I want to thank everyone who commented on the CDI furler. Sounds promising. One more Question. Ive got 3 Jibs a 125/ a working jib and a heavy air jib. Ive sent the 125 to the sailmaker to have the #6 tale installed on the luff. I`m not fond of the idea of sailing with a jib partially rolled up. As soon as I get the 125 back from the sail maker I`m planning on having the other two jibs converted. Heres my Question: just how difficult is it to remove the 125 left rolled on the furler and change it for a smaller jib on a breezy fall day Bob
CDI Roller Furl A One more Question
- Thread starter bffatcat
- Start date
- Status
Furler
One of the advantages of a furler is not having to go from one jib to the other. With a 125, I would think your worker would not be needed - unless you are racing. Simply partially furl your 125 and keep going. The shape won't be as good as your worker, but most of us with furlers live with that. I did have one sail maker tell me not to go upwind with a partially furled jib as that can stretch it, but I confess I still do it. I would think that you will find you really don't need your worker anymore now that you have the furler. To remove the 125 you will have to fully unfurl it, lower it, and put up the smaller sail. Not something fun or easy in a strong breeze. Sails are harder to raise and lower with a furler and a second person really makes the job a lot better. I would suggest only having the 125 fitted with tape for now and see how it works for you. You may find the other sails are not needed. As far as a storm jib is concerned, there is a company that makes one designed to fit over a furled sail so the bigger jib can be left on. If your worker and present storm are in good shape, maybe they can be sold to buy one of these storm jibs.
One of the advantages of a furler is not having to go from one jib to the other. With a 125, I would think your worker would not be needed - unless you are racing. Simply partially furl your 125 and keep going. The shape won't be as good as your worker, but most of us with furlers live with that. I did have one sail maker tell me not to go upwind with a partially furled jib as that can stretch it, but I confess I still do it. I would think that you will find you really don't need your worker anymore now that you have the furler. To remove the 125 you will have to fully unfurl it, lower it, and put up the smaller sail. Not something fun or easy in a strong breeze. Sails are harder to raise and lower with a furler and a second person really makes the job a lot better. I would suggest only having the 125 fitted with tape for now and see how it works for you. You may find the other sails are not needed. As far as a storm jib is concerned, there is a company that makes one designed to fit over a furled sail so the bigger jib can be left on. If your worker and present storm are in good shape, maybe they can be sold to buy one of these storm jibs.
Bob ....
The conversion of hank-on sails to 'continuous support tape' luffs has been going on now for about 30 years with success. True, a sail on a roller furler will simply become a baggy pillowcase at the first % of furling; however, .... If correctly 'converted' a sail on a roller furler CAN be reefed down **by 30% sail area reduction** .... and still have 'good shape' above that 30% reduction by adding foam padding at the luff, using altered luff hollow shapes, etc, etc. etc. . There are other 'tricks' to increase this % but for the average, 30% is about a good correct number for maximum furling-reefing with most modern sail materials. 150% X .7 can be successfully reefed down to 105% 120% X .7 = 85% 100 x.7 = 70% .. ... and if correctly coverted/designed will have relatively GOOD shape down to this 30% SA reduction limit. I prefer Harken furlers because they can withstand higher halyard loads .... needed to correctly SHAPE a furlable or hank on sail made of woven dacron/polyester. It may have changed but CDI furlers dont operate with traditional halyards ... and therefore the shape adjustment on a jib/genoa is impossible. For changing jibs ... consider to purchase a furler system with a two groove foil. Then (just like is done with the 'twin-groove' foil Tuff-Luff system used on racing boats) to change: raise the other sail in the additional groove, tack, then *peel* down the sail that needs to be removed. .... and you wont lose 3 inches or 3 seconds of sailing time if the raise is done on the windward side of 2 sails, and the 'drop'/peel is done on the windward side of both sails. If you're not racing in precise high quality fleets .... I will wager highly that once you start using a furler-reefing system you will hardly ever ever need to do an inside / outside 'peel' for a jib/genoa to replace whats already on a furler. Betcha you just simply JUST furl the installed foam-luffed 150, etc. hope this helps.
The conversion of hank-on sails to 'continuous support tape' luffs has been going on now for about 30 years with success. True, a sail on a roller furler will simply become a baggy pillowcase at the first % of furling; however, .... If correctly 'converted' a sail on a roller furler CAN be reefed down **by 30% sail area reduction** .... and still have 'good shape' above that 30% reduction by adding foam padding at the luff, using altered luff hollow shapes, etc, etc. etc. . There are other 'tricks' to increase this % but for the average, 30% is about a good correct number for maximum furling-reefing with most modern sail materials. 150% X .7 can be successfully reefed down to 105% 120% X .7 = 85% 100 x.7 = 70% .. ... and if correctly coverted/designed will have relatively GOOD shape down to this 30% SA reduction limit. I prefer Harken furlers because they can withstand higher halyard loads .... needed to correctly SHAPE a furlable or hank on sail made of woven dacron/polyester. It may have changed but CDI furlers dont operate with traditional halyards ... and therefore the shape adjustment on a jib/genoa is impossible. For changing jibs ... consider to purchase a furler system with a two groove foil. Then (just like is done with the 'twin-groove' foil Tuff-Luff system used on racing boats) to change: raise the other sail in the additional groove, tack, then *peel* down the sail that needs to be removed. .... and you wont lose 3 inches or 3 seconds of sailing time if the raise is done on the windward side of 2 sails, and the 'drop'/peel is done on the windward side of both sails. If you're not racing in precise high quality fleets .... I will wager highly that once you start using a furler-reefing system you will hardly ever ever need to do an inside / outside 'peel' for a jib/genoa to replace whats already on a furler. Betcha you just simply JUST furl the installed foam-luffed 150, etc. hope this helps.
Foam Luff
My 150 has a foam luff (built that way from the start by Quantum) and it holds a good shape reefed down to a 130. The last boat I had didn't have the foam and sail shape degraded immediately upon reefing, getting worse then more you reefed. I don't know if the foam can be retro-fit to an old sail but I would highly recommend it. Tom s/v Orion's Child
My 150 has a foam luff (built that way from the start by Quantum) and it holds a good shape reefed down to a 130. The last boat I had didn't have the foam and sail shape degraded immediately upon reefing, getting worse then more you reefed. I don't know if the foam can be retro-fit to an old sail but I would highly recommend it. Tom s/v Orion's Child
why have a furler
if you are going to make sail changes anyway? The furler will only make the sail changes harder. Evan if you had a furler w/ 2 groves (I do) you still have to have both sails unfurled to raise and lower them. I sail with my 135 reefed whenever the wind tells me too. I don't race and don't claim perfect sail shape but don't have any problem getting to hull speed in windy conditions with my 130 reefed to less than a 100. The biggest mistake I made with my 130 was to have a Sunbrella protective strip added. It is so heavy that my light air sail shape really suffers.
if you are going to make sail changes anyway? The furler will only make the sail changes harder. Evan if you had a furler w/ 2 groves (I do) you still have to have both sails unfurled to raise and lower them. I sail with my 135 reefed whenever the wind tells me too. I don't race and don't claim perfect sail shape but don't have any problem getting to hull speed in windy conditions with my 130 reefed to less than a 100. The biggest mistake I made with my 130 was to have a Sunbrella protective strip added. It is so heavy that my light air sail shape really suffers.
I agree with Bill
If you intend to change sails, a furler would make life much much more difficult. The idea behind a furler is so that you DONT have to change sails. Also, furler on a 125 doesnt make much sense to me either. With a 125, just go ahead and stay with a hank on. I wouldnt get a furler unlessit was for a 150 or a 155. As for efficiency losses when furled, if you dont race it doesnt matter. Some will quote you percentages but most of that is more theoretical than practical. My Catalina 30 has a 150 and I rolled it down way past 1005 and it still kept me at hull speed or better. Each boat reacts differently based on design. In 25K winds, my Catalina 30 was a slug with main only. Unroll the jib just a tad and she would fly. Tony B
If you intend to change sails, a furler would make life much much more difficult. The idea behind a furler is so that you DONT have to change sails. Also, furler on a 125 doesnt make much sense to me either. With a 125, just go ahead and stay with a hank on. I wouldnt get a furler unlessit was for a 150 or a 155. As for efficiency losses when furled, if you dont race it doesnt matter. Some will quote you percentages but most of that is more theoretical than practical. My Catalina 30 has a 150 and I rolled it down way past 1005 and it still kept me at hull speed or better. Each boat reacts differently based on design. In 25K winds, my Catalina 30 was a slug with main only. Unroll the jib just a tad and she would fly. Tony B
Raising a jib on a windy day with a CDI FF
Don't get me wrong, I love the CDI flexifurler on my boat, and the price is right, but it is not a good design if you plan to change your sail often. It is bad enough to raise and lower the sail once per year! I raised my 100% jib on a windy day at the mooring...exactly the situation you would have if you decided to change sails...and it was pure hell. It is nearly impossible to gain the leverage necessary to raise the jib while pulling on the tiny little messenger line that is the integral halyard. The messenger has a metal slug on it that rides in a groove in the furler foil and it jams frequently. If anyone has some tips I'd love to hear them. Maybe I should tie a bigger line on the end with a loop in it or something. I'm afraid to use a winch because the whole thing just doesn't work that smoothly. I'm afraid to damage something. FYI I am only trying to raise the jib of a 25 footer with a fractional rig at that! Also, I agree with what other said regarding furling. I tried to sail with a slightly furler jib with no foam luff and it didn't work well at all. I just rolled up the jib. Bob
Don't get me wrong, I love the CDI flexifurler on my boat, and the price is right, but it is not a good design if you plan to change your sail often. It is bad enough to raise and lower the sail once per year! I raised my 100% jib on a windy day at the mooring...exactly the situation you would have if you decided to change sails...and it was pure hell. It is nearly impossible to gain the leverage necessary to raise the jib while pulling on the tiny little messenger line that is the integral halyard. The messenger has a metal slug on it that rides in a groove in the furler foil and it jams frequently. If anyone has some tips I'd love to hear them. Maybe I should tie a bigger line on the end with a loop in it or something. I'm afraid to use a winch because the whole thing just doesn't work that smoothly. I'm afraid to damage something. FYI I am only trying to raise the jib of a 25 footer with a fractional rig at that! Also, I agree with what other said regarding furling. I tried to sail with a slightly furler jib with no foam luff and it didn't work well at all. I just rolled up the jib. Bob
Bob M- CDI Furler
I just read about your difficulty with The CDI furler in hoisting the genoa. I also installed a CDI on my tall rig Catalina 30 several years back. What I do each spring is attach a screwdriver to the messenger line and use the srewdriver as a handle for pulling down as the sail goes up. I will not raise the genoa in any sort of breeze as it is just too difficult for me. I changed the messenger line that came with the furler to a heavier line which also helps somewhat. It is tricky to secure the sail to the block on the furler drum and still keep the sail fully hoisted. Each year I seem to get better at it, but I still don't like it.
I just read about your difficulty with The CDI furler in hoisting the genoa. I also installed a CDI on my tall rig Catalina 30 several years back. What I do each spring is attach a screwdriver to the messenger line and use the srewdriver as a handle for pulling down as the sail goes up. I will not raise the genoa in any sort of breeze as it is just too difficult for me. I changed the messenger line that came with the furler to a heavier line which also helps somewhat. It is tricky to secure the sail to the block on the furler drum and still keep the sail fully hoisted. Each year I seem to get better at it, but I still don't like it.
- Status