Why is it said that Catalina is better then the Hunter boat? Who sells more? Which performs better?
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It depends who you talk to
Catalina owners will say that Catalinas are the best. Hunter owners will say that Hunters are the best. Both are good boats. Since I own a Hunter... Hunters are the best. Bill
Catalina owners will say that Catalinas are the best. Hunter owners will say that Hunters are the best. Both are good boats. Since I own a Hunter... Hunters are the best. Bill
Opinions
I've owned both and it's my impression that overall Hunters perform better but Catalinas retain better resale value. Hunter is more innovative. Some of their stuff works and some stuff disappears a few years later. Production changes by Hunter are generally made to reduce production cost rather than improve the final product. Catalina are more traditional and after owning both I prefer the Catalina over the Hunter for coastal cruising. I wouldn't take either of them too far off shore. If that pisses anyone off GET OVER IT
I've owned both and it's my impression that overall Hunters perform better but Catalinas retain better resale value. Hunter is more innovative. Some of their stuff works and some stuff disappears a few years later. Production changes by Hunter are generally made to reduce production cost rather than improve the final product. Catalina are more traditional and after owning both I prefer the Catalina over the Hunter for coastal cruising. I wouldn't take either of them too far off shore. If that pisses anyone off GET OVER IT
Boatshow
in Annapolis draws me to the Hunter and Catalina every year. If you just look at the two boats, it seems that Catalina is out in front. I have a Catalina 320 and like it.
in Annapolis draws me to the Hunter and Catalina every year. If you just look at the two boats, it seems that Catalina is out in front. I have a Catalina 320 and like it.
Had'em all
Started with a Catalina 25, moved to Beneteau 32s5, moved to Hunter 380 and except for a few nuances proprietary of each brand they all are basically the same boat value. For coastal sailing, I would go with the one that offers the best deal with the installed equipment you are looking for. Sail them both and see which you are more comfortable. I personally would feel comfortable picking a weather window and running up and down the coast on all 3.
Started with a Catalina 25, moved to Beneteau 32s5, moved to Hunter 380 and except for a few nuances proprietary of each brand they all are basically the same boat value. For coastal sailing, I would go with the one that offers the best deal with the installed equipment you are looking for. Sail them both and see which you are more comfortable. I personally would feel comfortable picking a weather window and running up and down the coast on all 3.
Unfortunately I agree
with Daryl, Catalina has historically been more traditional and somewhat quality-oriented while Hunter likes new owners, good prices and innovative designs. Neither would be my choice for offshore. But we all share this site and try to be PC, and as Chris said there is less and less difference these days just like most car makers are forced to converge on quality issues or perish. Apparently Daryl feels a little defensive about an opinion bound to be unpopular.
with Daryl, Catalina has historically been more traditional and somewhat quality-oriented while Hunter likes new owners, good prices and innovative designs. Neither would be my choice for offshore. But we all share this site and try to be PC, and as Chris said there is less and less difference these days just like most car makers are forced to converge on quality issues or perish. Apparently Daryl feels a little defensive about an opinion bound to be unpopular.
There is, however,
the recent thread about not being able to sail downwind on a Hunter because of the swept back spreaders. That is a very big difference. The only Catalina I recall with swept back spreaders is the C42, and they don't come back as much as the B&R rig. Hey, for their use, they are pretty much the same, but I agree about the "traditional," although with a different meaning: Catalina's new ad in Sail magazine says it all, they listen to input and make modifications, so years later you have basically the same boats with improvements. Now, one could argue "You're getting an old boat." But most of the boat is pretty much the same anyway: it floats, it goes. If it's a dog, no one would buy it. Hunter changes (looks, designers, interiors, etc.), and there's nothing wrong with that, but what didn't work and why? I guess it's because they do, as stated above, want to look different every year to attract a different kind of buyer. Both are just fine, make your choice on looks and value, you can't go wrong. Stu
the recent thread about not being able to sail downwind on a Hunter because of the swept back spreaders. That is a very big difference. The only Catalina I recall with swept back spreaders is the C42, and they don't come back as much as the B&R rig. Hey, for their use, they are pretty much the same, but I agree about the "traditional," although with a different meaning: Catalina's new ad in Sail magazine says it all, they listen to input and make modifications, so years later you have basically the same boats with improvements. Now, one could argue "You're getting an old boat." But most of the boat is pretty much the same anyway: it floats, it goes. If it's a dog, no one would buy it. Hunter changes (looks, designers, interiors, etc.), and there's nothing wrong with that, but what didn't work and why? I guess it's because they do, as stated above, want to look different every year to attract a different kind of buyer. Both are just fine, make your choice on looks and value, you can't go wrong. Stu
What is good value for offshore crusing?
What smaller boat is a good value for blue water? Like well under $10k.
What smaller boat is a good value for blue water? Like well under $10k.
blue water
i do not have a problem with anyone's opinion here. i would like to point out that in my opinion, there is no such thing as a blue water boat....only blue water sailors. captain bligh sailed an open 21 footer with 19 men aboard for over 3500 miles in the open pacific ocean. he charted the great barrier reef and everything else on the way to timor in the dutch east indies. not only did he bring boat and crew safely to port, but the charts he made were not superceded in accuraccy until satelite technology was available. he would loved to have had a catalina, hunter, mcgreggor, beneteau...etc. no offense rt
i do not have a problem with anyone's opinion here. i would like to point out that in my opinion, there is no such thing as a blue water boat....only blue water sailors. captain bligh sailed an open 21 footer with 19 men aboard for over 3500 miles in the open pacific ocean. he charted the great barrier reef and everything else on the way to timor in the dutch east indies. not only did he bring boat and crew safely to port, but the charts he made were not superceded in accuraccy until satelite technology was available. he would loved to have had a catalina, hunter, mcgreggor, beneteau...etc. no offense rt
is a Chevy better
then a Ford or a Ford better then a Chevy? They both do the same basic thing.These are owner choices that may or may not be based on fact and real info or on how the owner feels and what is important to them.Beware this is a very subjective question,both manufactures have pros and cons both have good boat and some not so good boats.The real answer here is you and what work best for you.
then a Ford or a Ford better then a Chevy? They both do the same basic thing.These are owner choices that may or may not be based on fact and real info or on how the owner feels and what is important to them.Beware this is a very subjective question,both manufactures have pros and cons both have good boat and some not so good boats.The real answer here is you and what work best for you.
what robert taylor said!
is the truth! although I do prefer Fords and Catalinas, it's the driver or the sailors that makes the deal!
is the truth! although I do prefer Fords and Catalinas, it's the driver or the sailors that makes the deal!
According to your theory...
there were alot of lousy sailors in that Fastnet race, and the Tasmanian thing where men descibed it as a crapshoot which boats got smashed by breaking mountains of water? That when a boat falls off a wave and lands on its side, there won't be any difference between a Hunter and a Pacific Seacraft or a Westsail? One thumbnail definition of a bluewater boat is that when you can't take care of the boat any further, you go below and it takes care of you. Its like that Westsail in the book Perfect Storm that got abandoned, the people had enough but the boat survived on its own. (Actually the owner didn't want to leave it.) I've seen a reproduction of a frigate's longboat at the Wooden Boat Festival in Nova Scotia. (An oxen team dragged it into the water.) To say it was built like a tank would not do justice to either one. And Bligh wasn't just skilled, he was desparate and lucky too. Baring bad weather and provisions, you could probably take anything across an ocean, its often pretty calm out there. Can you predict the weather over many months? Its not exactly like cars where anything that rolls will eventually get you there. Your advice to take any production boat (even a trailer boat like Macs, and its spelled MacGregor) and head out into the ocean believing that the only difference is in your skill to finesse everything you meet may be your opinion. You are right, its only your opinion.
there were alot of lousy sailors in that Fastnet race, and the Tasmanian thing where men descibed it as a crapshoot which boats got smashed by breaking mountains of water? That when a boat falls off a wave and lands on its side, there won't be any difference between a Hunter and a Pacific Seacraft or a Westsail? One thumbnail definition of a bluewater boat is that when you can't take care of the boat any further, you go below and it takes care of you. Its like that Westsail in the book Perfect Storm that got abandoned, the people had enough but the boat survived on its own. (Actually the owner didn't want to leave it.) I've seen a reproduction of a frigate's longboat at the Wooden Boat Festival in Nova Scotia. (An oxen team dragged it into the water.) To say it was built like a tank would not do justice to either one. And Bligh wasn't just skilled, he was desparate and lucky too. Baring bad weather and provisions, you could probably take anything across an ocean, its often pretty calm out there. Can you predict the weather over many months? Its not exactly like cars where anything that rolls will eventually get you there. Your advice to take any production boat (even a trailer boat like Macs, and its spelled MacGregor) and head out into the ocean believing that the only difference is in your skill to finesse everything you meet may be your opinion. You are right, its only your opinion.
Owned Both
Funny you should ask about the two boats. I owned a Catalina 25 and a Hunter 25.5 (both 1984 models). Both boats were used on a Lake and both used for weekend use. I cannot tell you one out performed another in varying winds. As medium displacement hulls such as these were, they heeled quickly to weather and had heavy weather helm. Both were exciting to sail. On the other hand though, I always felt that Catalina was finished a bit better in the interiors then the Hunter's and that applies today to my Catalina 30 when compared to the Hunter 31 we were once seriously looking at. The concensus on your skills as a sailor outweighing the quality of your vessel holds true with me. If you have the talent, experience and maybe enough scrot to take a long oceanic passage in a Compac 16 or Westwight Potter 15, then you certainly get my vote. The Hunter or Catalina will do just fine in a seaway or will stay steady hove-to if you as a sailor can master your ship. Their are dozens of accounts of Catalina and Hunter owners who have made long passages. However, if you can afford to fork out two to three times the cost of a Hunter or Catalina for a more stout vessel with reputable blue water capabilties (Hinckley, Lord Nelson, Valiant, Swann, Westsail, etc,), then I congradulate you. Good luck. Bob
Funny you should ask about the two boats. I owned a Catalina 25 and a Hunter 25.5 (both 1984 models). Both boats were used on a Lake and both used for weekend use. I cannot tell you one out performed another in varying winds. As medium displacement hulls such as these were, they heeled quickly to weather and had heavy weather helm. Both were exciting to sail. On the other hand though, I always felt that Catalina was finished a bit better in the interiors then the Hunter's and that applies today to my Catalina 30 when compared to the Hunter 31 we were once seriously looking at. The concensus on your skills as a sailor outweighing the quality of your vessel holds true with me. If you have the talent, experience and maybe enough scrot to take a long oceanic passage in a Compac 16 or Westwight Potter 15, then you certainly get my vote. The Hunter or Catalina will do just fine in a seaway or will stay steady hove-to if you as a sailor can master your ship. Their are dozens of accounts of Catalina and Hunter owners who have made long passages. However, if you can afford to fork out two to three times the cost of a Hunter or Catalina for a more stout vessel with reputable blue water capabilties (Hinckley, Lord Nelson, Valiant, Swann, Westsail, etc,), then I congradulate you. Good luck. Bob
End of puff
Its a travesty that several dozen earnest builders like Cape Dory, Cal, etc., who went to extra expense to give you your moneys worth, got trashed by the luxury tax of the 70's, while Hunter survived by cranking out cute cheap little daysailers that retain little value today.
Its a travesty that several dozen earnest builders like Cape Dory, Cal, etc., who went to extra expense to give you your moneys worth, got trashed by the luxury tax of the 70's, while Hunter survived by cranking out cute cheap little daysailers that retain little value today.
I love these strings
where we discuss which (fill in the blank) is better. IMHO, Mr. Dawson makes the best point when he says that while the skill of a sailor is important, the actual quality of the boat he sails does make a difference in determining its seaworthiness. As a practical matter, whenever a sailor asks which boat is better for offshore sailing, he probably is not in that category of sailors who are confident enough in their skills to "know" that the make or model of boat is immaterial to its seaworthiness. It seems to me that the most useful advice to the sailor who asks the question is to give them a list of boats that are designed to be blue water cruisers. Getting back to the original question, what is the best value to be had in blue water cruising boats? I would check back issues of Sailing magazine's Used Boat Notebook column. Every month the magazine reviews an older model boat. They have identified some great old cruising boats that have stood the test of time and can be had for a fraction of the price of a new Catalina or Hunter. Of course, if you want a new boat, I don't think you can beat the value from one of the large manufacturers (Catalina, Hunter, Beneteau). As others have said, the differences in quality and performance are not big; it really comes down to looks, features and feel.
where we discuss which (fill in the blank) is better. IMHO, Mr. Dawson makes the best point when he says that while the skill of a sailor is important, the actual quality of the boat he sails does make a difference in determining its seaworthiness. As a practical matter, whenever a sailor asks which boat is better for offshore sailing, he probably is not in that category of sailors who are confident enough in their skills to "know" that the make or model of boat is immaterial to its seaworthiness. It seems to me that the most useful advice to the sailor who asks the question is to give them a list of boats that are designed to be blue water cruisers. Getting back to the original question, what is the best value to be had in blue water cruising boats? I would check back issues of Sailing magazine's Used Boat Notebook column. Every month the magazine reviews an older model boat. They have identified some great old cruising boats that have stood the test of time and can be had for a fraction of the price of a new Catalina or Hunter. Of course, if you want a new boat, I don't think you can beat the value from one of the large manufacturers (Catalina, Hunter, Beneteau). As others have said, the differences in quality and performance are not big; it really comes down to looks, features and feel.
and also
there were several boats in the fastnet race that survived with no people aboard. i am not suggesting that anyone take off to the high seas in an unfit boat. i think you would agree that no matter where you go around the world, you will see every kind of production boat that was sailed there. i wonder if the racers had a drogue? i wonder if they considered altering course to avoid the storm? i wasn't there and will not judge them. it was a terrible tragedy that i still think about often. as far as the bounty's launch, being destroyed was not yhe issue....the issue was that bligh new how to take heavy waves....sinking was his biggest danger. the same skills for taking big waves will also help keep your boat from breaking up. anything can be broken up by the sea. again, only my opinion. rt
there were several boats in the fastnet race that survived with no people aboard. i am not suggesting that anyone take off to the high seas in an unfit boat. i think you would agree that no matter where you go around the world, you will see every kind of production boat that was sailed there. i wonder if the racers had a drogue? i wonder if they considered altering course to avoid the storm? i wasn't there and will not judge them. it was a terrible tragedy that i still think about often. as far as the bounty's launch, being destroyed was not yhe issue....the issue was that bligh new how to take heavy waves....sinking was his biggest danger. the same skills for taking big waves will also help keep your boat from breaking up. anything can be broken up by the sea. again, only my opinion. rt
Capability research
I began my search for the vessel I have now after performing some research to determine fit and function for my personal sailing intentions. While I looked at both Hunters and Catalinas in the 34'-36' range, I chose the Legend 35.5 based on some substancial offshore performance history. Ten of these vessels were raced in the 1991 Bermuda Gold Cup Match Racing Championship as well as the World Match Racing Championship, The Hunter 35.5s were sailed to and from Bermuda from the east coast. They performed fairly well under tropical storm force (>55 knots) conditions. Race officials noted 35.5 performance was similar to the J24's turning very quickly in the dial up prior to the start of the race. A local (San Francisco) Tradewinds (ASA) instructor has sailed his Hunter 35.5 from SF bay to Hawaii in 4 Pacific Cup races. Another SF based 35.5 held a single-handed record in a annual Single Handed Farallones Race sponcored by the Singlehanded Sailing Society. I have read several logs from 35.5 skippers with offshore passage accounts including some pretty foul weather encounters. While I'm confident that there are similar stories from cruises aboard Catalina 34s & 36s, the sail plan, deck layout and condition of my particular boat triggered my particular purchasing decision. Next vessel may very well be a Catalina. I hear the 400 has quite a pedigreed.
I began my search for the vessel I have now after performing some research to determine fit and function for my personal sailing intentions. While I looked at both Hunters and Catalinas in the 34'-36' range, I chose the Legend 35.5 based on some substancial offshore performance history. Ten of these vessels were raced in the 1991 Bermuda Gold Cup Match Racing Championship as well as the World Match Racing Championship, The Hunter 35.5s were sailed to and from Bermuda from the east coast. They performed fairly well under tropical storm force (>55 knots) conditions. Race officials noted 35.5 performance was similar to the J24's turning very quickly in the dial up prior to the start of the race. A local (San Francisco) Tradewinds (ASA) instructor has sailed his Hunter 35.5 from SF bay to Hawaii in 4 Pacific Cup races. Another SF based 35.5 held a single-handed record in a annual Single Handed Farallones Race sponcored by the Singlehanded Sailing Society. I have read several logs from 35.5 skippers with offshore passage accounts including some pretty foul weather encounters. While I'm confident that there are similar stories from cruises aboard Catalina 34s & 36s, the sail plan, deck layout and condition of my particular boat triggered my particular purchasing decision. Next vessel may very well be a Catalina. I hear the 400 has quite a pedigreed.
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