I posted this question on another forum tonight and it was probably the wrong forum. Sorry. I have a jabsco marine head. I can empty the bowel dry but when I switch to the wet position to bring in water to the bowl nothing happens. It pumps easily and the residual water in the bowl sloshes a little bit but pumping does not bring in more water. I have the through hull open of course. It pumps easy but won't pull in water. Any ideas so I know where to start. Thanks. Mike
can't fill bowl
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It's not the joker valve
Whyizzit that joker valves are blamed for everything that can possible go wrong with a toilet??? The joker valve is in the toilet DISCHARGE fitting...it has nothing to do with flush water intake. It's the flapper valve at the top of the pump that has failed...very few of 'em survive the winter, especially if you left it in the dry mode over the winter. That puts a kink in it that prevents the pump from priming. The cure: replace the flapper valve. West Marine isn't likely to have it except as a part in a service kit that costs almost as much as a whole new toilet. I wouldn't do that. You can get one directly from Jabsco...but not in time to fix your toilet tomorrow. So I'm afraid you're gonna be pouring water into the bowl for one more week.
Whyizzit that joker valves are blamed for everything that can possible go wrong with a toilet??? The joker valve is in the toilet DISCHARGE fitting...it has nothing to do with flush water intake. It's the flapper valve at the top of the pump that has failed...very few of 'em survive the winter, especially if you left it in the dry mode over the winter. That puts a kink in it that prevents the pump from priming. The cure: replace the flapper valve. West Marine isn't likely to have it except as a part in a service kit that costs almost as much as a whole new toilet. I wouldn't do that. You can get one directly from Jabsco...but not in time to fix your toilet tomorrow. So I'm afraid you're gonna be pouring water into the bowl for one more week.
Wow. This just happened to me too.
While preparing the boat for the sailing season, I removed the pump shaft assembly by removing the 6 screws on the top. When lifting it out, an oblong piece of plastic with a large hole at one end and a curved corner at the other came out with the hook shaped piece on the switch. After lubricating the plunger with Teflon grease like I did last spring, I couldn't figure out how to get that oblong plastic piece back into the assembly. The instruction sheet does not have a detail, only an exploded parts list drawing. I finally figured out the only way it would fit, and that if the dry-wet switch is toggled, there was the familiar resistance during the transition. When I tried to pump water into the bowl, I had the same experience as Mike. The pump works easily but no water is pumped in the bowl. I don't remember what position the switch was in over the winter. Unfortunately I had not tried the pump before taking it apart. I'm going to take another look at it today, hoping that I have only reassemble it incorrectly. If not, I guess I will also have to wait to order the part Peggy talked about.
While preparing the boat for the sailing season, I removed the pump shaft assembly by removing the 6 screws on the top. When lifting it out, an oblong piece of plastic with a large hole at one end and a curved corner at the other came out with the hook shaped piece on the switch. After lubricating the plunger with Teflon grease like I did last spring, I couldn't figure out how to get that oblong plastic piece back into the assembly. The instruction sheet does not have a detail, only an exploded parts list drawing. I finally figured out the only way it would fit, and that if the dry-wet switch is toggled, there was the familiar resistance during the transition. When I tried to pump water into the bowl, I had the same experience as Mike. The pump works easily but no water is pumped in the bowl. I don't remember what position the switch was in over the winter. Unfortunately I had not tried the pump before taking it apart. I'm going to take another look at it today, hoping that I have only reassemble it incorrectly. If not, I guess I will also have to wait to order the part Peggy talked about.
Jabsco head problem
Same problem here. I found replacement at The Store Mason in Port Credit (Canada) for CAN$24.99. I guess some marine store carries them. The old flapper was expanded due to chemical or antifreeze. Now I only put chemical and antifreeze directly into the holding tank via the pumpout. The pump will be pumped dry, seacock open, and left in WET position in the winter. No more problem after that. I don't recall Jabsco mention that in the user guide.
Same problem here. I found replacement at The Store Mason in Port Credit (Canada) for CAN$24.99. I guess some marine store carries them. The old flapper was expanded due to chemical or antifreeze. Now I only put chemical and antifreeze directly into the holding tank via the pumpout. The pump will be pumped dry, seacock open, and left in WET position in the winter. No more problem after that. I don't recall Jabsco mention that in the user guide.
Dangerous way to winterize, Alex...
'Cuz the holding tank isn't the only part of the system that needs winterizing. Water expands when it freezes, so any water left in the intake line, pump, connection to the bowl, or any part of the plumbing that freezes can result in burst hose connections or cracked bowl or pump. What's more, pouring antifreeze down the pumpout doesn't guarantee that enough of it will get into the tank...if there are any bends or low spots in the pumpout line, that's where the antifreeze will sit. Pouring antifreeze into the bowl doesn't do much good either...'cuz nothing poured into the bowl is recirculated through the intake. The ONLY right way to winterize: close the intake seacock, remove the intake hose and stick it into a jug of antifreeze. Pump the whole jug through the system into the tank. Automotive antifreeze should never be used in any toilet, so if you use only non-toxic potable antifreeze--the "pink stuff"--it shouldn't damage in anything your pump. If it does, what y'all really need is a decent quality toilet. It'll cost you more to buy, but a lot less to maintain 'cuz you won't be buying parts every time you turn around, or--as many Jabsco owners do--replacing the whole pump every year.
'Cuz the holding tank isn't the only part of the system that needs winterizing. Water expands when it freezes, so any water left in the intake line, pump, connection to the bowl, or any part of the plumbing that freezes can result in burst hose connections or cracked bowl or pump. What's more, pouring antifreeze down the pumpout doesn't guarantee that enough of it will get into the tank...if there are any bends or low spots in the pumpout line, that's where the antifreeze will sit. Pouring antifreeze into the bowl doesn't do much good either...'cuz nothing poured into the bowl is recirculated through the intake. The ONLY right way to winterize: close the intake seacock, remove the intake hose and stick it into a jug of antifreeze. Pump the whole jug through the system into the tank. Automotive antifreeze should never be used in any toilet, so if you use only non-toxic potable antifreeze--the "pink stuff"--it shouldn't damage in anything your pump. If it does, what y'all really need is a decent quality toilet. It'll cost you more to buy, but a lot less to maintain 'cuz you won't be buying parts every time you turn around, or--as many Jabsco owners do--replacing the whole pump every year.
Peggy is right,....
of course (isn't she always?), about the "right" way to winterize your head system. But in my case, I do pour antifreeze into the bowl and pump it into my (recently) emptied holding tank. I normally do this the week the boat is going to be hauled for the winter. I then either leave the intake seacock open, or open it as soon as the boat is hauled, and all the water it may be holding drains out.
of course (isn't she always?), about the "right" way to winterize your head system. But in my case, I do pour antifreeze into the bowl and pump it into my (recently) emptied holding tank. I normally do this the week the boat is going to be hauled for the winter. I then either leave the intake seacock open, or open it as soon as the boat is hauled, and all the water it may be holding drains out.
All the water won't drain out, Warren
For instance, the water that's in the "down" line from the vented loop to the bowl. Most of it will drain into the bowl, but even a little left in the bowl spud can freeze and crack your bowl. Nor will any water left in the pump. Otoh, if the toilet is a Jabsco, that would give you an excuse to replace it with decent toilet if you need a better one than than you already have.
For instance, the water that's in the "down" line from the vented loop to the bowl. Most of it will drain into the bowl, but even a little left in the bowl spud can freeze and crack your bowl. Nor will any water left in the pump. Otoh, if the toilet is a Jabsco, that would give you an excuse to replace it with decent toilet if you need a better one than than you already have.
I have been lucky all these years
I have always poured the antifreeze into the bowl and pumped until it was gone. This is my first problem with the Jabsco. I took another look yesterday and it appears that the upper gasket is a little deformed. I ordered one on the Internet for $13.95 plus shipping. I have space and height restrictions that would be a major job replacing the Jabsco with a more expensive model. What Peggy says about pumping from the water intake makes sense. I'll go the extra effort in the fall. Peggy, if you are still reading this thread; Do I remember you saying to add Teflon grease to the plunger every spring? That means taking the pump assembly apart. Can you recommend any precautions in dis-assembly and reassembly?
I have always poured the antifreeze into the bowl and pumped until it was gone. This is my first problem with the Jabsco. I took another look yesterday and it appears that the upper gasket is a little deformed. I ordered one on the Internet for $13.95 plus shipping. I have space and height restrictions that would be a major job replacing the Jabsco with a more expensive model. What Peggy says about pumping from the water intake makes sense. I'll go the extra effort in the fall. Peggy, if you are still reading this thread; Do I remember you saying to add Teflon grease to the plunger every spring? That means taking the pump assembly apart. Can you recommend any precautions in dis-assembly and reassembly?
Jabscos, flappers, and winterization
I’ve fixed 2 Jabscos with this identical symptom in the last 2 weeks. Both were on our 2005 Hunter 41. Yup, required the flapper valve being replaced. It’s the valve at the top under those 6 screws. The fix is extremely easy. Can be done in under 5 minutes and is instantly rewarding. Be sure to have the wet/dry valve in the wet position when you remove the top cover, then it won’t catch the old valve gasket and seal as you remove it, and you will see exactly how it is all laid out before doing anything. My 2-cents worth on winterizing these Jabscos: For the past 2 winters on this new boat, I did everything I thought I should—-I took off the intake hoses at the thru-hulls and pumped pink a/f through everything. The valve gaskets I just replaced looked deformed all over (not just at the flapper valve). Whatever is in that pink a/f, I don't think Jabsco rubber likes sitting in it for 4 months. From now on, I am no longer going to pump a/f via the intake hose in to the top pump area of these Jabscos. I will drain the hoses and dry out the pump. My last boat had a Jabsco, which I always winterized the Warren way. That is, I only poured some a/f in the bowl and pumped in to holding tank, and I never put any in via the intake hose and into to the top area of the pump where the flapper valve is. That Jabsco lasted 7 years with no interim repair (Chesapeake Bay winters). My only lubing was occasional small doses of baby oil via the bowl. I'm now trying SuperLube.
I’ve fixed 2 Jabscos with this identical symptom in the last 2 weeks. Both were on our 2005 Hunter 41. Yup, required the flapper valve being replaced. It’s the valve at the top under those 6 screws. The fix is extremely easy. Can be done in under 5 minutes and is instantly rewarding. Be sure to have the wet/dry valve in the wet position when you remove the top cover, then it won’t catch the old valve gasket and seal as you remove it, and you will see exactly how it is all laid out before doing anything. My 2-cents worth on winterizing these Jabscos: For the past 2 winters on this new boat, I did everything I thought I should—-I took off the intake hoses at the thru-hulls and pumped pink a/f through everything. The valve gaskets I just replaced looked deformed all over (not just at the flapper valve). Whatever is in that pink a/f, I don't think Jabsco rubber likes sitting in it for 4 months. From now on, I am no longer going to pump a/f via the intake hose in to the top pump area of these Jabscos. I will drain the hoses and dry out the pump. My last boat had a Jabsco, which I always winterized the Warren way. That is, I only poured some a/f in the bowl and pumped in to holding tank, and I never put any in via the intake hose and into to the top area of the pump where the flapper valve is. That Jabsco lasted 7 years with no interim repair (Chesapeake Bay winters). My only lubing was occasional small doses of baby oil via the bowl. I'm now trying SuperLube.
No need to dissassemble the pump, Ken...
Just take the top off it and stick the "nose" on the tube of grease into the pump. As for fitting a PH II into your space...check out the dimensions of the PHC, which is the same pump, but on a compact base to fit in a tighter space.
Just take the top off it and stick the "nose" on the tube of grease into the pump. As for fitting a PH II into your space...check out the dimensions of the PHC, which is the same pump, but on a compact base to fit in a tighter space.
I had same problem Jasco sent new flapper/spring
I called Jasco after 2 new kits in 3 years. They sent a new flapper and a spring to install. Works great the last 2 years. Mark
I called Jasco after 2 new kits in 3 years. They sent a new flapper and a spring to install. Works great the last 2 years. Mark
Dragonfly, what spring?
I see in the parts list blow-up that there is a spring in the pump assembly on the plunger rod. At least that is the way it looks in the drawing. When I pump up and down, you can hear and feel the top of the plunger making contact with the housing. I tried the same test on a display model at West Marine and it sounded the same. You would think that a spring would dampen the motion. Peggy, I downloaded the specs and drawings for the PH II, but need to re-check the clearance from the bottom of the head base to a teak seat that flips down over the head in the Hunter 33.5. This seat is used if you shower. That brings up a question: The manual for the PH II says to not get the outside of the toilet wet with a shower in the head. Huh? I would also have to drill new holes for mounting and think of a way to re-route the water intake. The Jabsco is on the rear and the PH II is in the front. Maybe some elbows. Comments??? On the Jabsco pump, there is am oblong plastic piece with a large hole at one end and a curved corner at the other. Does this piece just lay on the gasket over the left hand little flapper? I can't quite figure out what that flapper does. I see that the flapper on the right will seal the water intake with the switch in the dry position. Re-thinking as I am typing, it doesn't sound right. I think I will take a photo today and post later.
I see in the parts list blow-up that there is a spring in the pump assembly on the plunger rod. At least that is the way it looks in the drawing. When I pump up and down, you can hear and feel the top of the plunger making contact with the housing. I tried the same test on a display model at West Marine and it sounded the same. You would think that a spring would dampen the motion. Peggy, I downloaded the specs and drawings for the PH II, but need to re-check the clearance from the bottom of the head base to a teak seat that flips down over the head in the Hunter 33.5. This seat is used if you shower. That brings up a question: The manual for the PH II says to not get the outside of the toilet wet with a shower in the head. Huh? I would also have to drill new holes for mounting and think of a way to re-route the water intake. The Jabsco is on the rear and the PH II is in the front. Maybe some elbows. Comments??? On the Jabsco pump, there is am oblong plastic piece with a large hole at one end and a curved corner at the other. Does this piece just lay on the gasket over the left hand little flapper? I can't quite figure out what that flapper does. I see that the flapper on the right will seal the water intake with the switch in the dry position. Re-thinking as I am typing, it doesn't sound right. I think I will take a photo today and post later.
You misread the PH II instructions, Ken...
And so did I till I read it the third time. It's the PHE II--the electric version of the PH II, not the manual PH II, that should not be exposed to shower or other external water 'cuz the motor is exposed and water isn't good for electric motors. Actually, no electric toilet should be in a head that doubles as a shower unless the base is sealed so that water can't get under it and cause corrosion. Since you'd have to reroute the head intake hose anyway, that would be a good time to reroute it to tee into the head sink drain. As for your shower seat, if the "standard" bowl for the PH II is too tall to drop the shower seat all the way down, check the height of the toilet without the lid. Or...what's wrong with sitting on the lid when If even the smaller "standard" bowl PH II is too high to allow the teak shower seat come all the way down, check to see if removing the toilet seat lid will add enough space. If it won't, would it kill you to shower sitting on the toilet with the lid closed instead of dropping the teak seat? I'm not sure what parts in the Jabsco you're referring to...Can you give me the part numbers for 'em on the exploded drawing? http://www.jabsco.com/files/29090_29120_toilets_0406_data_sheet.pdf If I know which parts you mean, I should be able to tell you what they do.
And so did I till I read it the third time. It's the PHE II--the electric version of the PH II, not the manual PH II, that should not be exposed to shower or other external water 'cuz the motor is exposed and water isn't good for electric motors. Actually, no electric toilet should be in a head that doubles as a shower unless the base is sealed so that water can't get under it and cause corrosion. Since you'd have to reroute the head intake hose anyway, that would be a good time to reroute it to tee into the head sink drain. As for your shower seat, if the "standard" bowl for the PH II is too tall to drop the shower seat all the way down, check the height of the toilet without the lid. Or...what's wrong with sitting on the lid when If even the smaller "standard" bowl PH II is too high to allow the teak shower seat come all the way down, check to see if removing the toilet seat lid will add enough space. If it won't, would it kill you to shower sitting on the toilet with the lid closed instead of dropping the teak seat? I'm not sure what parts in the Jabsco you're referring to...Can you give me the part numbers for 'em on the exploded drawing? http://www.jabsco.com/files/29090_29120_toilets_0406_data_sheet.pdf If I know which parts you mean, I should be able to tell you what they do.
A word about Jabsco service
Thanks Peggy for the suggestions. Unfortunately, the head sink is not in the same space as the head toilet. On my model Hunter (33.5) the sink is on the port side and the head is on the starboard side. Thanks for clearing up the question about not getting the outside of the toilet wet. Makes sense not to expose electrical parts to moisture. I didn't make it down to the boat yesterday to take pictures or measure the space between toilet base and drop down teak shower seat, When I started inputting to this thread, I also contacted Jabsco service through the contact page on their website. I received an answer the next business day from Technical Specialist David Caldwell. He asked for my address and said he is sending a Top Valve gasket retrofit kit which will resolve the issue of water not being drawn into the bowl. I can't ask for any faster or better service then that. On to your part number question: The small plastic part is item 19, Top Cam Seat. This fits on top of the item 21, Top Valve Gasket. I have already ordered the gasket on-line through a company in Washington and will have it next Tuesday or Wednesday. In the mean time, I will probably get the retrofit kit sooner from Jabsco. I will update this saga when parts arrive. Thanks for your comments Peggy.
Thanks Peggy for the suggestions. Unfortunately, the head sink is not in the same space as the head toilet. On my model Hunter (33.5) the sink is on the port side and the head is on the starboard side. Thanks for clearing up the question about not getting the outside of the toilet wet. Makes sense not to expose electrical parts to moisture. I didn't make it down to the boat yesterday to take pictures or measure the space between toilet base and drop down teak shower seat, When I started inputting to this thread, I also contacted Jabsco service through the contact page on their website. I received an answer the next business day from Technical Specialist David Caldwell. He asked for my address and said he is sending a Top Valve gasket retrofit kit which will resolve the issue of water not being drawn into the bowl. I can't ask for any faster or better service then that. On to your part number question: The small plastic part is item 19, Top Cam Seat. This fits on top of the item 21, Top Valve Gasket. I have already ordered the gasket on-line through a company in Washington and will have it next Tuesday or Wednesday. In the mean time, I will probably get the retrofit kit sooner from Jabsco. I will update this saga when parts arrive. Thanks for your comments Peggy.
Deteriorated valves may be from vinegar
We have had to have flapper valves on a Jabsco head pump replaced twice in the last three years (boat new in 2004). They were obviously deformed by something, i.e. either vinegar or antifreese (same a/f as used in fresh water system). Jabsco technical says that judicious use of vinegar should not bother the valves. Never asked them about antifreeze. The first year we used vinegar when securing after each sail and left it in the head and discharge line. We were more cautious the second year but still had to replace the flapper valve again. The third year used vinegar vey sparingly,and never left the bowl or discharge line unflushed(with fresh water)when securing the bowl after sailing. No problem this past year even with use of antifreeze. I suspect that vinegar is the culpret not withstanding the opinion of Jabsco's tech guy. Will continue to use it but never leaving it in the bowl and discharge hose i.e. always flushing out with fresh after a sail. Comments Peggie?
We have had to have flapper valves on a Jabsco head pump replaced twice in the last three years (boat new in 2004). They were obviously deformed by something, i.e. either vinegar or antifreese (same a/f as used in fresh water system). Jabsco technical says that judicious use of vinegar should not bother the valves. Never asked them about antifreeze. The first year we used vinegar when securing after each sail and left it in the head and discharge line. We were more cautious the second year but still had to replace the flapper valve again. The third year used vinegar vey sparingly,and never left the bowl or discharge line unflushed(with fresh water)when securing the bowl after sailing. No problem this past year even with use of antifreeze. I suspect that vinegar is the culpret not withstanding the opinion of Jabsco's tech guy. Will continue to use it but never leaving it in the bowl and discharge hose i.e. always flushing out with fresh after a sail. Comments Peggie?
Vinegar will cause soft rubber to swell and distort
if left to soak in it. That's why it should always be flushed all the way through the system, NEVER left sitting in the bowl or pump. The only reason to use vinegar is to prevent sea water mineral buildup in the head discharge horse...it does no good whatever to leave it sitting in the bowl or pump, but it can do damage. A cupful, flushed ALL the way through to the tank in the toilet dry mode just before the boat will sit leaves enough of it clinging to the inside of the hose to do the job it's intended to do.
if left to soak in it. That's why it should always be flushed all the way through the system, NEVER left sitting in the bowl or pump. The only reason to use vinegar is to prevent sea water mineral buildup in the head discharge horse...it does no good whatever to leave it sitting in the bowl or pump, but it can do damage. A cupful, flushed ALL the way through to the tank in the toilet dry mode just before the boat will sit leaves enough of it clinging to the inside of the hose to do the job it's intended to do.
Vinegar
Peggy: When you flush any fluid thru the system of a manual head (in the dry mode) when securing after a sail, doesn't that action always leave some small quantity of the fluid coating the rubber pump flapper valve, and a little sitting in the bottom of the toilet bowl? And wouldn't flushing thru the fluid (vinegar) with fresh water, defeat the use of vinegar i.e. to leave some vinegar coating the walls of the discharge hose/pipe? We try to solve this dilema by using vinegar at the beginning of the sailing day or weekend (we are almost always weekend sailors), so vinegar will work on the salts for a day or two but it is flushed upon securing the boat That way it will not be on the rubber parts for any longer than one/two days. We have never been able to pump the bowl completely dry in the dry mode. It seems to me that if vinegar, in even small quantities, remains in the bottom of the bowl, then vinegar is still coating the pump flapper valve We understood this was the way the system worked. Are we missing something here?
Peggy: When you flush any fluid thru the system of a manual head (in the dry mode) when securing after a sail, doesn't that action always leave some small quantity of the fluid coating the rubber pump flapper valve, and a little sitting in the bottom of the toilet bowl? And wouldn't flushing thru the fluid (vinegar) with fresh water, defeat the use of vinegar i.e. to leave some vinegar coating the walls of the discharge hose/pipe? We try to solve this dilema by using vinegar at the beginning of the sailing day or weekend (we are almost always weekend sailors), so vinegar will work on the salts for a day or two but it is flushed upon securing the boat That way it will not be on the rubber parts for any longer than one/two days. We have never been able to pump the bowl completely dry in the dry mode. It seems to me that if vinegar, in even small quantities, remains in the bottom of the bowl, then vinegar is still coating the pump flapper valve We understood this was the way the system worked. Are we missing something here?
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