Cat 22 or Macgregor 26

caguy · Dec 2, 2011

The 22 is safe enough for less than severe weather but it does tend to bob and bounce around a bit in a chop or waves over 3 ft with a short wave lenght. I would go for the 26 with a swing keel. The headroom is what is really nice by comparison. If you go over to Catalina it's nice to spend 3-4 days there since 2 of the days are spend traveling. For that long of a stay the extra room is nice. You might also want to considder the The Catalina 25 and if you can afford it the Hunter 260 is a beautiful boat.

capshroud · Dec 2, 2011

I think you'll find that the McGregor is going to bob and bounce a much as the C22. There will be more space for 4 even on a light 26. Too bad you can't pull a C25. Light water ballasted boats aren't very sea kindly.

Bilbo · Dec 3, 2011

Brian Buzz said:
................

I like the weighted keel more than the water ballast of the MacGregor but I would give that up for the safety of a bigger boat if necessary. Any comments or help is much appreciated.

Thanks,
Buzz

hmmm.....I'm not sure if the MacGregor 26 is actually safer than the C22. Size isn't everything when we are dealing with about 4 ft of waterline. The hull shape of both are similar and so in certain kinds of chop, both would probably do some slamming. A friend has a MacGregor 26 in the slip next to us and his boat on the water seems more tender. During a high wind storm this past summer at the docks, his boat also threw it's backstay and took out our C22's windex and anchor light. Although his backstay fully entangled in our 3 forward shrouds, both masts fortunately remained up. Me thinks that the C22 is sturdier all around. The advantage of the 26 is that it's more spacious inside, lighter and lower on the trailer.
If you get one, don't forget to always know whether the water ballast tanks are full. There was an incident on Lake Champlain with one.

Bilbo · Dec 3, 2011

Brian Buzz said:
Thanks...I think the Cat is a better built boat too and nicer looking. I guess my question comes down to this ....Would you take your family out in the ocean for a day cruise with 2 to 4 feet swells and a fair wind and feel safe on your Cat 22 . That is what I want to buy this boat for and if you feel that it might scare the Jesus out of us because the boat is to small , please let me know and I'll move on. I got the buying bug and ready to go.

Buzz

Hi, I understand Buzz. I don't think that my wife would like 4ft swells. She went below in 2 1/2 footers when I was plowing and slamming head on through them under power. Some C22 sailors will go out in bigger than that and on the yahoo Forum there is a Robert Bemben from the straights of Macinac that takes his boat out single handed in like 4 footers regularly. You might want to add that forum to your list and ask him about it. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/catalina22/ Of course those are freshwater swells and I think that there's a difference because freshwater is less dense. I think that what I'd want is something at least a 30 ft. with a deep solid keel and a nice curve to the chines. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chine_%28boating%29 In the Wiki picture, I would want the top (A) curve and not the bottom (Powerboat sort of shape) ones. This gives the boat a bit less initial stability but a better final stability and it will cut through waves better. The drawback for your situation is in the bigger size/cost of the boat and transport/maintenance. The Catalina yachts web page lists their smallest OCEAN Series as their 385 (38 ft.) That gives you enough room for some privacy after a few days on board.

On the C22, with a weeks worth of gear down below, you can't move until
everybody else moves and they can't move until your gear is moved.

Sylvan · Dec 3, 2011

Rent?

You might try to rent or charter for a test ride before you make up your mind. Not sure what's available, but 15 years ago we rented a nice C-22 in San Diego Haarbor near the airport. RK

Milton.Audas · Dec 4, 2011

My vote is for the C-22. We looked at the McGregors and almost bought one. The worry for me was the water ballast with its centre of gravity being a little higher. Good system for light weather sailing and ease of trailering (and light weight).If you're staying on a slip during the sailing season then that's not so much of a benefit.The C-22's swing keel or fixed keel at 550 lbs to me seems better in a chop. Our C22 behaves reasonably well in a chop (admittedly on lake conditions) and i believe this is largely due to the hull shape and fact that the ballast (huge chunk of metal) is as far down as it can be.

Likewise, our opinion is that the 'new' M26 X and 26M aren't sailor's boats. More for the posers. I mean 24 kts and a fiddlly wheel which doesn't look as if it would offer much control in a tight spot (prefer a tiller myself). It's a ski-tug with a sail. The older styled 26D and 26S aren't bad boats, with plenty of room, but we love our Cat 22. I think we made the right choice. a little heavier to trailer but it's a solid boat, well made and good tech support - both in terms of parts and advice, and this Forum site is very active and extremely helpful. The McGregor site is pretty inactive.

Good luck...

Stu Jackson · Dec 4, 2011

I agree, having had one, too. We sailed all over here, maybe not out into the ocean until we got our C25, but the C22 handled everything we threw at it with aplomb. Solid, solid boats.

We were out in conditions with bigger boats all the time. Hardly ever saw a MacGregor out in those days, or even when it was not honkin'.

Big giveaway? Check the difference in the rigging.

OldCat · Dec 5, 2011

Re swells: A lot depends on whether there is any chop atop the swell, and the wavelength of the swell. The big Pacific rollers that come in AFTER a storm has passed through SoCal are very easy to sail or motor in since the wind is generally light after such a storm. So are the big summer swells that form out between Anacapa and Santa Cruz islands, these even with some wind. SoCal summer winds are generally light-moderate, but of course, there are some days when chop can build up. Also, you don't want to be on the water when Santa Ana winds are blowing.

There are many summer days when most any sound boat in this size range can be sailed to Catalina. The weather is predictable and the channel islands filter what would otherwise be thousands of miles of built up waves - which is why the best surfers generally want to go north of Vandenburg AFB.

Built by Catalina, to go to Catalina...

OC

littlescoop · Dec 5, 2011

I have a 1974 Cat swing keel and live in Monterey California
I sail just about every weekend and have saild in swells up too 8ft--10ftt with wnd speeds as much as 15notts... Im a surfer so a little crazy BUT haven said that if you are carefull safe use the correct sails for the conditions you can sail to Mexico if you know what you are doing... In the real world up to 5foot sweels wind speed no more that 12notts Max...

CaptDon01 · Dec 6, 2011

Brian,

I see your in Oceanside.....we live in Escondido and keep our C-22 down in Mission Bay where we dry-sail the boat. Take a look at my profile albums, and we would be glad to show you our C-22 MK-II version with the wing keel. The wing keel only draws 6" more than the swing keel version with the keel up. Not a racer, but extremely stable, and the MK-II version has much more interior room, (the hull is also slightly wider). Last July, my wife and I took an 8 day trip from Mission Bay up to Oceanside, then up to Dana Point, then Catalina Island for several days. We then sailed from Two Harbors direct Oceanside,(68 miles of beautiful open Pacific Ocean), then back to Mission Bay. You need to pay attention to the weather, but the C-22 is a capable comfortable cruiser for our area. Would love to see you find a C-22, we're trying to get a C-22 fleet going here in the area. Lot going on for trailer-sailors here in the area. Love talking about C-22's, this is our second one, give me a shout.

Don

littlescoop · Dec 6, 2011

Now that is a real SAILOR I love to read that when we take our 22cats for a 8 day trip....Thankyou for that post

CaptDon01 · Dec 7, 2011

Brian,

There is a 1999 C-22 MK-II wing keel at our club that is for sale. I've only seen it move twice in the past 3 years, and that was to take it from the slip around front at the club for Opening Day at the club. No trailer or motor, sails and rigging original I'm sure, will need bottom painting, (paint has been scrub'ed away). He's "asking "$7500", but that's too high in my opinion. Depends on what your budget is, several fixer-uppers out there. I don't want the maintenance and repair of an old boat, I want to play at this stage in my life.

Don

jfrench · Dec 8, 2011

I haven't seen much comment about your statement "with FOUR aboard." Personally, I think more than two on board a Cat 22 is a crowd. For overnight, 3 or more is an impossibility. The cabin has no standing space unless a Pop-Top is installed and open, and that option is only for when the boat is at anchor. Get more than two people below walking around bent over and everyone's stress level will rise. The Porti-John shares space with the V-berth, so it's unavailable at night with someone sleeping in the V.

Maybe I'm not tough enough to be a 'real' sailor, but I consider the Cat 22 good for daysailing or a weekend overnighter for one or two. It's also great for comfortable single-handed sailing and can be used for trips up to a week for one (but you'll likely want to have your credit card with you for a few restaurant meals and a night or two in a hotel).

The smart bet for you would be to rent a couple of boats first and see how your group fares. You'll quickly be able to focus in the size you need, then you can shop for a particular type of boat in that size. The money spent on rentals would be a lot less than the cost of buying and outfitting the wrong boat.

OldCat · Dec 8, 2011

Brian Buzz said:
...It will be mainly for my wife and I on overnight trips and up to four on day sailing trips. The cabin in the 22 is big enough for two of us to spend a couple nights on which is fine.

Is the 22 big and safe enough for fair-weather coastal day sailing with four aboard?

jfrench,

IMHO: four aboard is not a problem for "fair-weather coastal day sailing". The OP is based in Oceanside and has the easy option of towing to San Diego Bay or Mission Bay to get up to speed on the boat in very easy conditions. Then they can head out for day sails on the ocean. Conditions outside the harbor along most of the coast from Santa Barbara to San Diego are often mild from late spring to early fall and weather predictability is very good.

The NW end of LA harbor is something of a wind funnel - lots of wind almost every day in the summer - for that I'd prefer three aboard. Also, the OP indicated two aboard for cruising, a good match for the boat, and going to Catalina Island is not a problem*.

Again, IMHO: The OP has reasonable expectations for these boats for SoCal sailing. C22 or M'Greg. I feel a Catalina is a higher quality boat...

OC

*Usual qualifiers for a 22' boat: follow weather reports, good weather, sound boat, safety gear, sailor has moderate experience.