I had my boat hauled for a bottom paint job. There is a small "Catalina Smile" - a slight crack where the keel meets the hull. The yard is supposed to have filled this, but you can still see the crack - just slightly. Is it supposed to be visible after the bottom is painted? Thanks.
Catalina Smile Repair
- Thread starter John
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Keel
No. IMHO the crack is an indication that the stub joint seal may be compromised. Our 1991 model boat keel stub joint has no evidence of a smile or separation. You can try to fill in the crack from the outside, then paint over it, but this is a temporary measure and the yard should know this. There are a number of factors involved with properly seating and securing the keel to the stub. If it were my boat I would obtain a marine surveyor's report with recommendations.
Terry Cox
No. IMHO the crack is an indication that the stub joint seal may be compromised. Our 1991 model boat keel stub joint has no evidence of a smile or separation. You can try to fill in the crack from the outside, then paint over it, but this is a temporary measure and the yard should know this. There are a number of factors involved with properly seating and securing the keel to the stub. If it were my boat I would obtain a marine surveyor's report with recommendations.
Terry Cox
Many surveyors will tell you it's nothing, and to fill it with 5200 and then do it again next year. I couldn't live with that. But my catalina has a plywood stub so I really have to be careful about water intrusion.
I used a wire wheel and ground away all the fairing compound. I then used epoxy and roving cloth until I added 1" to the front and back of the keel and about 1/2" on the sides. This was not a long procedure. 2 days of messing around with it.
Main Sail did a similar procedure on his boat over the winter. I think he used a type of fiberglass that is stronger in one direction than the other. I think it's called uni-axial.
He faired his after he was finished laying in the glass. I didn't fair mine at all. I got it as close as I could, brushed on a thin layer of epoxy and put bottom paint on it. When I pull it a couple of years from now I want to know what I am dealing with. If I faired it again and that cracked I would be back where I started; not really knowing what is cracking.
I used a wire wheel and ground away all the fairing compound. I then used epoxy and roving cloth until I added 1" to the front and back of the keel and about 1/2" on the sides. This was not a long procedure. 2 days of messing around with it.
Main Sail did a similar procedure on his boat over the winter. I think he used a type of fiberglass that is stronger in one direction than the other. I think it's called uni-axial.
He faired his after he was finished laying in the glass. I didn't fair mine at all. I got it as close as I could, brushed on a thin layer of epoxy and put bottom paint on it. When I pull it a couple of years from now I want to know what I am dealing with. If I faired it again and that cracked I would be back where I started; not really knowing what is cracking.
The crack, as you know, is where the fiberglass meets the lead or cast iron, which are two different materials. Bad scenarios are loose keel bolts. If the keel bolts are tight and no water is coming into the bilge from below, then you don't have a lot of concerns. When the manufacture puts on a keel, often the shape of the keel does not match up perfectly with the shape of the hull (usually a shoe which also forms the bilge). So, an epoxy fairing compound is trawled in to smoothen the joint up. If there is fiberglass added on top of that, then that give the joint a finish that will not produce a crack. If only fairing compound is used, then a crack often will appear because of the minute movement of the two materials. The strength of the keel to the hull is in the bolting process and not by fiberglassing so much on the outside. In other words, if the keel bolts are not tight and secure, the fiberglass on the outside cannot be expected to do the work alone. Walk about a boat yard and you will see many boats with this smile. It is not something to loose sleep over unless there is another problem.
John - Do some research on the fix on the Catalina group sites. I am not sure how old your boat is but as scott mentioned - Catalina until the mid-80"s (I think) used plywood core in the hull section that supported the keel. The fix includes removal of the plywood (with a chisel) and then to rebuild the section with fiberglass. Its a messy job but fixable on the hard - Catalina will give you direction.
You can go the easy route here but be careful. If there is no signs of rust weeping from the crack - you can grind and fill the crack with 4200 or similar and your set for the year. On every haul though - it will separate and you should repeat the process.
Its what I do on my boat...I have a very slight separation at the leading edge. No rust.
Search the forums here - MainSail has some great advice on the topic.
- Rob
You can go the easy route here but be careful. If there is no signs of rust weeping from the crack - you can grind and fill the crack with 4200 or similar and your set for the year. On every haul though - it will separate and you should repeat the process.
Its what I do on my boat...I have a very slight separation at the leading edge. No rust.
Search the forums here - MainSail has some great advice on the topic.
- Rob
I just got off the phone with the yard. I asked them about filling the crack. They said that the way to go would be to grind it down, glass it in, but this one is so small that it really isn't worth it. Obviously, they have an interest in doing all the work that has to be done, so it seems to me that I can trust their judgement on this.
By the way, in response to Rob - our boat is a '98, so I think it's just lead - no plywood.
By the way, in response to Rob - our boat is a '98, so I think it's just lead - no plywood.
Keel
Please take Rob's advice. You might be wise to contact Catalina about the smile. Perhaps the keel is solid lead, but the stub (hull section) that Rob refers is either solid FRP or FRP over some other material such as plywood, unlikely lead.
Does the yard rep advise torquing the keel bolts? What do they say about the stub seal? To me the crack is an indication that whatever sealant was used to seat the keel to the stub has been broken and to fill in the crack from the outside and then glass over the repair is a temporary fix at best.
It is your boat, but it appears to me the yard rep's recommendation on this matter leaves more questions than answers, FWIW.
Terry Cox
Please take Rob's advice. You might be wise to contact Catalina about the smile. Perhaps the keel is solid lead, but the stub (hull section) that Rob refers is either solid FRP or FRP over some other material such as plywood, unlikely lead.
Does the yard rep advise torquing the keel bolts? What do they say about the stub seal? To me the crack is an indication that whatever sealant was used to seat the keel to the stub has been broken and to fill in the crack from the outside and then glass over the repair is a temporary fix at best.
It is your boat, but it appears to me the yard rep's recommendation on this matter leaves more questions than answers, FWIW.
Terry Cox
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