Cat 28 MKII - Genoa

Fred

.
Sep 27, 2008
516
Catalina 28 mkii 745 Ottawa, Ontario, CA
I’m looking to replace my Genoa. I believe that the one I have is 135%. I’m considering a 150%. I do not race but primarily enjoy cruising. I often solo-sail. Sailing will be on inland lake. - the recommendation for the 150 was driven by the following considerations: 1) good for low wind conditions typical on inland lakes 2) easier to deploy than raising the main when sailing alone or on a social cruise with passengers. 3) with foam luff, reefs well and easily. What are your thoughts?
 
Jan 7, 2011
4,908
Oday 322 East Chicago, IN
I have a different boat, but on my 1988 O’Day 322 masthead rigged boat, I replaced my jib over the winter.
My old sail was a 155.
I sail on Lake Michigan.

in speaking with my local North Sail loft, they suggested a 135. They asked me if I reefed my 155 a lot (which I did, except in the light winds). We get a lot of strong winds (and I like to sail in all sort of weather). So I went from a 155 to a 135.

I have sailed it throughout the summer, and with few exceptions, haven’t missed the extra canvas. Had 1 day that we had almost no wind…no sail could have fixed that.

I still have to reef the 135 in really strong winds (20+ knots). I was out this week and ran into 25 knot winds. Sailed with a very small jib that night.

So, I think the questions are:
1) do you reef the 135 very often?
2) are the winds typically lower where you could use more sail?
3) do you like to sail in high wind conditions or do you stay at the dock those days?

If you have a local loft to talk to, their advice could be valuable.

:beer:

Greg
 

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
21,383
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
1) good for low wind conditions typical on inland lakes
2) easier to deploy than raising the main when sailing alone or on a social cruise with passengers.
3) with foam luff, reefs well and easily.


My thoughts.
1) Low wind conditions are better serves by an asymmetrical spinnaker than a 150% Genoa.

2) A 135 jib on a furler in condition 2 (solo) or social cruising is easier to manage in all conditions but especially if the conditions change for the worse. Smaller sails are easier to manage. In a social environment a colored spinnaker with low wind is a beautiful experience and will leave a lasting impression on guests.
3) The foam luff is not about ease of reefing it is about trying to improve the sail shape. Note the word trying. A reefed sail has poorer performance. Which is the intent of reefing.

For all of your conditions, I would recommend the 135 Jib and a asymmetrical spinnaker. You can put it on a Top Down furler and have the best possible arrangement. I solo sail and use my Asymmetrical, deploying with a sock. I fly it in less than 8 knots of breeze and it looks exceptional. It can be flown with or without the main. Here is the sail flying. We are in an 8 knot breeze, doing 4.5 knots on a beam reach.

IMG_0687.jpeg
 
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Jun 8, 2004
2,878
Catalina 320 Dana Point
The last three headsails I've bought have been 150's so I like your choice. Current sail has a foam luff which I find works very well when furled. I have a spinnaker in a sock, I don't fly it unless I have to go in excess of 8 miles DDW in airs under 10 knots. I don't sail with just the headsail.
 

KCofKC

.
Sep 6, 2010
42
Catalina 28TR MKI 317 Smithville
I'm a little confused the heading shows Cat 28 MKII, but in your profile it lists Hunter 33 and your photo is a fractional rig which leads me to believe it is not a C-28. Anyway most of what I say will apply either way.

Everyone has an opinion and some will disagree with me. First I have a C28 MKI Tall Rig. I have owned it for 20 years. I have a reef-able main from the cockpit, I have an assortment of Spinnakers and a 135% on my roller furler. Most will tell you that the C-28 is not a racing boat and it is not, but they also back them selves into a corner with a 155%. A 135% will out point a 155% and a 110% will outpoint a 135%. So if your trying to race a 135 or a155 in mid to strong winds your giving up the world, you are using a sail out of it's performance range. For this use a 110% and back it up with a proper assortment of spinnakers and you will be competitive. Everyone else will out point you and leave you setting with a 155%. If I were to have only one Genoa it would be the 135% unless racing then a 110% The C-28 is also very sensitive to jib car adjustment and if is not right nothing will be.

A mast head rig gets most of it's power from the head sail and the main adds some additional power and balances the helm. On a fractional rig the main provides most of the power and the jib increases the flow to the main like a turbocharger and brings balance into the helm. You also have to be sure that the slot is clean and fair so as to not disrupt the laminar flow.

Tally Ho kind of confirms this. jssailem also seems to agree and also makes the point towards spins as well as add that smaller sails are easier to handle and I agree as I am getting older.

You also state that you solo a lot and it's easier to do just the jib. This in my eye is a lazy and dangerous approach especially with an auto helm. If your solo and under headsail alone with auto helm, make sure you wear a good life jacket because if you fall over the boat will sail on with out you and you will never catch it, this is why a boat is designed with weather helm, if you fall over just using manual steering it will head up, cross over, cross back, you have a chance of catching it. I do a lot of solo as well. If you go over with friends can they come back and get you if you go over?

As for reefing the minute you start to reef the sail degrades in efficiency the more you reef the less efficient. The foam is used as a filler to take the belly out of the Genoa, which makes a fat roll at the head-stay and distorts laminar flow as well and even more.

Stu, I tried to get onto the thread back to the C-34 site but was unable, it would not go but there was interesting posts on the thread I could get to.

I would add one other thing, if you buy a 1?? % sail it will always be better than the old blown one, but then how do you know that you got the best sail for your needs unless you buy two or three. On a racing boat that I campaigned nationally I had 3 mains, 8 jibs/genoa's, all different. You can tell significant differences in tiny things, even with spins, cut, weight, shape all do make a difference.

A sail maker worth his weight will ask a lot of questions because most sailors don't really understand how things affect each others, that is why you get the, well I jut need a bigger sail, probably not so.

Something that jssailem said made me smile. I have several spins, one I bought on kind of a joke, it is oddly shaped but it is huge, it is huge and due to it's odd size it won't fit a real big boat and is a bit large for mine but it was really cheap, really light maybe a tad bit ugly and colorless. It seems probably more than double the size of the one in his photo which is beautifu by the way. But when I launch that bad boy, I can hear it a mile away! WOOOOOOOW! So I had to laugh! That's my thoughts with out writing a novel, hope you find some gem to help you in there.
 
Jan 7, 2011
4,908
Oday 322 East Chicago, IN
You also state that you solo a lot and it's easier to do just the jib. This in my eye is a lazy and dangerous approach especially with an auto helm. If your solo and under headsail alone with auto helm, make sure you wear a good life jacket because if you fall over the boat will sail on with out you and you will never catch it, this is why a boat is designed with weather helm, if you fall over just using manual steering it will head up, cross over, cross back, you have a chance of catching it. I do a lot of solo as well. If you go over with friends can they come back and get you if you go over?
I solo sail a lot, and often use the AP. I don’t think using the jib alone vs main and jib will make much of a difference if I were to go overboard…the boat is going to sail away without me….

True, a boat will tend to round up if not using the AP and with both sails set…not sure about main sail alone.

But if the AP is on, it won’t matter. And if I am somewhere where I can fall off( typically up on deck somewhere), I will have the AP on.

Best rule is ”stay on the boat”.

Greg
 

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
21,383
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Solo sailors use PFD’s, jacklines, and tether’s to stay on the boat.

Several threads can be found here on the forum.

:plus: Stay on the boat.
 
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Fred

.
Sep 27, 2008
516
Catalina 28 mkii 745 Ottawa, Ontario, CA
I'm a little confused the heading shows Cat 28 MKII, but in your profile it lists Hunter 33 and your photo is a fractional rig which leads me to believe it is not a C-28. Anyway most of what I say will apply either way.

Everyone has an opinion and some will disagree with me. First I have a C28 MKI Tall Rig. I have owned it for 20 years. I have a reef-able main from the cockpit, I have an assortment of Spinnakers and a 135% on my roller furler. Most will tell you that the C-28 is not a racing boat and it is not, but they also back them selves into a corner with a 155%. A 135% will out point a 155% and a 110% will outpoint a 135%. So if your trying to race a 135 or a155 in mid to strong winds your giving up the world, you are using a sail out of it's performance range. For this use a 110% and back it up with a proper assortment of spinnakers and you will be competitive. Everyone else will out point you and leave you setting with a 155%. If I were to have only one Genoa it would be the 135% unless racing then a 110% The C-28 is also very sensitive to jib car adjustment and if is not right nothing will be.

A mast head rig gets most of it's power from the head sail and the main adds some additional power and balances the helm. On a fractional rig the main provides most of the power and the jib increases the flow to the main like a turbocharger and brings balance into the helm. You also have to be sure that the slot is clean and fair so as to not disrupt the laminar flow.

Tally Ho kind of confirms this. jssailem also seems to agree and also makes the point towards spins as well as add that smaller sails are easier to handle and I agree as I am getting older.

You also state that you solo a lot and it's easier to do just the jib. This in my eye is a lazy and dangerous approach especially with an auto helm. If your solo and under headsail alone with auto helm, make sure you wear a good life jacket because if you fall over the boat will sail on with out you and you will never catch it, this is why a boat is designed with weather helm, if you fall over just using manual steering it will head up, cross over, cross back, you have a chance of catching it. I do a lot of solo as well. If you go over with friends can they come back and get you if you go over?

As for reefing the minute you start to reef the sail degrades in efficiency the more you reef the less efficient. The foam is used as a filler to take the belly out of the Genoa, which makes a fat roll at the head-stay and distorts laminar flow as well and even more.

Stu, I tried to get onto the thread back to the C-34 site but was unable, it would not go but there was interesting posts on the thread I could get to.

I would add one other thing, if you buy a 1?? % sail it will always be better than the old blown one, but then how do you know that you got the best sail for your needs unless you buy two or three. On a racing boat that I campaigned nationally I had 3 mains, 8 jibs/genoa's, all different. You can tell significant differences in tiny things, even with spins, cut, weight, shape all do make a difference.

A sail maker worth his weight will ask a lot of questions because most sailors don't really understand how things affect each others, that is why you get the, well I jut need a bigger sail, probably not so.

Something that jssailem said made me smile. I have several spins, one I bought on kind of a joke, it is oddly shaped but it is huge, it is huge and due to it's odd size it won't fit a real big boat and is a bit large for mine but it was really cheap, really light maybe a tad bit ugly and colorless. It seems probably more than double the size of the one in his photo which is beautifu by the way. But when I launch that bad boy, I can hear it a mile away! WOOOOOOOW! So I had to laugh! That's my thoughts with out writing a novel, hope you find some gem to help you in there.
Thanks! BTW I sold my Hunter 33.5 and replaced it with a Cat 28 MkII - need to update my profile.
 
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Aug 2, 2009
649
Catalina 315 Muskegon
I had a Catalina 28 MKII, and sail Lake Michigan. When I bought my 28, it had a tattered 150, which I replaced with a 135. Currently have a Catalina 315 with a 135 Genoa. I definitely prefer a 135. Two reasons:

1. If the winds are so low that a 135 plus the main aren't enough to provide an interesting sail, a 150 isn't going to make an appreciable difference.

2. Coming about is easier with a 135.

3. I know....I said 2 reasons. Here on Lake Michigan, I have to reef my 135 fairly often. If I have to reef a 150 down to the same square footage as my moderately reefed 135, I've compromised the sail shape more than I would with a 135.
 

Fred

.
Sep 27, 2008
516
Catalina 28 mkii 745 Ottawa, Ontario, CA
Not sure if I made the right decision but I ordered the 150 from Catalina Direct. If I remember, I'll post my experience next season when I receive it. As an after-thought, I'm guessing that I will need to upgrade the sheets and possibly the furler line. Thank you all for your input.
 
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Fred

.
Sep 27, 2008
516
Catalina 28 mkii 745 Ottawa, Ontario, CA
I've had a chance to install and sail with my 150% Genoa. I needed to change out the jib sheets from 70ft to 80ft. My furler line seems to be ok. I am very happy with the sail. Earlier this week I sailed with the Genoa only (i.e. no main) in 10+ kts of wind. For sustained periods I was holding over 6 kts of boat speed. I had no Lee helm on my port tack (up-river) but some tendency to Lee helm on the starboard (down river) tack. For sailing in my locale (i.e. inland lakes) it seems like a very good sail.
 
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