Catalina 27 Upwind Performance

[Ajay73]

I have a 1980 C27 with the standard fin keel. Just this past week I was able to get out sailing it for the first time (been doing a lot of work in restoration). I have a 130 for the head sail which came with the boat. I would say it's in pretty decent shape. I bought a new main. I was out in probably a 10 knot breeze. I was kind of dissapointed in the upwind performance. I don't think I had the jib sheeted in all the way(didn't use a winch handle) but had it in pretty tight. I'd like to think I could sail through 90 degrees but I was way off that.

What's your experience with your C27 in upwind sailing? Thanks.

 

[Joe]

A 32 year old genoa might be one area of improvent, if not a new sail then perhaps a sailmaker's opinion on re cutting and re furbishing. The recent discussion on barber haulng to narrow the sheeting angle upwind could also be part of the discussion.

 

[Ajay73]

A 32 year old genoa might be one area of improvent, if not a new sail then perhaps a sailmaker's opinion on re cutting and re furbishing. The recent discussion on barber haulng to narrow the sheeting angle upwind could also be part of the discussion.

Not sure how old but it's not original with the boat. I got five sails with the boat, 4 head and one main.

Do you feel your C27 points well? If so did you have make a lot of modifications (like barberhauls) to get improved upwind sailing?

 

[Stu Jackson]

What 90 degrees?

 

[jrowan]

There are so many variables dependent on good upwind performance. I would suggest that you find an experienced sailor to go out with you & watch how YOU ar sailing & give you pointers before spending money on new, expensive sails. New sails definitely won't hurt performance, they can only imrove it. But perhaps it's your knowledge base that can also be improved, which is much more cost effective! When close hauled you should have your main hauled in tightly, with the boom as close to the center line of the boat as possible, depending on wind conditions. The jib needs to be hauled in of course, but should make a pocket between the sails to create good airflow & lift. It takes experience to trim a sail well. The more you sail the more you will be looking at the angle of attack, center of effort, sailing the sails flatter, etc. But simple tell tales of yarn attached to the sails will tell you so much about whether you are sheeted in at the corect angles. Invest in a new set of tape-on tell tales for the jib & main for less then 20 bucks will be very beneficial to your sailhandling & performance. Also, an apparent wind indicator mounted a top the mast is a must for knowing your relative position to the wind. Even Newport tells tied to the outer shrouds will tell you the wind direction without having to climb the mast. I find that there are easier to view sometimes, then sticking my neck out to view the mast from around our bimini. These are small investments with great returns.

 

[caguy]

No problem pointing here, and I have a shoal draft keel.

 

[Joe]

Not sure how old but it's not original with the boat. I got five sails with the boat, 4 head and one main.

Do you feel your C27 points well? If so did you have make a lot of modifications (like barberhauls) to get improved upwind sailing?

I think my boat points well enough...... I can get 90 degrees tack to tack with my blade (110% working jib) but not with the much older 140 decksweeping genoa. It's pretty much had it's day, I will use it when I have crew and don't want to sail close hauled.

Make sure your bottom is clean... then go out and experiment with all the sails in your inventory... you might find one points better than the other.

Study the sail trim guides, experimnt with barber hauling, headstay tension (backstay aduster)... and lead block position. Make sure your mainsail is dialed in with proper batten tension and that you have a functioning outhaul.

Just sheeting in the headsail all the way won't guarantee a higher pointing angle. The two sails work together... as a unit.. and the mainsail must have good airflow to give the boat the lift it needs to point well.

Now here's the deal..... don't become obsessed with increasing your pointing angle a degree or two. Remember your goal..... to get to the mark as fast as possible... that means VMG is more important... so sailing a lower angle at a higher speed may be more beneficial than pointing higher.

If you want to experiment with a tighter sheeting angle you can rig a simple barber hauler by tying a piece of line to sheet with a bowline and wind it in with you cabin winch.

 

[Joe]

What 90 degrees?

He means 90 degrees from one closehauled tack to the other.... based on boat's heading and true wind direction. Very important strategic information.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Pointing

Ah, Joe, I was expecting the OP to answer that one.

It seems as if he expects to be able to do that with a Catalina, any Catalina.

I've been lucky with doing 120 degrees (true - course from compass) on all of our boats: C22, C25 and C34. All have had 110s or smaller blades, and good mains. Still couldn't. Glad you can though. What's the trick? Oh, you just told us.

Thanks, you're explanation was really very good.

With his new boat he should get out and keep workin' on it. What a great excuse to use the boat more often. :dance:

PS - Did we all forget to tell him to get a winch handle?

 

[Ajay73]

What I was driving at with my question was whether the Catalina 27 is a decent upwind boat, of course, assuming you are doing most things right and have the boat tuned right. I was far enough off the 90 degree number to wonder whether the C27 is just not that good upwind. So I was looking for confirmation that, yeah, it's not that good upwind or some comments like "my boat has great upwind performance". Some boats no matter what you do just don't sail that well to weather. I wanted to find out if the C27 inherently was or was not a good upwind boat. Just looking for the general consensus on the C27. Thanks. And Stu, I have winch handle but just wasn't using it on that first day. I was just trying to get the general feel of the boat. I was also single handing.

 

[Nom De Guerre]

Ah, Joe, I was expecting the OP to answer that one.

It seems as if he expects to be able to do that with a Catalina, any Catalina.

I've been lucky with doing 120 degrees (true - course from compass) on all of our boats: C22, C25 and C34. All have had 110s or smaller blades, and good mains. Still couldn't. Glad you can though. What's the trick? Oh, you just told us.

Thanks, you're explanation was really very good.

With his new boat he should get out and keep workin' on it. What a great excuse to use the boat more often. :dance:

PS - Did we all forget to tell him to get a winch handle?

Not directly applicable as it's a different boat, but to add a data point to the Stu's information, my old C22 swinger could easily tack 90. Was I making leeway? Sure, but that's a different question.

Main draft position, traveler (such as it was) on hard, and NOT sheeting in too much were some of the keys to success.

 

[Ajay73]

I think my boat points well enough...... I can get 90 degrees tack to tack with my blade (110% working jib) but not with the much older 140 decksweeping genoa. It's pretty much had it's day, I will use it when I have crew and don't want to sail close hauled.

Make sure your bottom is clean... then go out and experiment with all the sails in your inventory... you might find one points better than the other.

Study the sail trim guides, experimnt with barber hauling, headstay tension (backstay aduster)... and lead block position. Make sure your mainsail is dialed in with proper batten tension and that you have a functioning outhaul.

Just sheeting in the headsail all the way won't guarantee a higher pointing angle. The two sails work together... as a unit.. and the mainsail must have good airflow to give the boat the lift it needs to point well.

Now here's the deal..... don't become obsessed with increasing your pointing angle a degree or two. Remember your goal..... to get to the mark as fast as possible... that means VMG is more important... so sailing a lower angle at a higher speed may be more beneficial than pointing higher.

If you want to experiment with a tighter sheeting angle you can rig a simple barber hauler by tying a piece of line to sheet with a bowline and wind it in with you cabin winch.

Thanks for the confirmation of the 90 degrees you get with the 110. That's good to hear that these C27's aren't just bathtubs for people that don't care about whether a boat sails well or not. I would think that these boats would be decent performers else they would not have sold as many. I used to race with a C22 but don't race anymore. But I still enjoy when a boat is performing well, even when just cruising. That first day I was in the neigherhood of 120 degrees. I have sailed a long time but mostly with smaller boats (Lightning, Interlakes, Hobie 16) but also owned a Cataline 22 and an S2 7.3(24 feet). Never felt like any of these boats had a problem with pointing. Maybe these bigger boats are more of a challenge. That first day out I did have good head stay tension as I have a split backstay with the tensioning block system. I always check the slot to make sure the two sails are working together. I probably should have had the main traveler centered or even to windward a little and loosend the mainsheet for the 10 knots of wind I had. The jib lead was in its centered position and I probably should have had it back further. Bottom had a little growth on it but I just pulled my boat to replace my stuffing box packing and I cleaned the bottom while it was out. I am retired so I have plenty of time to try different things.

 

[Joe]

Keep messing with it.... you'll get it the way you want it. This is the fun stuff.