CDI Furler Halyard Tension

justsomeguy · Aug 26, 2015

I have found on my CDI furler that it's quite difficult to fully raise the genoa when the mast is up. Had to winch the thing the last couple of feet.

Slides like a dream when horizontal, though.

If your mast is easy to step and unstep, this could be a possible workaround.

woodster · Aug 26, 2015

cb32863 said:
For you all that own a CDI furler, you know that the halyard situation is not the best. I find mine doing a little stretch and slip resulting in not the best tension on the genoa's luff. (See pic below).

So what have you done to remedy this situation?

PS: Jackdaw and I were out on my 235, Seeker, yesterday and that is a screen cap from GoPro "Testing". 8-12 kts and it was a great day to not be in the office!

hoist it up hard as you can then tighten the downhaul line at the bottom of the grommet as tight as you can or the lasing ...what ever you have......the lines do stretch ...maybe some dyneema line.....

and after thinking about this question you had one of the best to give you that advice on your boat yesterday

Brian S · Aug 26, 2015

Replace with a Schaefer Snap-Furl that uses the original jib halyard to tension the luff?

Most people I know with CDI get the jib up in spring, and that's where it stays until haul out. And most people I know with CDI do not race at all. I know you and Jackdaw will be squeezing for all the performance you can...

In my very limited experience with a CDI on a Com-Pac 19, it seemed if I hauled on the halyard too much, it made the foil go more bendy and wavy. On that boat, the foil wasn't especially straight to begin with. Also, was an older version of the furler that had only 1 shackle to tie off the tack and the halyard.

I suppose an argument could be made that the flat foil of a CDI creates less turbulence than the round shaped Snap-Furl, but I bet the ability to control luff tension a bit can make up for that.

Jackdaw · Aug 26, 2015

Yea we never got around to that one.

The CDI internal halyard is a clever way to keep product costs down as it eliminates the top swivel and greatly simplifies the bottom one. But it for sure introduces performance issues, halyard tension being the big one.

First make sure the jib slides OK in the groove; pull it down and hit the luff tape with McLube. Then play with it. The cheap line they use stretches. So pre-tension it so the luff will look OK in 10 knots. Sadly that will be over-tight for light airs unless you adjust it. Use a GOOD KNOT that will not slip. Mark the line with one or more positions you can pre-set based on conditions. As you know we adjust halyard tension continually, before and during the race.

Its why CDIs are not common on really racy boats. But the 235 can do just fine with it. Fix your traveler and vang first. Those two things are diabolical on your boat!

Jackdaw · Aug 26, 2015

cb32863 said:
I think there was too much "refreshment" and talk about the ladies for us to get to that subject yesterday. Definately going after the traveller first, then the vang. When "Boat Bucks" allow. Though, I may have the cams for the traveller in my garage as I bought a couple for Old & Slow a couple years ago and never used them. Finding them is the other issue.....

Was great being back out on a 235. Love that little boat; but like all boats it could use some help in the factory setup. Yours being new to you could also use some TLC on some of the hard-working systems. My take on how you should spend your money: ;^)

1) Replace the slipping crapped-out cam-cleats on the traveler with Harken 150s. Think about putting high-aspect cages on them. I'd do this before I sailed again. $70-90

2) Re-do all your tell-tails. Correctly!

3) Double the vang to x8 with a length of dyneema and a good block. $45

4) Move the vang attach point on the boom back 6 inches. $free

5) Convert the two speed mainsheet ftom 4:1/2:1 to 6:1/3:1. $65

6) Straighten your windex. $free

You could do all those for about $200 and an afternoons time. Huge.

7) Swap out that mickey mouse backstay thing. $depends

8) Increase traveler from 2:1 to 3:1 at least. $100-200

EXTRA CREDIT - Swap for remote adjustable cars on the genoa track. This pays HUGE benefits; I cant stand to sail on a boat without them. Its like not having a traveler.

Spin Kit - Because.

That motor. Dragging that costs you more than you know.

Zed · Aug 26, 2015

I don't know anyone who has tried to take a CDI FF1 foresail down and put up another one when its on the boat. I would bet that 99% of us don't do that except in drydock in the winter. We have a roller furler so that we can furl it, even though we know than furling a genoa much down below a 110% lapper doesn't make for a properly shaped sail.

Crazy Dave Condon · Aug 27, 2015

I agree with Jackdaw, a different furler for the avid racer is suggested. However, I used CDI furlers mostly the FF1 and FF2 for the cruising sailor due to many factors to include lower cost, easier to rig, had it's own internal halyard and was great with a trailerable boat as the concern of damage was not really a consideration vs. that of an aluminum extrusion which takes a lot more care. For cruising I would suggest the CDI but for racing I concur with Jackdaw on a different system

Brian S · Aug 27, 2015

Just a note, I have found the cam cleats from Viadana, available at www.sailcare.com, to be pretty good at half the price of Harken.

Jerry from Sail Care once explained to me that the Harken H150 was designed by a Spanish fellow, who licensed the design to Harken in the US, and Viadana in Eurpoe and South America. Viadana contacted Sail Care to be a dealer in the US.

The Viadana cam cleat is not finished quite as smoothly as the Harken, but they have been working every bit as well on my O'day as the Harken H150s I put on my old Harpoon. And a helluvalot better than the SS/plastic Schaefer cleats they replaced.

I've also been using some Viadana blocks. Funky shape, they seem to work ok and have held up for the past 3 years alright.

cb32863 said:
I found a pair of 150's that I had previously bought for Old & Slow and am planning on swapping those out before today's race.

As for the other stuff, yep, definitely on the list of things to do. If you would like to contribute to my boat fund.....

Traveller mods I got priced out around $400 for new car, ends and some blocks. Vang is probably going to be next as all I need is a new block for that. Backstay blocks about $150.... and then there is the rest.

I don't drop the sail, the halyard just stretches a bit over time.

Jackdaw · Aug 27, 2015

Brian S said:
Just a note, I have found the cam cleats from Viadana, available at www.sailcare.com, to be pretty good at half the price of Harken.

Jerry from Sail Care once explained to me that the Harken H150 was designed by a Spanish fellow, who licensed the design to Harken in the US, and Viadana in Eurpoe and South America. Viadana contacted Sail Care to be a dealer in the US.

The Viadana cam cleat is not finished quite as smoothly as the Harken, but they have been working every bit as well on my O'day as the Harken H150s I put on my old Harpoon. And a helluvalot better than the SS/plastic Schaefer cleats they replaced.

I've also been using some Viadana blocks. Funky shape, they seem to work ok and have held up for the past 3 years alright.

Interesting story about the patent. I didn't know that. I do know that several other companies (Burton in the UK, Nautos in Brazil, etc) sell cheaper clones of the 150s. Maybe that all made in the same factory in China.

CDI Furler Halyard Tension

.

Attachments

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.