I have a 1984 O'day 222 and have been sailing it for about 5 weeks. Has anyone ever had to the boat to capsize from high winds or will the sail spill the wind out before going over? How do I know how far to let the boat heel before it has reached its limit?
Capsizing an O'day 222
- Thread starter mccadamsoday
- Start date
Flat is fast. Heeling more than 10-15 degrees generally will have you slipping more sideways rather than going forward. If you are heeling more than that, you need more crew weight on the rail to counteract the force up high or you need to trim the sails differently to depower the rig.
A well designed keel ballasted boat (like the C-22) can be knocked down with sails on the water by a strong enough wind. But they will recover under the steady force of the ballasted keel.
The only way weather/waves will capsize such a boat is if it is struck on the beam by a wave higher than the beam of the boat. In a coastal cruising scenario, it takes about twice as long for high winds to build up such waves over a long fetch, as it would take to reach a safe port, so the scenario is avoidable.
The only way weather/waves will capsize such a boat is if it is struck on the beam by a wave higher than the beam of the boat. In a coastal cruising scenario, it takes about twice as long for high winds to build up such waves over a long fetch, as it would take to reach a safe port, so the scenario is avoidable.
The angle of maximum righting moment (GZ) of a keelboat is normally around 60 degrees. It takes A LOT to get a sailboat to heel past that, as the breeze starts spilling over the top of the tilted sailplan around that point.
WAY before you get to this point you are no longer 'sailing'.
Even knocked down flat with the masttop in the water, most boats have positive righting moment and will pop back up if the pressure is eased and downflooding does not occur first. Be careful once the mast starts going in the water however.
WAY before you get to this point you are no longer 'sailing'.
Even knocked down flat with the masttop in the water, most boats have positive righting moment and will pop back up if the pressure is eased and downflooding does not occur first. Be careful once the mast starts going in the water however.
Most of the O'Day's I had (DS, 23POP, 23, 25,28) all tend to have a bit of a weather helm which is a safety feature. In a big wind if the boat keeps driving you into the wind, you need to get rid of some sail. Burying some rail is fun sometimes, but beyond that it becomes work and potentially problematical.
This may have nothing to do with the OP's boat.. but the "issue" with a knockdown is if water can rush inside the cabin when this happens. Water inside the cabin reduces righting moment.. and then you may have a real problem. Most boats have no issue at all with this but if you are worried about it.. just keep the hatch boards in if there is any risk of wild weather..
I have heeled my 192, which is the smaller sister of the 222, so far that water has come in over the cockpit coaming. In order to heel that far, you must have a great gust while close hauled, and you must deliberately steer the boat aggressively so that she doesn't round up. Needless to say, this is not optimal from a sailing standpoint. On other days like this, I have sailed with reefed main alone without jib. Some boats will heel far enough that the rudder breaks free of the water, and they round up automatically. Not sure I want mine to heel more than I have, to find the point where she automatically rounds up. There would be a lot of water in the cockpit in that case!
You'll have to recognize that this is a coastal cruising/daysailing boat for mostly protected water. Which, is pretty much most boats in this size and functional range. Unless you get a small bluewater boat like a Flicka. When the wind is gusting to 30 knots, it's best to be headed in with reduced sail, or not go out in those conditions.
All that being said, having grown up an unballasted dinghy sailor, it did take me a season or so to get over concern about heeling, and to learn to trust the ballast. Perhaps that big heeling day, I trusted the ballast too much?
The other weekend she was just heeling enough to wash the toe rails, and not the coaming. I moved up to sitting on top of the coaming, which is perfectly sculpted and angled for this. I was still washing the coaming "sitting out" like that, so I hove-to and tucked in my reef. Things were a bit more calm after that.
You'll have to recognize that this is a coastal cruising/daysailing boat for mostly protected water. Which, is pretty much most boats in this size and functional range. Unless you get a small bluewater boat like a Flicka. When the wind is gusting to 30 knots, it's best to be headed in with reduced sail, or not go out in those conditions.
All that being said, having grown up an unballasted dinghy sailor, it did take me a season or so to get over concern about heeling, and to learn to trust the ballast. Perhaps that big heeling day, I trusted the ballast too much?
The other weekend she was just heeling enough to wash the toe rails, and not the coaming. I moved up to sitting on top of the coaming, which is perfectly sculpted and angled for this. I was still washing the coaming "sitting out" like that, so I hove-to and tucked in my reef. Things were a bit more calm after that.
Thank you to all who have replied with your wisdom and knowledge. I sail the Tennessee river so I don't have to worry about mega waves, just occasional thunder storms that crop up sometimes quickly. I've been sailing in 10 mph constant winds with maybe 15 or so gusts. I felt like the 222 with its ballast would probably be a little hard to knock down completely.
Stick with those wind conditions if you are new. I pushed my luck twice in Lake Guntersville with gusty conditions 20+ and small white caps. The family and wife did not have a good time when we got knocked around trying to come about with too much sail up. I've learned to watch weather closely and drop sails / reef when my wife starts to get too nervous. Relaxed and family fun is more important to me then sailing fast and pushing it.
When I had a Bandit 15, a centerboard boat, I had that very question. So I went out in a moderate wind to see if I could "Capsize" it. It wasn't that hard. Then the mast stuck in the bottom and I had a hell of a time to get the boat turned around, the mainsheet released and the boat uprighted. A few minutes of extreme bailing and I had drifted into shallow water... All in all I learned it isn't fun to recover from a capsize. It's nice to have done it, to know what has to be done, to have done it on a cheap boat. But, after that, while sailing in windier conditions I always had the main sheet in hand.
When I had some less experienced crew (i.e. friends who had never before been on a sailboat), a little bit of heel would bring up this question. I always told them that with 600' of lead ballast in the keel, the mast would come crashing down before the boat capsized.
Then one day, I went out in really wild weather. Blowing steady over 20mph, gusting over 30. Waves were 4-6' (and that's on a lake, so a short wavelength). Franky, I had FAR too much sail out. Sure enough:
https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/dismasted.143110/
Then one day, I went out in really wild weather. Blowing steady over 20mph, gusting over 30. Waves were 4-6' (and that's on a lake, so a short wavelength). Franky, I had FAR too much sail out. Sure enough:
https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/dismasted.143110/
I have a 240 and i agree with much of what has been said here. the trick is sizing the sails and don't be afraid to keep the foresail smaller (jib or storm jib) or drop it out ODays sail easy with just the main sail with little wind and stronger gusts. Enjoy
Ron 20324:
Interesting picture. But the boat in the picture is not a ballasted keel boat like the C-22. Its an unballasted racing boat. They easily capsize when knocked down, if the sail gets in the water and the crew is not quick to get on the center/dagger board. (As this crew is doing.)
Interesting picture. But the boat in the picture is not a ballasted keel boat like the C-22. Its an unballasted racing boat. They easily capsize when knocked down, if the sail gets in the water and the crew is not quick to get on the center/dagger board. (As this crew is doing.)
If you like to heel, keep your slider and crib boards closed. That way, if you manage to lay her down and get some water in the cockpit, it won't fill the cabin and sink the boat. I think the real danger of sinking is being capsized by a wave while layed over or broached by a Spinnaker and spinning out, filling the cockpit with water which then rushes into the cabin when the companionway is open. Otherwise, a keel ballasted boat will right itself after a few moments of excitement for the occupants!
Now Jackdaw, when he gets knocked down, pops a beer while standing upright on the cockpit combing, water splashing around his feet, and says, "ease the mainsheet please. Wait for it. Wait for it" as he steps back onto the cockpit of the righting vessel!
Now Jackdaw, when he gets knocked down, pops a beer while standing upright on the cockpit combing, water splashing around his feet, and says, "ease the mainsheet please. Wait for it. Wait for it" as he steps back onto the cockpit of the righting vessel!
As far as wondering how much the O'Day can heel over - ask yourself why. The O'Day is lightweight and sensitive to high winds. The boat will sail faster, more comfortably, and the experience will be much gentler on the boat if you Reef. Yes - the boat will actually sail faster reefed in 15 knots than heeled over. I have been sailing my 222 for over 14 years- generally within 10 miles of shore in the sometimes very windy Channel Islands. I have thousands of miles on the boat per my Garmin gps. I have buried the rail and still felt secure. However, I sail faster with the main reefed, and both sails adjusted out a bit than drawn close and heeled.