I get spotty cell phone coverage when on my boat and was wondering if adding a cell phone antenna up the mast would help. Some of the online ad's I see indicate a 15db increase in signal strength (I have no clue what that means). Does anyone have any experience with these antennas?? Thanks...... ken in sacramento
- Status
Got a link ?
I would like to see the ad you are talking about. What kind of service do you have? Which provider? Do you want voice or data service? There are cell phone repeaters which I have seen which are available for your boat. See the link. There are many more suppliers. Do a search for cell phone repeaters or amplifiers and you will get a lot of them online. Generally speaking the main issue will be the antenna and how high it is. The cell phone frequencies are line of sight (UHF). A cheaper solution which I have thought about but not tried would be to put the phone itself as high as possible and use bluetooth headset for a wireless link to the deck. You could test that using a halyard to raise it and see how it works. You could also go digital that way if you have a laptop or PDA which is wireless linked to your phone. I would like to hear what you find out and what you ultimately get and how it works out for you.
I would like to see the ad you are talking about. What kind of service do you have? Which provider? Do you want voice or data service? There are cell phone repeaters which I have seen which are available for your boat. See the link. There are many more suppliers. Do a search for cell phone repeaters or amplifiers and you will get a lot of them online. Generally speaking the main issue will be the antenna and how high it is. The cell phone frequencies are line of sight (UHF). A cheaper solution which I have thought about but not tried would be to put the phone itself as high as possible and use bluetooth headset for a wireless link to the deck. You could test that using a halyard to raise it and see how it works. You could also go digital that way if you have a laptop or PDA which is wireless linked to your phone. I would like to hear what you find out and what you ultimately get and how it works out for you.
Get an antenna
The answer is to get a outside boat antenna (we have one on the radar pole so it is only 10 to 12' high) and a booster kit. It will work almost every where. We are on the east coast and travel the ICW all the time. There are locations where a we can only make calls or data transmissions with the booster kit / antenna. We currently are in the Bahamas, and we appear to be the only ones from the Exumas, Eleuthera, to Marsh Harbor that can make cell phone calls. But only with the booster kit/antenna. Now here in the Bahamas it is an analog type call (no data). You need to know the type of phone you have to get the connection piece from the phone to the booster kit. You can view the products on; www.boatantenna.com Good Luck - Gordon on Utopia III
The answer is to get a outside boat antenna (we have one on the radar pole so it is only 10 to 12' high) and a booster kit. It will work almost every where. We are on the east coast and travel the ICW all the time. There are locations where a we can only make calls or data transmissions with the booster kit / antenna. We currently are in the Bahamas, and we appear to be the only ones from the Exumas, Eleuthera, to Marsh Harbor that can make cell phone calls. But only with the booster kit/antenna. Now here in the Bahamas it is an analog type call (no data). You need to know the type of phone you have to get the connection piece from the phone to the booster kit. You can view the products on; www.boatantenna.com Good Luck - Gordon on Utopia III
antenna gain
Ken Antenna gain is a myth. No antenna amplifies a signal. It simply radiates it from whatever point in the sky it sits - the higher, the better but that too has some limitations. What they advertize is apparent radiation pattern of various wavelength antennas compared with a reference antenna and refer to their product as "gain" over that reference, however, you need to understand what the reference is as they are different. A 15 dB gain antenna seems to border on false advertizing unless they are using a very poor antenna as the reference with which they are comparing their product to achieve that "gain". Putting an antenna high on the mast will usually have a big benefit in terms of line-of-sight communications but the problem there is the inherent signal loss with a longer run of coax to that antenna. If you use quality connectors, solder them properly to the coax and us a good quality of coax with low loss at UHF, you will see significant improvement. The problem is how to properly connect the antenna coax to a cell phone which isn't easy. Probably your best bet is to buy and install a fixed mount car phone which are 3 watts output vs. the ubiquitous pocket version. Don
Ken Antenna gain is a myth. No antenna amplifies a signal. It simply radiates it from whatever point in the sky it sits - the higher, the better but that too has some limitations. What they advertize is apparent radiation pattern of various wavelength antennas compared with a reference antenna and refer to their product as "gain" over that reference, however, you need to understand what the reference is as they are different. A 15 dB gain antenna seems to border on false advertizing unless they are using a very poor antenna as the reference with which they are comparing their product to achieve that "gain". Putting an antenna high on the mast will usually have a big benefit in terms of line-of-sight communications but the problem there is the inherent signal loss with a longer run of coax to that antenna. If you use quality connectors, solder them properly to the coax and us a good quality of coax with low loss at UHF, you will see significant improvement. The problem is how to properly connect the antenna coax to a cell phone which isn't easy. Probably your best bet is to buy and install a fixed mount car phone which are 3 watts output vs. the ubiquitous pocket version. Don
Cell Phone Booster
I used to have an old Motorola Startac 6000 which unfortunately is now in 33 feet of water off Tribune Bay on Hornby Island British Columbia Canada. I could plug an aftermarket aerial into the bottom of the phone and it gave greatly increased coverage. I have not been able to find such a simple plugin type of aerial for my replacement LG cell phone. I like the sound of Gordon's arrangement.
I used to have an old Motorola Startac 6000 which unfortunately is now in 33 feet of water off Tribune Bay on Hornby Island British Columbia Canada. I could plug an aftermarket aerial into the bottom of the phone and it gave greatly increased coverage. I have not been able to find such a simple plugin type of aerial for my replacement LG cell phone. I like the sound of Gordon's arrangement.
Don,
You said "Antenna gain is a myth. No antenna amplifies a signal. " That is misleading. The fact is that one antenna can be much more effective than another which you did say later on in your post. It is like a lense which does not actually amplify the available sunshine but when focused, it will start a fire. I do agree that the specifications are often misleading but they are a useful guide if you read them carefully. As to feedline loss in the coax, that is not an issue if you get one of the repeaters. They are wireless and should be mounted at or very near the antenna which eliminates the line loss. You will need to provide power to the repeater but that is not too difficult.
You said "Antenna gain is a myth. No antenna amplifies a signal. " That is misleading. The fact is that one antenna can be much more effective than another which you did say later on in your post. It is like a lense which does not actually amplify the available sunshine but when focused, it will start a fire. I do agree that the specifications are often misleading but they are a useful guide if you read them carefully. As to feedline loss in the coax, that is not an issue if you get one of the repeaters. They are wireless and should be mounted at or very near the antenna which eliminates the line loss. You will need to provide power to the repeater but that is not too difficult.
Absolutely correct Patrick
Your analogy is correct Patrick - I was responding to the original message regarding a 15 dB gain antenna claim which is silly. About the only thing an antenna can do is control the radiation pattern. You might want to check out the current Blue Water Sailing mag - good article on cell phone repeaters and, although it too sounds like marketing, does show that someone's experience with some of the cheap ones (repeaters) are worse than nothing.
Your analogy is correct Patrick - I was responding to the original message regarding a 15 dB gain antenna claim which is silly. About the only thing an antenna can do is control the radiation pattern. You might want to check out the current Blue Water Sailing mag - good article on cell phone repeaters and, although it too sounds like marketing, does show that someone's experience with some of the cheap ones (repeaters) are worse than nothing.
Don, the 15db refrences the standard
dbi gain. Most cell phone antennas are 4' 9db antennas. The omni antennas works as a lense as stated below, the focus the power that is normally sent up and down into a pancake beam. See pattern of an example omni: http://www.hyperlinktech.com/web/copyrighted_images/pattern_hg5812u_pro.gif This has the advantage of greater range, however, if a sailboat is heeled, it will shoot the signal into the water or into the sky if you have too tight of an antenna, so we look to only put a 9dbi or less antenna on sailboats. Now, most cell phones have a -80dbm RX and +35dbm, and a 1.2db "unity gain" antenna. So, we have an effective isotropic radiated power (EIRP) of 36db. Much of that power shoots into the ground and skyward. If we add a 9dbi antenna with 50' of RG8 coax, we have a net antenna of 7.5dbi (with coax loss). We also move our signal up in the air for better line of sight, as 800-900mhz signals work best with line of sight. That it also gives us a EIRP of 42.5 db. Note that with each every 3db, we are gaining 2x the effective radiated power. This enables us to have more free space signal loss, which means that we can make the connection over greater distances if we have the line of site. It doesn’t help to have the line of site if you cant get your signal there. So basicly a good antenna is going to have the same effect as a 42dbm transmiter on an unity antenna, but the amp isnt going to help as much on the RX side as an amp has internal noise that hampers the RX on the phone. Thats why most amps are low (35-38dbm) power with a good antenna.
dbi gain. Most cell phone antennas are 4' 9db antennas. The omni antennas works as a lense as stated below, the focus the power that is normally sent up and down into a pancake beam. See pattern of an example omni: http://www.hyperlinktech.com/web/copyrighted_images/pattern_hg5812u_pro.gif This has the advantage of greater range, however, if a sailboat is heeled, it will shoot the signal into the water or into the sky if you have too tight of an antenna, so we look to only put a 9dbi or less antenna on sailboats. Now, most cell phones have a -80dbm RX and +35dbm, and a 1.2db "unity gain" antenna. So, we have an effective isotropic radiated power (EIRP) of 36db. Much of that power shoots into the ground and skyward. If we add a 9dbi antenna with 50' of RG8 coax, we have a net antenna of 7.5dbi (with coax loss). We also move our signal up in the air for better line of sight, as 800-900mhz signals work best with line of sight. That it also gives us a EIRP of 42.5 db. Note that with each every 3db, we are gaining 2x the effective radiated power. This enables us to have more free space signal loss, which means that we can make the connection over greater distances if we have the line of site. It doesn’t help to have the line of site if you cant get your signal there. So basicly a good antenna is going to have the same effect as a 42dbm transmiter on an unity antenna, but the amp isnt going to help as much on the RX side as an amp has internal noise that hampers the RX on the phone. Thats why most amps are low (35-38dbm) power with a good antenna.
Cell Amplifier
Here is another brand of amplifier. Looks like this one needs to have your phone plugged into it rather than a wireless connection like the Digital Antenna unit. This may be better on a small boat as the D/A inside and outside antennas must be separated by a minimum of 20'.
Here is another brand of amplifier. Looks like this one needs to have your phone plugged into it rather than a wireless connection like the Digital Antenna unit. This may be better on a small boat as the D/A inside and outside antennas must be separated by a minimum of 20'.
Electronic Gobbledegook
Afternoon Ken: To keep it short, I had the same conditions you mentioned. It was my original intent to install an antenna and a booster. I installed a 4 foot antenna on my arch and ran the wire into the cabin. Hooked it up to my cell and immediately picked up two bars. Never did get around to installing a booster and haven't had telephone problems since. Try the antenna first and the booster later if needed. I don't know who is right, Don or Patrick. All I rally know is what I can see and hear on my phone, 2 bars, and strong conversations!!
Afternoon Ken: To keep it short, I had the same conditions you mentioned. It was my original intent to install an antenna and a booster. I installed a 4 foot antenna on my arch and ran the wire into the cabin. Hooked it up to my cell and immediately picked up two bars. Never did get around to installing a booster and haven't had telephone problems since. Try the antenna first and the booster later if needed. I don't know who is right, Don or Patrick. All I rally know is what I can see and hear on my phone, 2 bars, and strong conversations!!
What service do you have?
Be sure your problem isn't just that your provider isn't phasing out the coverage for the phone you're using. I had the same complaint, in the same area of use (Calif. Delta), and spent around $300 for a Shakespeare remote antenna and 3-watt amp for my phone. Got essentially no improvement, and even occasional degradation with the amp/antenna setup. A couple weeks ago I was driving between Stockton and Sacramento on I-5, and had one or NO bars 80% of the time, while others got fine coverage in the same area, I decided to get to the bottom of the problem. Went to my provider's store (Cingular - previously AT&T) and asked them. It turns out I had been using an older AT&T phone with TDMA technology, which is being phased out by Cingular in favor of GSM technology. Told the salesperson at the store that I had lots of accessories for my old phone, and asked if they would work with the new one he was trying to sell me on. Got a blank stare. So I went home and researched on the web, and found that none of the phones that Cingular was now selling would work with my amp/antenna. More web research. I finally bought a phone on eBay last week that is supposedly compatable with my accessories, and works on all technologies (the old TDMA, new GSM and the CDMA network that a lot of other cell providers use). Went back to Cingular and had it activated last weekend. Drove to Sacramento on I-5 yesterday, and had 3-4 bars the entire way. Haven't been down to the boat yet to confirm it works with the antenna/amp, but in every place where I had trouble before, I've had at least a usable, if not "4-bar" connection with the new phone. That said, the Delta is notorious for bad coverage. If you use this site, you can see where cell phone towers are in the area and get an idea where reception will likely be a problem.
Be sure your problem isn't just that your provider isn't phasing out the coverage for the phone you're using. I had the same complaint, in the same area of use (Calif. Delta), and spent around $300 for a Shakespeare remote antenna and 3-watt amp for my phone. Got essentially no improvement, and even occasional degradation with the amp/antenna setup. A couple weeks ago I was driving between Stockton and Sacramento on I-5, and had one or NO bars 80% of the time, while others got fine coverage in the same area, I decided to get to the bottom of the problem. Went to my provider's store (Cingular - previously AT&T) and asked them. It turns out I had been using an older AT&T phone with TDMA technology, which is being phased out by Cingular in favor of GSM technology. Told the salesperson at the store that I had lots of accessories for my old phone, and asked if they would work with the new one he was trying to sell me on. Got a blank stare. So I went home and researched on the web, and found that none of the phones that Cingular was now selling would work with my amp/antenna. More web research. I finally bought a phone on eBay last week that is supposedly compatable with my accessories, and works on all technologies (the old TDMA, new GSM and the CDMA network that a lot of other cell providers use). Went back to Cingular and had it activated last weekend. Drove to Sacramento on I-5 yesterday, and had 3-4 bars the entire way. Haven't been down to the boat yet to confirm it works with the antenna/amp, but in every place where I had trouble before, I've had at least a usable, if not "4-bar" connection with the new phone. That said, the Delta is notorious for bad coverage. If you use this site, you can see where cell phone towers are in the area and get an idea where reception will likely be a problem.
Save yourself headaches, buy satellite
bought one of those booster....$350 wasted down the drain. Satellite fixed my problem. Phone $650, + 600minutes for the year another $600. Obviously, not worth it if you are going to be on the phone all the time. But I keep mine on the boat and use it if I need it.
bought one of those booster....$350 wasted down the drain. Satellite fixed my problem. Phone $650, + 600minutes for the year another $600. Obviously, not worth it if you are going to be on the phone all the time. But I keep mine on the boat and use it if I need it.
Thanks for responses
Thanks for all the responses. I think that I will buy an antenna first and see what happens. JB what kind of antenna did you buy to get the better reception?? Marine?? Car?? Maybe you remember the model number?? Peter from Stockton thanks for your input. I was using Verizon. Good to know about the different technology though because I am changing cell phone companies. Your cell tower web site is really cool. Thanks
Thanks for all the responses. I think that I will buy an antenna first and see what happens. JB what kind of antenna did you buy to get the better reception?? Marine?? Car?? Maybe you remember the model number?? Peter from Stockton thanks for your input. I was using Verizon. Good to know about the different technology though because I am changing cell phone companies. Your cell tower web site is really cool. Thanks
Don 954
What I was referring to and I think I said was that I was referring to the myth of a "gain" antenna as it relates to radiation pattern and I still think I am correct. No antenna produces gain but depending on it's length, can change radiation pattern somewhat under isotropic conditions. Any mfg that advertizes that much gain is simply misleading.
What I was referring to and I think I said was that I was referring to the myth of a "gain" antenna as it relates to radiation pattern and I still think I am correct. No antenna produces gain but depending on it's length, can change radiation pattern somewhat under isotropic conditions. Any mfg that advertizes that much gain is simply misleading.
Checked the boat antenna last nite...
I got to my boat last night and hooked up my new GSM phone to the antenna/amp setup. Where with the old phone I had no to one bar, with the new phone (but not hooked up to the antenna/amp), I now have 2-3. When hooked up to the antenna/amp, I had maximum 4+! Didn't get away from the dock to see what happens in spots that I was dead before, but I'm much encouraged.
I got to my boat last night and hooked up my new GSM phone to the antenna/amp setup. Where with the old phone I had no to one bar, with the new phone (but not hooked up to the antenna/amp), I now have 2-3. When hooked up to the antenna/amp, I had maximum 4+! Didn't get away from the dock to see what happens in spots that I was dead before, but I'm much encouraged.
What is the cheapest way to up coverage?
Anyone know what is the best way to up your cell coverage? I don't need a huge boost, but a little boost. Any suggestions?
Anyone know what is the best way to up your cell coverage? I don't need a huge boost, but a little boost. Any suggestions?
Cheapest or best?
Cheapest - find best service and coverage, research and build an antenna. Mount it high as possible. Locate and stay close to cell towers. Best - buy a good antenna and /or amplifier or repeater and put it up as high as you can. Alternatives to cell phone: You can get into ham radio and install one of those. That is the most flexible and useful form of communication but it is also a bit of work. It is also not for commercial purposes. You can get a marine SSB and use that but it costs. Satellite phones are really expensive. For message relays via marine VHF, you can join Vessel Assist and they will do that to a limited extent. There may be other services like that, too. Note: new cell phones have some actual or simulated GPS capability and that can be accessed online (I think by anyone) or certainly by an emergency operator. So you can be located or tracked if your cell phone is on. If you have an old phone, and old service, you may not have that option. Someone was saying on this forum earlier that the lat long data could be displayed on some phones but I cannot recall which ones. Sorry to ramble, but someone might be interested in this stuff or have something else to contribute.
Cheapest - find best service and coverage, research and build an antenna. Mount it high as possible. Locate and stay close to cell towers. Best - buy a good antenna and /or amplifier or repeater and put it up as high as you can. Alternatives to cell phone: You can get into ham radio and install one of those. That is the most flexible and useful form of communication but it is also a bit of work. It is also not for commercial purposes. You can get a marine SSB and use that but it costs. Satellite phones are really expensive. For message relays via marine VHF, you can join Vessel Assist and they will do that to a limited extent. There may be other services like that, too. Note: new cell phones have some actual or simulated GPS capability and that can be accessed online (I think by anyone) or certainly by an emergency operator. So you can be located or tracked if your cell phone is on. If you have an old phone, and old service, you may not have that option. Someone was saying on this forum earlier that the lat long data could be displayed on some phones but I cannot recall which ones. Sorry to ramble, but someone might be interested in this stuff or have something else to contribute.
- Status