Catalina 22 vs Cape Dory 25

[ITMaster]

Cape Dory

my choice would be for the Cape Dory 25 if I were in your situation as others have indicated herein. We have 3 Cape Dory made boats at our marina and they are cherry. Their owners have great pride in them and they are pristine and I think you will find that you will enjoy it. Not sure if the 25 has a motor well or not; the ones that are here do and they may be 27's.

 

[JVB]

Neither the Cape Dory 25 or the Catalina 22 are a good choice. One is a coastal boat the other is a beginner's boat. Look at other sailboats in use on high altitude lakes. There have to be boats closer to the middle of the spectrum.

 

[Joe]

Neither the Cape Dory 25 or the Catalina 22 are a good choice. One is a coastal boat the other is a beginner's boat. Look at other sailboats in use on high altitude lakes. There have to be boats closer to the middle of the spectrum.

Uh... oh thanks for clearing everything up.

 

[shemandr]

I have a different opinion. Given the choice that you present, and the conditions that you set, the Cape Dory 25 will be a more stable platform for you and your wife to enjoy sailing on Lake Dillon. I've sailed on one quite a bit and while I don't love it, I will give it high marks on stability.
The engine well situation is awful. You'll be incentivized to sail.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Red Barn Guy;

As Captain Ron pointed out and I will second that, stick to what you want to do with the boat and where to sail. Do you want to stay on board overnight or not? Do you want to trailer or not? Do you want to trailer and leave in the water? How much do you want to spend? There are other questions but you catch the drift. Once you make up your mind, look at the boat that not only fits the bill but one that is pleasing to the eye as most tend to keep their sailboats much longer than others.

You also hit it on the nailhead about being a family outing and thank you for taking my advice on the heeling aspect and have the kids involved too because they will go sailing with you in their adult hood. I was considered one of the top small sailboat dealers in the world and the advice given is what I found to be true.

 

[sinnettc]

Jepomer is a good resource since he has both and I'd trust his opinion.

My buddy has a 70's CD25 and I have a 2001 Capri 22 tall rig/fin keel. In light air I run away from him. In heavier air he can run away from me. I can tow Verboten with a 1/2 ton pickup, he can't tow Stairway with a 1/2 ton pickup. He can stand up in the cabin, I can't stand up in the cabin. He has lots of brightwork to varnish, I don't. I can turn on a dime, he can't. Mine's 13 years old, his is 30 years old. His has a classic look, mine's more modern. Mine's light and nimble, his is heavy and stable.

Both nice boats, both have their pro's & con's. Go with the one that fits your sailing style.

Not very helpful am I? Go with Jepomer's advice.

 

[South Sagle Jim]

Thanks to all. It was a discussion about doing sailing with a family. but for me,and any novice, I needed all the discussion about the 22 and keeping the boat flat. Yeah one day I will be going up to a larger boat. For now I need to feel as good on the 22 as I do on the Sea Snark 11

 

[jepomer]

The original poster has a Catalina Capri 22 which is a different boat than the Catalina 22. It is more "sport-like" especially if it is the tall rig (30' mast vs. the 28' mast). I often say the Capri 22 is a J-22 want-a-be as a quick comparison. If you are going to trailer-sail, the Capri 22 will be easier to tow, launch, and rig.

For windy conditions, reef early. If yours had the traveler mid-cockpit, learn to use it shifting the sail force to the leeward (rail in the water) side. 10 to 15 degrees of heel can be maintained easily and give faster speeds than with the rail in the water. You will have more control and feel it. The passengers will like it better, too.

Go for a sail on the Cape Dory 25 in windy conditions and low wind conditions. The Cape Dory 25 will quickly heel 5-10 degrees, but do it in a slower motion due to the greater mass (4000 lbs vs 2250 lbs). The full keel has more surface area and will slow you down especially in light winds. But when the sustained winds go over 15 knots, the boat's motions in all three axes will be more comfortable.

Go inside the cabin and sit for awhile with the family. Yes, there is more room in the Cape Dory 25 cabin. But both will be like camping compared to a slightly larger boat with stand-up room.

Both are good boats that have stood the test of time. For lake sailing I would lean toward the Capri 22.

Sailing lessons for both you and your wife will go a long way in reducing the wide-eye look when a gust brings the boat to 30+ degrees. It is important to practice often in all types of weather. The comfort level in ANY boat will go up!

If the price and finances allow, you could have two boats. Then over time, you will see how much you will prefer one over the other. As I said, both boats are good designs. The better boat will be the one that you sail the most...

 

[jwing]

I'm with Crazy Dave here. While sailing, I asked my wife to tell me when the heel angle starts getting uncomfortable. At that point I showed her the inclinometer reading and told her that we will always sail flatter. I always leave enough cushion, depending on the conditions, so that gusts will not push us over her limit before I can react. The inclinometer tells her that I am respecting, not testing, the limits of her comfort zone. It also adds to her comfort at the tiller, since she can see that she is keeping the boat well under her limit, so that is one less thing to worry about.

I know it is not good to make gender generalizations, but some are accurate for most people, like this one: Compared to men, women tend to perceive more input stimulus in any give situation and women are less prone to filtering some stimulus out and focusing on just a few. The caveman analogy is that females had to be hyper-aware of everything going on around them in order to protect their children, while males had to focus their attention on capturing prey. Back to sailing, there are lots of things going on, lots of ways to receive information, lots of ways to interpret and react to it. This thread shows that. Now, the two most threatening bits of sailing are sinking and tipping over. It's easy to see that a boat is not sinking, but not so easy to know that the boat is not about to tip over. And if a rail is in the water, the possibility of sinking re-enters the picture. So, if you can show somebody that you can and will keep the boat from tipping over, you've eliminated the biggest fear and allowed the person to enjoy the day and maybe even enjoy being the sailor.

Back to the OP and boat selection. His wife may enjoy the steadiness of the CD, but he enjoys the sportiness of the Capri. I recommend that they learn how to sail the Capri conservatively and when he wants sportier action, she can stay ashore. Both get what they want without spending a cent (unless they have to buy an inclinometer for the Capri).

 

[Anonymous 121765]

J,

You brought up some good points for sailing your boat & how this makes your wife feel more relaxed & comfortable. That's a great level of compromise & for sailing enjoyment.
However, it was your last paragraph that I don't agree with. Allow me to explain.

I looked at your public profile & see that you sail in Guntersville lake, AL. RED on the other hand, sails in a lake in Colorado. He had mentioned of the surprise wind changing conditions & its effect that makes his wife uncomfortable. I have to believe the weather patterns & topography determine differences between both of your sailing locations. What he experiences, you may not.

I owned a C22 for a few years in the Tampa Bay area & can tell you that conditions change quickly here also. I experienced similar situations in wind & seas. Sometimes, it was, "White knuckle", so I can emphasize with what his wife was experiencing. I had guests in fear on my boat for sometimes, Mother Nature will throw you some surprise curves just to see if your paying attention. I have sailing friends whose wives no longer sail because of being in a bad situation when sailing.

They also have two young children to think about & I get the feeling at sometime, he would want to include them also. With this in mind, his sailing parameters differ somewhat from yours & others in this thread.

Then, we had some that went off on tangents about the problem being proper sailsets & tack angles related to his size boat & how to correct this. But remember again, that was not what he was asking, he wanted feedback on maybe moving up to and purchasing a 25CD as a compromise to insure his wife's comfort/enjoyment level.

Given this info. I would not be surprised if his decision is the 25 CD. It would more fit his, "Family style" of sailing. With sailors, the styles of sailing that fit them best, works well.

We guys, we run on Testosterone, women on the other hand, run on Sensibility. It's all good, everyone is different thus, everyone's sailing styles may differ also.

CR

 

[jwing]

Hey CaptainRon: Your points are perfectly good and had it been another day I might have made them myself.

It's interesting to see how we all interpret the exact same situation (in this case the original post) so differently. You saw it as a question about which boat is better for his family, a valid interpretation. I read: which boat is a better compromise between a somewhat weak objection by the wife to a quite strong preference of the husband: "...my wife is still not entirely comfortable under what I consider to be the most enjoyable conditions, with a good, strong wind and the boat heeling over a fair bit." My answer has the built-in assumption that the man can sometimes sail his boat without his wife, but that may not be the case.

In the end, the OP's request was not explicitly either of those interpretations: "..specifically which one is a better boat for mountain lake sailing..." The word 'specifically' is a bit odd here because it is an ambiguous question, and it predictably drew a wide variety of responses.

I'm not trying to argue or bash anybody...just amused at this whole process of people who've never met trying to communicate by writing. In a way, I love the ambiguous questions because I often learn at least something, if not a lot, from the responses. This thread is great!