I am curious to hear what people think is the best thing to do when caught in a thunderstorm when you are away from a safe harbor or an anchorage. For arguments sake, let's assume that lightning and wind, but not waves, are factors. Is it dangerous to touch a metal wheel? If the safest place is inside the cabin, should you just take down the sails and wait out the storm while you drift? What if drifting is not an option, e.g. you are in deep water, but near rocks?
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yikes.
I seem to have pushed the wrong button there, sorry. ....... The safest place to be during an electrical storm is near the water line, away from shrouds, stays or the mast (or compression post, as the case may be.) Given the situation where I'm offshore and waves are not a problem, I'd have the autopilot doing the driving and would introduce course corrections via remote. Since my 410 doesn't have a backstay, we use the aft cabin as a storm shelter when the lightning gets ferocious.
I seem to have pushed the wrong button there, sorry. ....... The safest place to be during an electrical storm is near the water line, away from shrouds, stays or the mast (or compression post, as the case may be.) Given the situation where I'm offshore and waves are not a problem, I'd have the autopilot doing the driving and would introduce course corrections via remote. Since my 410 doesn't have a backstay, we use the aft cabin as a storm shelter when the lightning gets ferocious.
Possible options
I'm not sure the metal wheel would be that dangerous as it's pretty much electrically isolated from the rest of the boat. I'd drop the sails as wind and water over dacron can build up a charge which might encourage a strike. I'd also clip a cable to one of the shrouds with a grounding plate and drop that in the water. That will help keep your rig at the same potential as the water you're in and also give any strike an easy path to ground in case you did get hit. It also keeps the path to ground outside the boat. In any case I'd start the engine. You really don't want to be sailing when you get hit by a 60kt microburst from a thunderstorm. Jim "Prospect"
I'm not sure the metal wheel would be that dangerous as it's pretty much electrically isolated from the rest of the boat. I'd drop the sails as wind and water over dacron can build up a charge which might encourage a strike. I'd also clip a cable to one of the shrouds with a grounding plate and drop that in the water. That will help keep your rig at the same potential as the water you're in and also give any strike an easy path to ground in case you did get hit. It also keeps the path to ground outside the boat. In any case I'd start the engine. You really don't want to be sailing when you get hit by a 60kt microburst from a thunderstorm. Jim "Prospect"
First things first
Assuming that before slipping away from your mooring, "everything is set up ready for deployment, I head her into the wind reef the main, go below close all ports & hatches, place a couple of boards in the companion way, start the engine, and set a course for open water. and wait, lightening, will strike you before it will strike the wheel, if it gets more forceful, reef the jib or partial roll up if furling, What you need is boat control, and you can't get it with a small auxillary engine, if it becomes worse, reef the main if you can or take it down, you can maintain course with a partial rolled up jib, if you need more control, now you can use the engine, which has been in nuetral, but the bottom line is to keep away from the shore line and don't attemp entering any sheltered areas. To many sailors get up tight, and panic, and try to come in, and find themselves on the beach, it's best to head for deep water and chill out, you can also take down all sails kill the engine and drag you anchors, if thet'll hold.
Assuming that before slipping away from your mooring, "everything is set up ready for deployment, I head her into the wind reef the main, go below close all ports & hatches, place a couple of boards in the companion way, start the engine, and set a course for open water. and wait, lightening, will strike you before it will strike the wheel, if it gets more forceful, reef the jib or partial roll up if furling, What you need is boat control, and you can't get it with a small auxillary engine, if it becomes worse, reef the main if you can or take it down, you can maintain course with a partial rolled up jib, if you need more control, now you can use the engine, which has been in nuetral, but the bottom line is to keep away from the shore line and don't attemp entering any sheltered areas. To many sailors get up tight, and panic, and try to come in, and find themselves on the beach, it's best to head for deep water and chill out, you can also take down all sails kill the engine and drag you anchors, if thet'll hold.
relative shelter
What about getting into a cove for shelter from the wind, but anchoring just far enough offshore to make the taller trees a better target for lightning? Any thoughts?
What about getting into a cove for shelter from the wind, but anchoring just far enough offshore to make the taller trees a better target for lightning? Any thoughts?
Baptism by Fire (long)
In 1990 and 1991 Nelleke and I spent a total of 6 summer months on Bob Buchanan's Hunter Legend 33.5 "Wind Tryst", sailing the Chesapeake Bay out of Havre de Grace. We soon came to regard violent thunderstorms as a way of life there. Wind Tryst twice took a lightning hit in the marina, perhaps because much of the time her keel would be touching bottom there. Two or three times we were caught by the full force of the storm out on the bay, though fortunately not hit by lightning. Since then, on our own Legend 43 "Rivendel II", we have sailed into bad thunderstorms a half dozen times, or so, in the North and South Pacific. Coupled with my fairly strong background in physics I should be quite an expert by now, right? Wrong! I still feel almost as puzzled and intimidated by many aspects of thunderstorms, particularly how best to protect ourselves and our vessel, as that first year on the Chesapeake. Therefore, my first inclination was not to react to this thread at all. However, I like to believe that we DID learn some practical lessons, though mostly "the hard way". Therefore, let me try to sum up how we now tend to react when we see a thunderstorm approach, and why. Perhaps our experience may help some beginning sailors on this board. Scenario 1 - OFFSHORE For every thunderstorm we are caught in offshore we usually manage to avoid, or skirt, at least two others by making the necessary course corrections when we find ourselves on a collision course. Maybe this is more easily accomplished in the Pacific tradewind belts where, outside the hurricane season, thunderstorms tend to be relatively compact and associated with the pesky squalls in the late evening and early night hours. Basically, avoiding a fast moving, compact thunderstorm that is visible on the radar is not much different from avoiding a collision with a large aircraft carrier. When skirting the storm cloud canopy by no more than a few miles, however, caution is still advisable as lightning can supposedly reach out over surprisingly large distances and sudden, strong windgusts are common. Thus, in that situation we still tend to put an extra reef in the main. If we cannot avoid going below the cloud canopy, we always furl the genny (leaving the staysail unfurled till the first gust hits), and take a deep reef in the main (or completely drop the main if things look very threatening), start the engine, connect the autopilot and go below as soon as lightning starts hitting nearby. If conditions are very rough one of these transparent lexan domes looks like a wonderful solution to keep an eye on things (we don't have that installed). Scenario 2 - CLOSE TO LAND In order to explain our preferred reaction pattern when close to land, let me relate a real-life experience. During a late afternoon sail with "Wind Tryst" on the Chesapeake in August 1991 we saw a black squall line with towering dark clouds approaching fast from the western shore and were enough intimidated to take all sails down immmediately and go on the enginw with the idea of motoring back to the harbor through the narrow, buoyed channel between the shallows. Fortunately, the storm hit while we were still in the broader part of the channel. Even without any sail up we were heeled strongly in the gusts and the churning water and mud in the channel soon had the depth meter reading zero, although we were not (yet) aground. I told Nelleke and a guest crew member to go below. Coupled with near-zero visibility, lightning strikes all around us and even brief periods of stinging hail, I was at a loss about our exact position and just tried to retrace our last compass course in order to reach deeper water. I knew it was only a matter of time before we were likely to go aground, in which case the high waves would be pounding keel and rudder into the sandy mud. Suddenly, I spotted a lighted green buoy nearby and was able to keep Wind tryst on station about 10 ft downwind of the buoy, sometimes needing 2/3 full engine power to avoid being driven off, until the storm blew over. It all lasted only 20 minutes, or so. I am discussing this in some detail to give everyone a feel of the situation and make it clear that trying to sail back into the a harbor, cove or channel under imminent threat of a major thunderstorm is simply foolhardy as you can neither count on your depth meter or any type of visibility. If your engine overheats, or is overpowered by wind and waves, you will end up running aground..... Scenario 3 - BERTHED, MOORED or ANCHORED Sorry, I am running out of time and will have to talk about our experience under these conditions later, if I can. Flying Dutchman "Rivendel II" (Legend 43, hull # 1)
In 1990 and 1991 Nelleke and I spent a total of 6 summer months on Bob Buchanan's Hunter Legend 33.5 "Wind Tryst", sailing the Chesapeake Bay out of Havre de Grace. We soon came to regard violent thunderstorms as a way of life there. Wind Tryst twice took a lightning hit in the marina, perhaps because much of the time her keel would be touching bottom there. Two or three times we were caught by the full force of the storm out on the bay, though fortunately not hit by lightning. Since then, on our own Legend 43 "Rivendel II", we have sailed into bad thunderstorms a half dozen times, or so, in the North and South Pacific. Coupled with my fairly strong background in physics I should be quite an expert by now, right? Wrong! I still feel almost as puzzled and intimidated by many aspects of thunderstorms, particularly how best to protect ourselves and our vessel, as that first year on the Chesapeake. Therefore, my first inclination was not to react to this thread at all. However, I like to believe that we DID learn some practical lessons, though mostly "the hard way". Therefore, let me try to sum up how we now tend to react when we see a thunderstorm approach, and why. Perhaps our experience may help some beginning sailors on this board. Scenario 1 - OFFSHORE For every thunderstorm we are caught in offshore we usually manage to avoid, or skirt, at least two others by making the necessary course corrections when we find ourselves on a collision course. Maybe this is more easily accomplished in the Pacific tradewind belts where, outside the hurricane season, thunderstorms tend to be relatively compact and associated with the pesky squalls in the late evening and early night hours. Basically, avoiding a fast moving, compact thunderstorm that is visible on the radar is not much different from avoiding a collision with a large aircraft carrier. When skirting the storm cloud canopy by no more than a few miles, however, caution is still advisable as lightning can supposedly reach out over surprisingly large distances and sudden, strong windgusts are common. Thus, in that situation we still tend to put an extra reef in the main. If we cannot avoid going below the cloud canopy, we always furl the genny (leaving the staysail unfurled till the first gust hits), and take a deep reef in the main (or completely drop the main if things look very threatening), start the engine, connect the autopilot and go below as soon as lightning starts hitting nearby. If conditions are very rough one of these transparent lexan domes looks like a wonderful solution to keep an eye on things (we don't have that installed). Scenario 2 - CLOSE TO LAND In order to explain our preferred reaction pattern when close to land, let me relate a real-life experience. During a late afternoon sail with "Wind Tryst" on the Chesapeake in August 1991 we saw a black squall line with towering dark clouds approaching fast from the western shore and were enough intimidated to take all sails down immmediately and go on the enginw with the idea of motoring back to the harbor through the narrow, buoyed channel between the shallows. Fortunately, the storm hit while we were still in the broader part of the channel. Even without any sail up we were heeled strongly in the gusts and the churning water and mud in the channel soon had the depth meter reading zero, although we were not (yet) aground. I told Nelleke and a guest crew member to go below. Coupled with near-zero visibility, lightning strikes all around us and even brief periods of stinging hail, I was at a loss about our exact position and just tried to retrace our last compass course in order to reach deeper water. I knew it was only a matter of time before we were likely to go aground, in which case the high waves would be pounding keel and rudder into the sandy mud. Suddenly, I spotted a lighted green buoy nearby and was able to keep Wind tryst on station about 10 ft downwind of the buoy, sometimes needing 2/3 full engine power to avoid being driven off, until the storm blew over. It all lasted only 20 minutes, or so. I am discussing this in some detail to give everyone a feel of the situation and make it clear that trying to sail back into the a harbor, cove or channel under imminent threat of a major thunderstorm is simply foolhardy as you can neither count on your depth meter or any type of visibility. If your engine overheats, or is overpowered by wind and waves, you will end up running aground..... Scenario 3 - BERTHED, MOORED or ANCHORED Sorry, I am running out of time and will have to talk about our experience under these conditions later, if I can. Flying Dutchman "Rivendel II" (Legend 43, hull # 1)
Thunder storms
I was told that if you carry a battery cable with alligator clips on one end you can attach them to your shroud and put the other end in the water. Therefor if you do get hit hopefully the shrouds will for a Faraday Cage and the battery cables will ground out in the water.
I was told that if you carry a battery cable with alligator clips on one end you can attach them to your shroud and put the other end in the water. Therefor if you do get hit hopefully the shrouds will for a Faraday Cage and the battery cables will ground out in the water.
"Lightning & Boats" by Michael Huck
This book does not cover sailing in storms, but provides good general information about lightning, boats, and minimizing danger & damage. Pete Albright s/v Nancy Ross '77 H30
This book does not cover sailing in storms, but provides good general information about lightning, boats, and minimizing danger & damage. Pete Albright s/v Nancy Ross '77 H30
Lightning is a rebel,
Lightning is a rebel...it doesn't like to follow the rules. I'm not an expert, but I've learned a few things being in the wireless business dealing with radio towers. 1. Lightning/electricity does not take the path of least resistance. It takes most any path it can, more of it just goes to the path of least resistance. 2. You can't count on lightning to constrain itself to the mast, shrouds and stays. There's a lot of energy there and it can jump around. 3. Wires and such used to ground the lightning to the water must not have hard bends. Lightning doesn't make abrupt turns very well. 4. Lightning is attracted to areas of higher density charge which occurs at points (tops of masts, steeples, trees, golfer standing on the green). Metal is not what attracts it. 5. Clipping jumper cables over the side an into the water MAY drain the charge which would occur at the top of the mast, so it MIGHT be helpful. I'm not so sure that such a weak and bendy electrical connection will help carry a strike to the water. 6. Some in the field believe you can imagine a giant 50' (or is it 100? I don't remember) ball to see if you are protected. So, if your boat was in its slip it would be protected by higher masts around it if a big 50' ball sitting on those higher masts was held up such that it didn't touch your mast. (Clear as mud. Right?) 7. At this point, based on what I know, I still don't know what the best answer is. Sail safe. Ron Mehringer H26 Hydro-Therapy
Lightning is a rebel...it doesn't like to follow the rules. I'm not an expert, but I've learned a few things being in the wireless business dealing with radio towers. 1. Lightning/electricity does not take the path of least resistance. It takes most any path it can, more of it just goes to the path of least resistance. 2. You can't count on lightning to constrain itself to the mast, shrouds and stays. There's a lot of energy there and it can jump around. 3. Wires and such used to ground the lightning to the water must not have hard bends. Lightning doesn't make abrupt turns very well. 4. Lightning is attracted to areas of higher density charge which occurs at points (tops of masts, steeples, trees, golfer standing on the green). Metal is not what attracts it. 5. Clipping jumper cables over the side an into the water MAY drain the charge which would occur at the top of the mast, so it MIGHT be helpful. I'm not so sure that such a weak and bendy electrical connection will help carry a strike to the water. 6. Some in the field believe you can imagine a giant 50' (or is it 100? I don't remember) ball to see if you are protected. So, if your boat was in its slip it would be protected by higher masts around it if a big 50' ball sitting on those higher masts was held up such that it didn't touch your mast. (Clear as mud. Right?) 7. At this point, based on what I know, I still don't know what the best answer is. Sail safe. Ron Mehringer H26 Hydro-Therapy
Donner and Blitzen
It really depends how much sea room you have and what kind of storm you are dealing with. My advice: 1) know where you are and where there is sea room; 2) as the storm approaches don't play hero sailor, drop all sail early, start the engine, and secure all ports and hatches; 3) secure the cockpit by stowing the bimini and removing anything that could blow away (I have had a Chesapeake thunderstorm overstress and actually open the zippers of a brand new bimini); 4) get into foul weather gear, and unplug the masthead antennae (I suspect that if you are hit this will not save the radio anyway); 5) send all unnecessary crew down below with instructions not to touch anything metal and close the hatch boards behind them. Until the storm hits, we generally run a course for sea room using the autopilot with remote, but are also aware of what courses we definately do not want to run. Assume you will be hit by fierce wind from any direction, have 0 visibility for 20 minutes, and you may not be able to maintain your preferred course. Some skippers motor into the wind when the storm strikes, but I have often found that tactic to be fruitless. It often requires lots of engine power and forward speed to keep the bow into the wind, and the apparent wind caused by that forward speed along with smashing into building waves adds to the drama. It is often much more comfortable to turn your stern to the wind, put the engine in neutral, and try to relax and enjoy the ride. Thunder storms, while frightening, can also be very beautiful. All larger Hunters have a lightening ground system, so extra measures such as jumper cables or chains over the side are probably useless. Regardless, boats get hit all the time, but who and when seems to be a study for Chaos theory experts. Be prepared, you may have no electiceal system when it is over, you may have to use a manual bilge pump, you may have thousands of dollars of gelcoat damage, and you may have a major hole in the boat. We like to keep a cell phone and protable VHF stowed away from the action in hopes that they will work if needed in an emergency. Fortunately, we have never been hit by lightening, and we have been in some real whoppers. It is a wonder that boats are not hit more often.
It really depends how much sea room you have and what kind of storm you are dealing with. My advice: 1) know where you are and where there is sea room; 2) as the storm approaches don't play hero sailor, drop all sail early, start the engine, and secure all ports and hatches; 3) secure the cockpit by stowing the bimini and removing anything that could blow away (I have had a Chesapeake thunderstorm overstress and actually open the zippers of a brand new bimini); 4) get into foul weather gear, and unplug the masthead antennae (I suspect that if you are hit this will not save the radio anyway); 5) send all unnecessary crew down below with instructions not to touch anything metal and close the hatch boards behind them. Until the storm hits, we generally run a course for sea room using the autopilot with remote, but are also aware of what courses we definately do not want to run. Assume you will be hit by fierce wind from any direction, have 0 visibility for 20 minutes, and you may not be able to maintain your preferred course. Some skippers motor into the wind when the storm strikes, but I have often found that tactic to be fruitless. It often requires lots of engine power and forward speed to keep the bow into the wind, and the apparent wind caused by that forward speed along with smashing into building waves adds to the drama. It is often much more comfortable to turn your stern to the wind, put the engine in neutral, and try to relax and enjoy the ride. Thunder storms, while frightening, can also be very beautiful. All larger Hunters have a lightening ground system, so extra measures such as jumper cables or chains over the side are probably useless. Regardless, boats get hit all the time, but who and when seems to be a study for Chaos theory experts. Be prepared, you may have no electiceal system when it is over, you may have to use a manual bilge pump, you may have thousands of dollars of gelcoat damage, and you may have a major hole in the boat. We like to keep a cell phone and protable VHF stowed away from the action in hopes that they will work if needed in an emergency. Fortunately, we have never been hit by lightening, and we have been in some real whoppers. It is a wonder that boats are not hit more often.
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