Catilina 30 Merrimack River Mass to B and O canal

Stu Jackson · May 12, 2021

What engine?

If it is an M25, like many, it will be 0.5 gph. Take the distance and divide by 4 or 5 knot speed and that will tell you how long. Of course, weather and wave conditions could affect things.

If you have an M25 engine, these may help you:

Engines 101 - The BIGGEST & BEST collection of M25 Series Universal Engine Information on the Internet, plus some M35, too

Diesel Engine - c34.org

and

101 Topics "101" Series - Quick Links to "Popular" Topics includes "Electrical Systems 101"

and

Critical Upgrades http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5078.0.html

Stu Jackson · May 12, 2021

jbstuebner said:
I’m told it’s a universal 20hp diesel, with low hours.

jb, Universal didn't make a 20 hp, Westerbeke may have. An M25 is 21 hp, an M25XP is 23 hp (but they didn't start installing them until 1987) in Catalinas.

Davidasailor26 · May 12, 2021

Welcome to the forum!

How much time do you have to make the trip? You might want to consider having the boat trucked down to the Chesapeake. It won’t be the inexpensive option but it would be safer given your lack of experience and the fact that the boat is unknown to you. If you have lots of time you could pick your weather windows to take manageable size jumps through Long Island Sound and down the NJ coast. There will still be some risks if the engine breaks down or the fuel is contaminated - not an uncommon issue in older boats - and some of the hops, like the lower NJ shore and Delaware Bay can get rough.

dlochner · May 12, 2021

Welcome to the forum and to sailing. It is a great past time.

The short way from Newburyport, MA to the north entrance of the C&D Canal is about 400 miles with much of it off shore. Sailing straight through at 5 knots will take about at least 3 to 4 days of constant motoring/sailing.

Taking the coastal route, hoping along the shore will add a couple of hundred miles. It could be done nonstop. More realistically if you take the coastal route you can cover about 40 to 50 miles a day depending on tides and currents and weather. This will make it a 10 day to 2 week trip.

Either route is an ambitious trip for a new sailor. If you took the long slow route and stayed at marinas, you may find having it trucked is not that expensive. I'm not sure what marinas along the way charge, up here on Lake Ontario the rate is usually $2 a foot or more.

Scott T-Bird · May 12, 2021

Welcome @jbstuebner, if you want to spend the appropriate amount of time and you have help, you can do this trip. I wouldn't worry much about fuel. Diesels literally sip fuel. Last year at the end of June, we made the trip from Cataumet, MA to Barnegat, NJ in my Catalina 320 in a 6-day trip. We were on mooring, anchor or slip each night. You should be able to make the trip in about 10 days if you take it easy ... less if you push harder than we did. You won't have to fill the tank each day. Like stated above, the fuel usage will be about .5 gallons per hour.

Your trip is going to be about 550 statute miles. Lets say that is about 100 hours motoring at just under 6mph average. That will be about 50 gallons. If you have a 20 gallon tank, you will need to fill it at least 3 times including when you start. I'd figure on making about 4 fuel stops (counting your departure) and I would carry a 5 gallon jerry can filled with fuel just in case you are in a bind. We did our trip and only filled once in Branford CT - strike that, it was Port Washington - on our way back to Barnegat.

I would look for somebody to join you ... somebody with some boating experience. You can do this trip by motoring only, but it would be more fun to sail when you can. You may find either a stiff wind out of the SW, which will be mostly in your face, or no wind. If you have a nice breezed behind you, you can sail and make good time in relative comfort. All-in-all, you should plan on motoring the whole way, unless you think you can manage the sails up.

You are going to see a lot of open water, from the Merrimack to the Annisquam, again from Gloucester to say Plymouth (dpending on your route), you may see some very stiff breeze in your face all the way down Buzzard's Bay, from Cuttyhunk to LIS you will be in open water, LIS can be very difficult or it can be very benign depending upon conditions. You must be familiar and comfortable with the tides and currents during your run through NYC and Hell's Gate. You can't make it thru with opposing current. You will be in the ocean all the way from Sandy Hook to Cape May unless you decide to go inside from Manasquan Inlet or Barnegat Inlet to Atlantic City. You will be outside again to Cape May. If you hit a NW wind on Delaware Bay, it can make you miserable there, too. Plan on seeing some nasty conditions, just about anywhere if you leave in mid-May. You may find some significant fog as well. You may have several days of glass calm if you are lucky!

This is a dangerous trip for an unskilled or novice boater, especially if you plan on making the trip alone. With some luck and some oversight in the company of a boater with experience, you can have a fantastic trip. I think that I would not do it alone if I were you. I would have the boat trucked. But if you are doing the trip with somebody experienced and trustworthy, and have 2 weeks available, I would say go for it. With a good eye for weather and time to take breaks when the weather is nasty, it will be a good trip.

It sounds like you have a new engine just nicely broken in. I'll assume that your engine will handle the trip without any problem at all, assuming it was installed correctly and cared for.

Scott T-Bird · May 12, 2021

BTW, when I say dangerous, I really mean that you will not know how you react to bad conditions. It isn't a dangerous trip to make in a Catalina 30. The boat will take care of you as long as it is in good condition. The boat will probably handle much more than you think it can or much more than you think is tolerable. It is a very comfortable boat, even in difficult conditions. The danger lies in your capability and tolerance in rough conditions. Inexperienced boaters may react badly in bad weather and jeopardize the boat by making bad decisions. But the boat itself is more than capable.

Rick486 · May 12, 2021

jbstuebner said:
I must relocate my boat a gift , Catilina 30, w/ factory diesel . I am going to sail it under power coast of Mass south to the annisquam river through the river then west into the intercostal to eventually the c and D canal. I have no wind sailing experience and very little boating experience!! Questions :
Is this doable under power?
How much fuel would it take can I make the Annsiquam on one tank?
How dangerous do you feel this is?
Catalina 30 owners especially for diesel mileage.

Your best, safest option is to have her hauled over the road to Maryland. With the experience you describe I would assess this as a high risk trip for you to make. I suggest you get quotes on the over the road haul, then estimate the cost to power her there as you describe. That will establish the cost to you either way. Then you can estimate whatever cost you might incur due to engine problems, fuel, electronics problems, and so forth. You say nothing about how she is equipped. Does she even have the basics needed for such a trip.

Scott T-Bird · May 12, 2021

dlochner said:
Welcome to the forum and to sailing. It is a great past time.

The short way from Newburyport, MA to the north entrance of the C&D Canal is about 400 miles with much of it off shore. Sailing straight through at 5 knots will take about at least 3 to 4 days of constant motoring/sailing.

Taking the coastal route, hoping along the shore will add a couple of hundred miles. It could be done nonstop. More realistically if you take the coastal route you can cover about 40 to 50 miles a day depending on tides and currents and weather. This will make it a 10 day to 2 week trip.

Either route is an ambitious trip for a new sailor. If you took the long slow route and stayed at marinas, you may find having it trucked is not that expensive. I'm not sure what marinas along the way charge, up here on Lake Ontario the rate is usually $2 a foot or more.

It cost $45 per night on moorings in Cuttyhunk & Block Island but there was plenty room in the anchorages for free. We stayed at a very nice marina in Branford for about $120, I think. The mooring in Port Washington was free (staying just 1 night) ... I think $45 if staying another night. We anchored in Sandy Hook. There are good anchorages at Barnegat Light, Brigantine (Atlantic City) and Cape May. There are also good marinas to stay at in A.C. and Cape May. You can anchor in Liberty Harbor (Caven Point, right next to the Statue in Jersey City or use the marina. I think there are plenty of great options all the way, without necessarily spending a lot. There are a couple of anchorages in the C & D canal.

jssailem · May 12, 2021

jbstuebner said:
I have no wind sailing experience and very little boating experience!! Questions :
Is this doable under power?

Welcome to the SBO Forum.
A Catalina is a good boat manufacture. The 30 is a boat that is popular and reasonably easy to learn to sail. The boats were designed to sail as their primary power source. An auxiliary engine was installed when sailing was not possible or feasible. So you are asking about power you mean using the auxiliary I am guessing. With "very little boating experience" you are attempting a 200 to 400 mile coastal journey that could tax even an experienced boaters skills. Doable? yes...

QUOTE="jbstuebner, post: 1697737, member: 156644"]
How much fuel would it take can I make the Annsiquam on one tank?
[/QUOTE]
Lets assume that the trip is only 200 nautical miles. Consuming 0.5 gal of diesel per hour. Being conservative and using 4.5 nm per hour speed, it will take you 45 hours to make the trip. This calculates out to about 23-24 gallons of diesel with no reserve. Since we generally look to cary a reserve lets call it 25 gallons. Not knowing your tank size the question can not be answered.

QUOTE="jbstuebner, post: 1697737, member: 156644"]
How dangerous do you feel this is?
[/QUOTE]
Now that you have the skills to begin to calculate the auxiliary fuel question, lets explore the "feeling of Danger" in such a trip.

At your identified skill level, I would say it is a dangerous trip during which events could spin out of control and you might find yourself in a world of hurt.

That said, through out the centuries men have gone down to the sea in small boats and ventured forth onto the waters. Those who survived had tales to share. Some are still seen in coastal bars, perhaps with a little premature grey hair, and will share that frightening night they spent at sea when they cried out to the heavens... Why hath though forsaken me?..... if you buy them a beer.

I suspect that you have no idea if you are susceptible to "Mal di Mare". Sea sickness. If you are and you discover this 20 miles out from the coastline you will wish you were dead rather than head back to shore, likely dive overboard and end it right there. That is just one of the demons that awaits.

It might be better if you can convince a couple of buddies to join you on this adventure. Especially if one of them has some real boating experience. (Name hime the Skipper and follow his directions to the letter).

You will still be able to tell the stories, of that big wave that appeared out of no where and nearly swallowed your boat and all aboard...

Good luck. Let us know how it goes... Just no mermaid stories...

jssailem · May 12, 2021

Sounds like your thinking about the issue. That is a good start. Note if you bring helpers (which I suggest would be a good idea) you become responsible for their safety. Selection becomes important. Finding crew with more knowledge than you would be a good idea. A competent sailor would know that it is your boat, but would suggest ideas that help both of you. If you choose a poor idea they would step in and let you know what is wrong and why. If the skipper decides to endanger the crew and the boat they would jump ship or mutiny and guide the ship to the nearest harbor where they would go ashore.

This is not a YouTube journey or a book learning experience. Mother Nature cares not your intentions. The sea is a cruel mistress and demands respect. Even when you think everything is fine all can be lost.

That said I am always in favor of cruising your ship home rather than trucking it.

So choose wisely.

Stu Jackson · May 12, 2021

jbstuebner said:
Tank is 20 Gallons and I was gonna bring two extra portable so an extra 10.

So 40 gallons, at 0.5 gph = 80 hours at 5 knots = 400 nm. You will never do an average of 5 knots in your boat, as good as it may be. Why? 'Cuz many of us have experience. My 1,650 mile trip from SF to BC in 2016 averaged 5 knots and my boat is bigger than yours, so you should figure 4 knots. 4X80 = only 320 nm.

I have a 23 gallon tank, I always figured it was only 20 gallons. You might choose to do the same.

How ya gonna refill the tank at sea when you're bouncing around. Learn about Super Siphon. Really.

What people are telling you is that given what you're telling us, you may be entering upon a manifestly unsafe voyage that is well beyond your capabilities.

I suggest you go to www.crusiersforum.com and do a search on Hell Gate. It will teach you a lot.

Do you have Eldridge? If you don't know what that is...

Look, we all wish you well, but from what you're saying, you're not ready for this. Staying 20 miles out may be the right thing in certain places. On my trip north we stayed 6 miles out, still an hour to get in to just the beginning of the bars.

Good luck. If you choose to go, safe journey.

PS And for some reason, being here on the west coast and all, I thought it was the C&D Canal. But whadda I know...

Scott T-Bird · May 12, 2021

jbstuebner said:
Tank is 20 Gallons and I was gonna bring two extra portable so an extra 10. My hope was to stay visibly close to shore. Not be 20 miles out. I have been out to see before just never the Captain. My plan was to try to get to the Annsiquamriver in the first day. Then the second day satay some utter river or bay till I hit Connecticut sound. Then sail a couple hours a day in the intercostal till I get to the Delaware, then the B and D canal.

You will easily make it from Newburyport to Annisquam in one day and you will barely tap your fuel supply. That first jump will only be a half day. I think you can count on running up to 3 full 8- hour days between fuel stops and you won't need 10 gallons in reserve. 5 gallons will be plenty. We never touched our reserve and you will probably find that you won't need to, either. It sounds like you are patient and willing to take short jumps for safety sake. That's a good idea. I'd feel much more comfortable about you taking shorter jumps, locating as many potential stopping points as can, and watching the weather carefully. Diesel engines are made to run all day long without any sweat. You will not be taxing your engine even in the slightest bit. That said, check your oil daily and listen carefully to the signs. The big one is making sure that you have that continuous flow of cooling water spitting out your exhaust. Be vigilant about watching that. It isn't normally anything that goes wrong, but if the flow of seawater out the exhaust is interrupted even briefly, you will be shut down and helpless until the impeller is changed or other problem solved. There is a distinctive sound to the exhaust if the water isn't mixed into it - pay attention and be aware of the sound that is normal - with water flowing thru! Most of us have been there. When you insure your boat, don't even hesitate about the tow insurance. Don't go without it! Even a short tow will cost you 4 figures in a heartbeat if you are not insured!

While you will spend a lot of time in exposed stretches of water, you will be able to limit your exposure with shorter hops because there are numerous places to get to shelter and you have very little need to be off shore very far. Your longest jumps across open water are going to be from Gloucester to Cape Cod Canal, Buzzard's Bay to Long Island Sound, and by far, the most challenging stretch is likely to be the New Jersey coastline, because there are few inlets that you will want to enter.

When you suggest that you will spend a few hours per day in the intercoastal, that doesn't quite make sense. The intercoastal doesn't start until Manasquan Inlet. It's a pretty good jump out in the Atlantic from Sandy Hook to Manasquan Inlet. It is a good inlet, but it is used mostly by power boats. If you enter the intercoastal there, you will have several bridges that will require opening and a very tight canal with a pretty tricky current. At least 4 bridges, I think. Then there are 2 more bridges in Barnegat Bay that you need to have opened to get from the north section of the bay to the south section of Barnegat Bay. You will need to know the bridge names so that you can call on VHF to have these 6 bridges opened for you.

Your option is to enter Barnegat Bay at Barnegat Inlet. The town is Barnegat Light

and there is a good anchorage there. You can follow the intercoastal from Barnegat Inlet to Atlantic City (Brigantine) or Absecon Inlet. All bridges are tall enough for you to go under (I think there would only be 2). I've done this trip and it is very pleasant as you approach A.C. What is your draft? You will have no problem if you have a wing keel (shallow draft). If the boat is a deep fin keel, you may be limited and will have to be very watchful of the depths in the marked channels. Barnegat Inlet has reputation for being a tough inlet. If you intend to use it, get some good, specific advise. Absecon Inlet has plenty of depth and you should have no worries. I'd be inclined to make 2 jumps on the Jersey Shore ... Sandy Hook to Barnegat Inlet - anchor inside and then go back out to jump from Barnegat Inlet to Cape May in a long day. If you are inclined to do this segment in 3 days, then Sandy Hook to Barnegat Inlet outside, Barnegat Bay to Brigantine Bay (anchorage) on the 2nd day using the intercoastal, then Absecon Inlet to Cape May on the 3rd day outside.

I don't think you can clear under some of the fixed bridges in the intercoastal from Ocean City, New Jersey to Cape May. For that reason, I think you only have one option and that is to go out into the Atlantic from A.C. to Cape May. Enter at the Cape May canal and you will find a very secure anchorage and/or a very comfortable marina. That is where you will want to fuel up and prepare for a day trip up the Delaware Bay and C-D canal. You won't want to stop until you get inside the canal and you won't want to be motoring against an opposing tide, so you will be choosing your window based on the wind and the tide. Once you make it to the C-D canal, you are virtually home free!

dlochner · May 12, 2021

Stu Jackson said:
PS And for some reason, being here on the west coast and all, I thought it was the C&D Canal. But whadda I know...

Come on, Stu, give his fingers a break. He got right in the first post.

jbstuebner said:
Then sail a couple hours a day in the intercostal till I get to the Delaware, then the B and D canal.

@jbstuebner that you are asking questions is a good sign, it shows that your eyes are open. So take the concerns and caveats expressed here as our effort to ensure they are wide open.

Understand that staying close to shore can be problematic. First it will significantly increase the distance travelled. Second, there will be more boat traffic and obstacles (rocks, shoals, islands, etc). Further away from shore is often safer than close to shore.

There is no protected intercostal waterway north of Virgina. There is protected waters behind the barrier beaches in NJ, but these waters are pretty shallow and prone to shoaling. This presents navigation concerns. We have several Barnegat Bay sailors here who can attest to that. (and as I write this one of them is sharing his thoughts.)

The south shore of Long Island is not an option. There are a few inlets leading to channels behind he barrier beaches however the inlets are notorious for currents and shoaling. There are also issues with bridge clearances on the highways out to the islands as well as shoal and shallow areas.

At either end of LI Sound there are narrow areas where tidal currents can get nasty. Timing them is crucial to a safe passage.

The long and the short is this is a doable trip, many people do it every year, I'll be doing it next fall. It will be more pleasant if you sail more and motor less. And with your self-reported skill level and experience it would be a good idea to find some more experienced crew.

Catilina 30 Merrimack River Mass to B and O canal

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SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John

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SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John

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