In sailing my just purchased 1986 Catalina 27 to my home marina in rough conditions, heavy seas, 20 knot winds, sailing close hauled with a lot of healing...I thought my boat performed well. But when I got it to it's slip, I noticed the bilge pump was coming on every 6 or so minutes. It was a very wet 5 hour sail to get the boat back...so my initial assumption was that it was just water that we took on slowly making its way to the bilge, but the next day the bilge pump was still pumping every 6 minutes. I could not find any leaks fore or aft, so I thought the keel bolts might have loosened under the strenuous conditions. The boat was hauled out and we found a three to four inch crack at the aft keel/hull joint...it looks like the infamous Catalina smile...and this crack is where we located the source of the leak. The yard manager told me that this had been filled before as he chipped away at it with his knife. My surveyor never mentioned it to me and did not mention it in his survey...he had also owned two Catalina 27s. At this point I am pretty concerned and am hoping that this is the Catalina smile and can be easily corrected. I've done a search and read the notes on the smile...mine is aft and it seams most of them were in the fore portion of the keel. Has anyone heard of a similar situation and the outcome? LaDonna, if you read this note I would appreciate any input you might have. Any contacts at Catalina or websites with information on the recommended fix would also be appreciated if anyone has them. Thanks in advance for any replies. Jim (not smiling) in Connecticut.
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Don
That's a lot of water to not see the source
Check the bilge pump and plumbing. Under certain circumstances (usually while under way), water can siphon back into the pump. If your boat is inboard, check the stuffing box. Then the usual list of suspects: rudder stuffing box (if wheel steering), cockpit drains, and thru hull valves. Let us know what you find. Don #6293
Check the bilge pump and plumbing. Under certain circumstances (usually while under way), water can siphon back into the pump. If your boat is inboard, check the stuffing box. Then the usual list of suspects: rudder stuffing box (if wheel steering), cockpit drains, and thru hull valves. Let us know what you find. Don #6293
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LaDonna Bubak - CatalinaOwners
Keel bolts
Normally, the "smile" is more cosmetic than anything but if it's leaking, I would call Catalina & get their instructions on replacing the keel bolts. Good luck! LaDonna
Normally, the "smile" is more cosmetic than anything but if it's leaking, I would call Catalina & get their instructions on replacing the keel bolts. Good luck! LaDonna
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Randy
My boat had the crack at the aft end
Jim-- My 84 C27 had a crack at the aft end of the keel, right where it meets the hull. The crack was not present when we purchased/surveyed the boat (or wasn't apparent). Mine was not leaking, and only extended about 1.5 or 2 inches forward on each side. I wrote to Gerry Douglass at Catalina Yachts, and included a written description, as well as photos. Gerry was kind enough to phone me back right away, with advice on repair. Per his instructions, I had my yard grind out the area and lay in new fiberglass--essentially rebuilding the aft edge of the keel where it meets the hull. Both my yard, and Gerry believed the crack was not serious or structural, but should be repaired to prevent further damage or water intrusion. Good luck with your situation--let me know if you need more info. Randy
Jim-- My 84 C27 had a crack at the aft end of the keel, right where it meets the hull. The crack was not present when we purchased/surveyed the boat (or wasn't apparent). Mine was not leaking, and only extended about 1.5 or 2 inches forward on each side. I wrote to Gerry Douglass at Catalina Yachts, and included a written description, as well as photos. Gerry was kind enough to phone me back right away, with advice on repair. Per his instructions, I had my yard grind out the area and lay in new fiberglass--essentially rebuilding the aft edge of the keel where it meets the hull. Both my yard, and Gerry believed the crack was not serious or structural, but should be repaired to prevent further damage or water intrusion. Good luck with your situation--let me know if you need more info. Randy
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pat garrett
smile on a catalina 30
I have looked at two catalina 30 to buy, both have what was called the(smile) I wasn't smiling when I looked at the boats .One is a 81,onea 83 .Can anybody give me some insite on this problem? How should it be fixed.any other flaws with catalina's 30?
I have looked at two catalina 30 to buy, both have what was called the(smile) I wasn't smiling when I looked at the boats .One is a 81,onea 83 .Can anybody give me some insite on this problem? How should it be fixed.any other flaws with catalina's 30?
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Tom
Pat - The C30 Smile
Pat, The aft portion of the C30 keel is deeper than the front. So, when the boat is hauled out of the water and rests on it's keel on the ground, it rests on the aft part of the keel. If the keel is not properly blocked as well by the yard in the front of the keel, stresses may develop at the foward portion of the keel/hull intersection that cause a small crack there (the "Smile"). The Smile can be repaired by cleaning the keel & hull in this area of all bottom paint, lightly sanding the area, then applying 3 layers of fiberglass wetted with epoxy. Gradually increase the width of each subsequent layer of glass. The "Smile" can be avoided by properly blocking the keel (especially at the front) during a haulout. Also helpful for the boatowner to be around and watching whenever the boat is hauled and blocked in the boatyard.
Pat, The aft portion of the C30 keel is deeper than the front. So, when the boat is hauled out of the water and rests on it's keel on the ground, it rests on the aft part of the keel. If the keel is not properly blocked as well by the yard in the front of the keel, stresses may develop at the foward portion of the keel/hull intersection that cause a small crack there (the "Smile"). The Smile can be repaired by cleaning the keel & hull in this area of all bottom paint, lightly sanding the area, then applying 3 layers of fiberglass wetted with epoxy. Gradually increase the width of each subsequent layer of glass. The "Smile" can be avoided by properly blocking the keel (especially at the front) during a haulout. Also helpful for the boatowner to be around and watching whenever the boat is hauled and blocked in the boatyard.
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Melody Miller
Not a Haul Out Problem
Hi Pat: The Catalina "smile" is not a haul out problem. I believe it's a freakin' design problem that Catalina has put a warm fuzzy label on. I have the "smile" but it is on the forward - not the aft of the keel. Therefore I think you may have a different problem - keel bolts maybe. For years, my boat has been hauled by a marina that hauls boats with much bigger drafts than mine. That they somehow didn't block my boat or other Catalina's properly doesn't make sense. My smile is filled with 'Marine- Tex." It doesn't appear to be a problem, but you wonder why other boats don't have this. Good Luck, Melody
Hi Pat: The Catalina "smile" is not a haul out problem. I believe it's a freakin' design problem that Catalina has put a warm fuzzy label on. I have the "smile" but it is on the forward - not the aft of the keel. Therefore I think you may have a different problem - keel bolts maybe. For years, my boat has been hauled by a marina that hauls boats with much bigger drafts than mine. That they somehow didn't block my boat or other Catalina's properly doesn't make sense. My smile is filled with 'Marine- Tex." It doesn't appear to be a problem, but you wonder why other boats don't have this. Good Luck, Melody
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Sean
bilge sole
I have a similar issue and will be glad to share with you what I have learned from several other C-27 groups. My 1977 Cat '27 has, as do most others, a wood laminate underneath the bilge sole. Why Catalina every used wood, who knows? If you develop a Catalina Smile to the point that water enters through the crack, you will eventually begin to deteriorate the laminate which allows your keel bolts to leak, eventually getting water into the bilge through your keel bolts. This is a serious problem that should be addressed. There are several web sites that have detailed the repair, which basically calls for cutting out the old laminate, installing new laminate (although when I do mine, I don't think I will use a wood laminate, probably more roving and fiberglass), installing new lag bolts into the keel, and then resuface the bilge. It is definately a lot of work, but the thought of my boat turning turtle with my 5 year old on boatd definately motivates me! Sean "roll the dice"
I have a similar issue and will be glad to share with you what I have learned from several other C-27 groups. My 1977 Cat '27 has, as do most others, a wood laminate underneath the bilge sole. Why Catalina every used wood, who knows? If you develop a Catalina Smile to the point that water enters through the crack, you will eventually begin to deteriorate the laminate which allows your keel bolts to leak, eventually getting water into the bilge through your keel bolts. This is a serious problem that should be addressed. There are several web sites that have detailed the repair, which basically calls for cutting out the old laminate, installing new laminate (although when I do mine, I don't think I will use a wood laminate, probably more roving and fiberglass), installing new lag bolts into the keel, and then resuface the bilge. It is definately a lot of work, but the thought of my boat turning turtle with my 5 year old on boatd definately motivates me! Sean "roll the dice"
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