Catalina 30 fin keel flat sheltered mud beach tidal layover/careening safe?

[bradteed]

My big question:
Can I "safely" tidal lay over my "still new to me" 1984 Catalina 30 fin keel on a flat soft muddy sheltered Puget Sound bay beach? Will it just lay over nicely with the outgoing tide with weight to one side at first to help it lay over to the side I want? Or can it get crazy and fall back on rudder somehow, or nose forward somehow, or tidal water make it over the side into the cockpit, etc.? I really only ask because I've never tidal laid a fin keel over quite yet, but a full keel 24 foot boat I have laid over several times for many years, but that was only a 4 foot draft and full keel. This common catalina 30 is a 5 1/2 foot draft fin keel, so I'm looking for anyone who has done this on relatively flat mud beach (or do I possibly need to use a steep beach and lay it toward shore of course?... I'm hoping not necessary, as I'd rather use my own beachfront.) I'm loving this boat and don't want to screw up my first tidal inspection/zincs. I have scuba gear I use often for maintenance, but this sheltered tidal beaching has so many advantages, if safe to do with this boat. I'm thinking/hoping the designers have to make these safe to lay over softly and rise back up with the tide, right? Of course I'll make the boat light and empty my holding tanks, etc. before laying over. My beach is nearly flat at the layover area, maybe 5 degree slope. Thanks in advance for any insight on this.

Background:
For 30 years, as a grade school kid through adult, I used to lay over my 1970'ish Columbia Special 24' , 4 foot draft full keel on our calm and nearly flat Puget Sound mud bay bottom whenever I wanted for cleaning or maintenance, or reaching the masthead from our dock, no problem ever. The incoming tide never came close to pouring into the boat before it would float, rudder was at back of keel and full length so it always hit but never sustained damage. The muddy bottom is such that you sink a foot into it when walking barefoot, so it is naturally easy on boat hulls, and the hulls don't sink in, just the keel sinks in to the mud a few inches typically as it settles to lay over. I prefer to use the natural beach whenever possible instead of using marina lifts. I don't want to use a dock tidal grid if I don't have to.

 

[Anonymous 121765]

Brad,
If you are doing this to save $$, wow, maybe what you want is an RV & not a boat.
There are proper methods & there are shortcut methods, some of which end in failure. You need to decide. It's not a day sailor but rather an investment.

For quick zinc changeouts and/or bottom cleaning yea, this can work.

Would I do this with my boat.....NO. What if there are rocks & such that can mar/puncture the hull plus, your foundation is after all, in mud. Mud moves & if so, so may your boat. Here on Florida's left coast, sand makes for a better median to support a boat for a temporary layover.

Maybe you guys do it differently in your area & if so, I guess it just comes down to preference.

If' it's mainly about costs, remember the RV.

CR

 

[bradteed]

Thank you for the insight on this. Not about costs, but I admit it is about convenience. I grew up on the waterfront, doing this often with 24 foot boat, and am just checking. I am a bit surprised at how rare careening seems to be, at least on the forums... as I fly over the puget sound and see some people doing it with similar size boats, but I don't usually have floats on the plane so I don't stop to take a closer look or ask how it was going. I have class A and truck camper RV's, airplanes, etc. so I'm covered in that regard, just trying to do the right thing for my particular situation and culture of careening or at least private dock homemade tidal grid being very normal growing up around here.

 

[Anonymous 121765]

BR,

I hear ya pal. That being said, anchored in 9 feet of water with decent vis, this was how I did my bottom & zinc changeouts for years. I've been a diver/spear fisherman for over 25 years so this was my preferred method until I started using a scuba clean diver for $45.00/mo. I find jumping under your boat is alot less work stress that laying your girl over. Not your woman, I'm referring to your boat.

Besides using scuba gear, you can do both sides without turning the boat around.

If you use compressed air/tank, just get a long hose so you can keep the tank in the cockpit, this will make it all go easy. I was able to buy the hose & hose clamped both the tank & regulator fittings.

I just never wanted to set my hull in mud pal, good luck in your decision making.

CR

 

[bradteed]

Thanks Captnron, so far I'm realizing that careening these is considered pretty taboo in owner circles. Per your advice, I'm going to plan on getting more regular dive time under the boat for cleaning and zincs and prop work as needed. Thanks for the long hose tip, that sounds like the way to go.

(It would be nice to know though, from anyone who has careened these, if I ever screw up and get caught on a sandbar on an outgoing tide, and I dive under to make sure it is soft bottom to lay over on, if I can safely just wait it out and let it lay over and come back up on its own without water pouring in.)

 

[Anonymous 121765]

BR,

You're making the better choice pal. For me, I have alot of dive gear parts to spare with the 50 foot hose if I want to go below.

I'm sure others lay over but, you will need to talk to them. On the bright side, when I went under to clean my boat, I had to lug equip., hookup & then wash & lug my gear afterwards. After several years, it just wasn't worth the effort pal. Although at times, I throw on my mask & fins to check up on my cleaning guy. He knows this & it keeps him honest.

CR

 

[Anonymous 121765]

BR,

On a side note, I was in Seattle a few times on projects at SeaTac airport.
There was an America's Cup sailboat at the docks for charter, I can't recall the name.
I talked with the skipper one Saturday. I had my USCG 100T ticket w/Aux. sail on me.

He had a charter for Sunday with 4 folks & I offered to crew for him.
About 2 hours out, he asked If I would take the helm so he could take a 30 minute nap.

There I was man, skippering an America's Cup boat. How KOOL was that?
Small world huh?

PS: That's a sweet boat, you should look into putting your Profile Page together on this site.

CR

 

[bradteed]

Capnron,

That is awesome! Very cool. Great story, and right in my back yard of course, since I often tack across to Seattle just to head north or south in the sound around here (and I walk on/across the 5:25am ferry to be just another downtown working schlep on many weekdays.) I love the "small world" marine and aviation experiences (and scuba for that matter). I can't believe how often I get to run across people in different situations from these groups.

 

[Anonymous 121765]

Br,

Life's good eh? Another memory I have was in 2009 & flying back from Seattle, the pilot took off north & told the passengers to look out the port side as he approached & then circled Mt. St. Helens, the blown out side first. He then flew close to the snow cap on Mount Rainier. Another KOOL moment.

And, Seattle also invented Grunge music........not to bad. Is it also true they say that Seattle people do not die of old age, they die of rust? Florida folks do.

CR

 

[bradteed]

Yes, the rust thing is true in my experience for Seattle. I remember like yesterday working long days-into-nights downtown when grunge rockers Nirvana were playing in clubs around Seattle and were up and coming, watched them go huge, and I was commuting across the sound in Summers using my 1977 sea-ray open bow ski boat (and a motorcycle suit to keep suit dry). My kids and I then, rebuilt that ski boat completely in 2005, glassed in a new floor, built new seats, new upholstery on our sewing machine, and we use it for skiing and fishing still today! Mt St. Helens story is cool... in the late 80's I flew down into the open edge of the slightly steaming crater in a small plane with a friend, and we hit some heat turbulence in there turning around to go back out and over the headset she said "it would sure suck to go down here..."... I laughed at how true that was, and that I was being just a little crazy at the time. ;-)

 

[Stu Jackson]

We were coming in from Heathrow on an early morning a few years ago and the pilot took us over the peaks & holes you fellas just mentioned. Way cool.

In addition to my reply to you over on cruisersforum, I can't stress enough the LEGS I mentioned if you choose to do this. Fore & aft is necessary, but so is sideways, regardless of, or in addition to, that trick about lines brought over, which is only typically used when you're wharfing side to a wall or high dock.

I believe that if your boat went over enough to start worrying about water coming into the cockpit, then the cabin, you're over too damn far to begin with. The trick is to keep her upright, not sideways.

 

[centerline]

I've never careened a vessel myself, but ive read a lot about it in the event that someday I might have to.
the way your deep draft keel is designed, your boat really is not a candidate for this as a planned maneuver. the fin keel is too narrow (front to rear), and the rake of it doesnt allow for very good load distribution within the hull.... it may settle forward, or aft in which case it could damage the rudder very easily...
if it was the shallow draft keel, it could be done without too much worry.

shallow keels that are wide enough and stout enough to support/balance the boat on them are the best for careening... the more odd shaped, narrower and longer/deeper the keel is, the worse it is when touching the ground, planned or not.

 

[jrowan]

In Ireland we call this drying out a hull. Careening takes on a very negative image in my mind. In Europe it is common to have tidal changes in excess of 10 feet, so it is a fact of life to deal with the hull drying out on a daily basis. Bu this is why twin keel boats, like the English Westerly are popular, but add a lot of wetted surface for increase drag. But the drying out your are talking about is best left to shallow draft, long, full keel boats, which have directly attached barn style rudders. The C-30 has too much draft with its long keel. The longer the keel, the more the boat is cantilevered over by the depth of the keel. The result is the cabin will likely flood, before the hull starts to float back to an upright position. Not to mention, you have a nicely painted blue hull there, and that pretty blue paint is going to get scratched to hell from the grit of sand & debris from the hull rubbing back & forth. Plus the C-30 has a vey exposed rudder, that is not built in a very robust manner & is apt to be damaged at the rudder tube if full hull weight is placed against it. Don't risk it. This is exactly what sailors of fin keel boats try their best to avoid, for these very reasons.