I think I posted this incorrectly before. The gang at the Catalina 30 blog directed me to this site and specifically to the Head Mistress. I have had an '89 Catalina 30 for 2 years. Last year all was well, except the waste vent clogged, but that was easy to fix. This year started out well, but now the head is doing weird things. Up to now, the bowl has always been dry, even when heeling. Earlier this summer I arrived to find the bowl was full and overflowing on a very hot day. Since my boat partner had a party the weekend before, I assumed tank just needed to be pumped out. Did that, plus the nasty cleanup, and it worked for about a month, then bowl backed up to half full (think this might be where sea level is). Pumped out the tank again and within a week, water is back in the bowl again halfway up. When I pump the toilet down now, I can see the bowl filling back up - takes about 2 minutes. The literature left behind from PO says my head is a Par, but that might not be current. The base of the head is at or slightly above the level of the top of the holding tank. I have no anti-siphon loops on the system. The y valve is in the correct position and all the thru-hull valves (raw water intake, macerator waste out, and direct waste out) are shut. We don't use the bay water in the toilet - just squirt from the sink. Is there an easy way to trouble shoot the location of the problem? Can that circular plate in the top of the tank, where the vent hose attaches be removed so I can see into the tank? (this of course would be after pumping down the tank again!) Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Irene
Can't keep the bowl empty
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I'm not the expert here and perhaps Peggy will have better advice. I would replace the jocker valve if you have not done this in a year or more. I think the only reason for a backup would be a clogged vent or a defective jocker valve.I defer to the expert on this site Peggy.
Not enough information yet to offer advice...
You've said that the bowl keeps filling up, but you haven't said how full the tank is each time you find water in the bowl. So...how much IS in the tank when you find the bowl full to the waterline? Do you know? Is there a tank level indicator installed in the tank? Is the toilet being used? Iow, WHAT's in the tank...water AND waste? Or just water.
You said you've kept the intake thru-hull permanently closed (which, btw, is NOT good for the toilet pump!) since you bought the boat... When was the last time you inspected it and/or worked the seacocks? It's an old boat, with old equipment still in place (Par toilet was my first clue...Jabsco hasn't made toilets with that brand for 20+ years). If the thru-hull is leaking, would you know? N
Is there a macerator or other pump installed to dump the tank at sea? If so, when if ever was the last time anyone checked that seacock to see whether it's leaking?
I'll prob'ly have a whole bunch more questions that'll need answers before I can tell you what's happening...but this is a start.
You've said that the bowl keeps filling up, but you haven't said how full the tank is each time you find water in the bowl. So...how much IS in the tank when you find the bowl full to the waterline? Do you know? Is there a tank level indicator installed in the tank? Is the toilet being used? Iow, WHAT's in the tank...water AND waste? Or just water.
You said you've kept the intake thru-hull permanently closed (which, btw, is NOT good for the toilet pump!) since you bought the boat... When was the last time you inspected it and/or worked the seacocks? It's an old boat, with old equipment still in place (Par toilet was my first clue...Jabsco hasn't made toilets with that brand for 20+ years). If the thru-hull is leaking, would you know? N
Is there a macerator or other pump installed to dump the tank at sea? If so, when if ever was the last time anyone checked that seacock to see whether it's leaking?
I'll prob'ly have a whole bunch more questions that'll need answers before I can tell you what's happening...but this is a start.
More information
I can't tell how full the tank is. It's black with no indicator. I called for a pump out in the slip since I didn't want to spill more sewage by moving the boat, and I was not present when they came to do it. I called afterwards but didn't really get a straight answer on how full it was. The first time it may very well have been full and the stuff in the bowl was a thick and smelly brown. I also noticed a brown caked on drip coming from the plate on the top of the tank later. The next time I don't think we could have filled the tank, since we were trying not to use it, but that doesn't mean it wasn't full from other sources. That time the bowl was full of urine smelling water. This last time, we haven't used it at all. Bowl water still smells like urine. I will thump the tank this weekend and try to remove the lid, if you think this is a good idea. All seacocks were inspected during the boat survey at time of purchase 2 yrs ago,both on the hard and under sail. I was there for that and there were no problems. That was the last time they were touched. The macerator was briefly run during the sea trial. There doesn't appear to be any moisture at the valves. Previous owner also never opened the intake valve, so toilet has been misused for about 6 years. Not sure if it's a Par, but that's the only manual on board-will look for a label on the toilet this weekend. Only other observation is that the manual pump is not hard to work, like it sometimes can be when tank is full or vent is clogged.
I can't tell how full the tank is. It's black with no indicator. I called for a pump out in the slip since I didn't want to spill more sewage by moving the boat, and I was not present when they came to do it. I called afterwards but didn't really get a straight answer on how full it was. The first time it may very well have been full and the stuff in the bowl was a thick and smelly brown. I also noticed a brown caked on drip coming from the plate on the top of the tank later. The next time I don't think we could have filled the tank, since we were trying not to use it, but that doesn't mean it wasn't full from other sources. That time the bowl was full of urine smelling water. This last time, we haven't used it at all. Bowl water still smells like urine. I will thump the tank this weekend and try to remove the lid, if you think this is a good idea. All seacocks were inspected during the boat survey at time of purchase 2 yrs ago,both on the hard and under sail. I was there for that and there were no problems. That was the last time they were touched. The macerator was briefly run during the sea trial. There doesn't appear to be any moisture at the valves. Previous owner also never opened the intake valve, so toilet has been misused for about 6 years. Not sure if it's a Par, but that's the only manual on board-will look for a label on the toilet this weekend. Only other observation is that the manual pump is not hard to work, like it sometimes can be when tank is full or vent is clogged.
We need to TALK instead of type...
'Cuz I can think of half a dozen possibilities, but I have at least 10 questions for each one....we could spend the next week swapping forum posts without finding the answer. Email me (just click on my name at the left of this post to see a choice of PM or email...PULEEEZE use email!) so we can do that. Then we can post the results. I'd like to talk with you when you're on the boat...so we can check some things right then.
'Cuz I can think of half a dozen possibilities, but I have at least 10 questions for each one....we could spend the next week swapping forum posts without finding the answer. Email me (just click on my name at the left of this post to see a choice of PM or email...PULEEEZE use email!) so we can do that. Then we can post the results. I'd like to talk with you when you're on the boat...so we can check some things right then.
We were on a trip in a borrowed boat when we noticed that blackwater was backflowing into the bowl. With our wives scheduled to fly in the next day we ran to West Marine and purchased a joker valve replacement. Problem solved.
If I was to guess at the most probable answer, I would go with the Joker valve. This has made the biggest difference to the function of the head on my boat. I will be religiously replacing it on an annual basis and will keep a spare on board. The rest of the rubber seems to last longer but that little joker...
Hey guys...
If I was to guess at the most probable answer, I would go with the Joker valve.
And you'd be at least half wrong. Every one of you is only treating the symptom and ignoring the real problem.
Instead of only focusing on how to keep the back up out of the bowl, doncha think it would be a good idea to find out WHY the tank is filling up and overflowing when no one is aboard, even though all the seacocks are closed? That has the potential to sink he boat!
But hey...if she replaces the joker valve, at least the bowl would stay dry till the boat went down!:dance:
She and I are gonna talk Saturday morning when she's on the boat and can check out some things...and hopefully figure out what's happening...'cuz that's the first thing that has to be fixed. THEN we can focus on what the toilet needs.
Joker valves should be replaced annually...but not just to keep water out of the bowl. I've posted the real reason at least 3 x in the last month...search for "joker valve 101" in the body of my posts to find it.
If I was to guess at the most probable answer, I would go with the Joker valve.
And you'd be at least half wrong. Every one of you is only treating the symptom and ignoring the real problem.
Instead of only focusing on how to keep the back up out of the bowl, doncha think it would be a good idea to find out WHY the tank is filling up and overflowing when no one is aboard, even though all the seacocks are closed? That has the potential to sink he boat!
But hey...if she replaces the joker valve, at least the bowl would stay dry till the boat went down!:dance:
She and I are gonna talk Saturday morning when she's on the boat and can check out some things...and hopefully figure out what's happening...'cuz that's the first thing that has to be fixed. THEN we can focus on what the toilet needs.
Joker valves should be replaced annually...but not just to keep water out of the bowl. I've posted the real reason at least 3 x in the last month...search for "joker valve 101" in the body of my posts to find it.
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