same hulls, yes, but very different boats. A center cockpit boat has a much higher center of gravity, and will therefor be more tender (tippy)than the aft-cockpit version of the same hull. Comparison of a 410 and 420 also reveals a completely different rig. With its fraction rig, lighter weight and aft cockpit, the 410 will outperform the 420. But you'll have to crawl into bed on your knees. Something for everybody. In an center-cockpit version you'll have full-headroom aft cabin with a centerline, walk-around berth. For better or worse, you'll also have an engine room, which will usually result in less noise when motoring. In an aft-cockpit version, you'll have a nicer cockpit, a larger galley, easier engine access and higher overall performance. Your pick.
John, I know the rigs are not the same!
My intendtion was to get more input for a discussion and I guess I was successful. On your statement of tenderness, not many of us sail in the winds of S.F., without dodgers and Biminis though, there might be only a foot higher profile in the cockpit area of a CC veres a aft 410. The rigs on a 460 and 450 are the same, have you sailed both these? Is there a tenerness difference? Would like to hear! As for the PHRF ratings, the Hunter Passage 42 has a PHRF of 90-93 in Socal. The old Lengend 45 has a PHRF of 72. I am looking into what a 450 is but I really believe it will be in the 80's. I would also think that the 420 would be between 90 and 108. I just know there might be someone out there who has gotten their boat PHRF'd.
My intendtion was to get more input for a discussion and I guess I was successful. On your statement of tenderness, not many of us sail in the winds of S.F., without dodgers and Biminis though, there might be only a foot higher profile in the cockpit area of a CC veres a aft 410. The rigs on a 460 and 450 are the same, have you sailed both these? Is there a tenerness difference? Would like to hear! As for the PHRF ratings, the Hunter Passage 42 has a PHRF of 90-93 in Socal. The old Lengend 45 has a PHRF of 72. I am looking into what a 450 is but I really believe it will be in the 80's. I would also think that the 420 would be between 90 and 108. I just know there might be someone out there who has gotten their boat PHRF'd.
sailing
Scott I have sailed our 420 in many different conditions and while the boat is more tender than any other I have sailed for a given amount of sail aloft I have found that you just don't need as much sail as you think to go fast. Many times have had two reefs and half jib in 25 knots of wind and been going 7 to 7.5 kts on the meter (while towing the dink, too) with a pretty flat boat and happy crew. This boat really does seem faster at 15-18 degrees than at 20 to22. I think it sails just fine once you learn to reef early and often. The real problem with this high sided boat is getting in and out of a slip in any kind of crosswind--it is a complete pig with the standard 2 blade prop. Just forget backing it in. Get the three blade and it will be just manageable. Needless to say the aft cabin is a big plus--now the first mate actually asks to go sailing so I think its worth anything. Best of luck Greg Beckner S/V Champagne Girl
Scott I have sailed our 420 in many different conditions and while the boat is more tender than any other I have sailed for a given amount of sail aloft I have found that you just don't need as much sail as you think to go fast. Many times have had two reefs and half jib in 25 knots of wind and been going 7 to 7.5 kts on the meter (while towing the dink, too) with a pretty flat boat and happy crew. This boat really does seem faster at 15-18 degrees than at 20 to22. I think it sails just fine once you learn to reef early and often. The real problem with this high sided boat is getting in and out of a slip in any kind of crosswind--it is a complete pig with the standard 2 blade prop. Just forget backing it in. Get the three blade and it will be just manageable. Needless to say the aft cabin is a big plus--now the first mate actually asks to go sailing so I think its worth anything. Best of luck Greg Beckner S/V Champagne Girl
Bob Bitchin answers
If any of you read Lattitudes and Attitudes you know Bob Bitchin. He responded to a post on his website. He praises the CC and gives terrible reviews on the in mast roller furlings. I agree that they must be extremely easier to use; however, I wouldn't want one to jam open in a gale. Thanks for everyone's input.
If any of you read Lattitudes and Attitudes you know Bob Bitchin. He responded to a post on his website. He praises the CC and gives terrible reviews on the in mast roller furlings. I agree that they must be extremely easier to use; however, I wouldn't want one to jam open in a gale. Thanks for everyone's input.
next boat
ive concidered all the options, aft or center, i dont know which make i will have but my next boat will be a c.c
ive concidered all the options, aft or center, i dont know which make i will have but my next boat will be a c.c
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