Candles
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Almost anything does when it burns
In a small enclosed space a burning candle will eventually use up all the available oxygen and anyone or animal in that space will be asphixiated. But they would pass out from all the CO2 first.
In a small enclosed space a burning candle will eventually use up all the available oxygen and anyone or animal in that space will be asphixiated. But they would pass out from all the CO2 first.
Probably a Good Idea, Then...?
...to leave a hatch open when sleeping at night with a candle or oil lamp burning? I usually leave a screen in the companionway opening with the hatch top pulled back, as well as a port open in the aft berth (our berth) that's protected by the dodger.
...to leave a hatch open when sleeping at night with a candle or oil lamp burning? I usually leave a screen in the companionway opening with the hatch top pulled back, as well as a port open in the aft berth (our berth) that's protected by the dodger.
Other Ventilation
People produce CO2 and in a closed box would suffocate. But my boat has vents that provide enough air for people and a lamp or candle. When we are cooking we open a hatch. Check you ventilation and you may have enough without resorting to an open hatch. My boat has a vent near the bow, a dorade box serving the head and main cabin and two vents in the stern that go to the bilge near the engine. Also my main hatch has a significant gap above the top of the hatch board. But by all means if in doubt open a hatch.
People produce CO2 and in a closed box would suffocate. But my boat has vents that provide enough air for people and a lamp or candle. When we are cooking we open a hatch. Check you ventilation and you may have enough without resorting to an open hatch. My boat has a vent near the bow, a dorade box serving the head and main cabin and two vents in the stern that go to the bilge near the engine. Also my main hatch has a significant gap above the top of the hatch board. But by all means if in doubt open a hatch.
CO is the one to worry about
Small point, but Carbon Monoxide (CO) is the the combustion byproduct that should be worried about. While Carbon Dioxide (CO2) isn't good - in large quantities) - CO can kill. As noted, people exhale CO2. As a general note, I hate candles. They frequently stink, they generate a sooty smoke, they can tip over and (at best) dribble wax all over or (at worst) set your world on fire. Good Luck! Tim Brogan April IV C350 #68 Seattle
Small point, but Carbon Monoxide (CO) is the the combustion byproduct that should be worried about. While Carbon Dioxide (CO2) isn't good - in large quantities) - CO can kill. As noted, people exhale CO2. As a general note, I hate candles. They frequently stink, they generate a sooty smoke, they can tip over and (at best) dribble wax all over or (at worst) set your world on fire. Good Luck! Tim Brogan April IV C350 #68 Seattle
The reason I ask
Is because I'm looking for something to give a little help in warming the cabin. I like it warm and that's why I live in the south, but what I would call warm you would call hot. I bought a large round candle and a large round candle holder for it. It has 4 wicks on it and produces a decent about of heat....maybe enough to keep the cabin just above a chill here in the south. I also bought two oil lanterns but those are more for night sailing and anchoring. I've been thinking about getting a steel pipe and funell the exhaust from the candles into the pipe and run the pipe out a hatch. If I could get a pipe that had bends in it, that would help trap more heat and heat the pipe up more. Last night when it got down to 51, I thought I would see how the candle did in keeping the cabin warm (simulating an anchoring by not running the heater). Then I realized I didn't have a CO/CO2 detector so that's the reason for the post. I didn't burn the candle and the cabin stayed at 66 degrees. However, I did have the charger, water heater, and laptop running so it's not a true anchoring test.
Is because I'm looking for something to give a little help in warming the cabin. I like it warm and that's why I live in the south, but what I would call warm you would call hot. I bought a large round candle and a large round candle holder for it. It has 4 wicks on it and produces a decent about of heat....maybe enough to keep the cabin just above a chill here in the south. I also bought two oil lanterns but those are more for night sailing and anchoring. I've been thinking about getting a steel pipe and funell the exhaust from the candles into the pipe and run the pipe out a hatch. If I could get a pipe that had bends in it, that would help trap more heat and heat the pipe up more. Last night when it got down to 51, I thought I would see how the candle did in keeping the cabin warm (simulating an anchoring by not running the heater). Then I realized I didn't have a CO/CO2 detector so that's the reason for the post. I didn't burn the candle and the cabin stayed at 66 degrees. However, I did have the charger, water heater, and laptop running so it's not a true anchoring test.
Buy a CO Detector
The amount of CO produced seems to depend on the chemical makeup of the candle, the quality (ie heat) of the combustion and the amount of airflow. Why not just spring for a battery powered CO detector, found at any hardware store?
The amount of CO produced seems to depend on the chemical makeup of the candle, the quality (ie heat) of the combustion and the amount of airflow. Why not just spring for a battery powered CO detector, found at any hardware store?
Franklin, heating like that is
just camping out. Dangerous and ineffective at best. Deadly at worst. Get a vented marine heater. Your call. Several out there. In the meantime maybe you can warm up your engine, shut it down and leave the cover open to the main cabin, maybe. I'm not sure of your boats layout.
just camping out. Dangerous and ineffective at best. Deadly at worst. Get a vented marine heater. Your call. Several out there. In the meantime maybe you can warm up your engine, shut it down and leave the cover open to the main cabin, maybe. I'm not sure of your boats layout.
Coleman Lantern
A coleman lantern the type that uses the little nylon bag puts out a lot of heat. They are supposed to be very efficent putting out almost no CO. They get very hot but will burn most of the night on about a pint of fuel. I agree with Fred that if you are going to be using a heater regularly get a proper marine stove. Also water is a product of combustion so anything you burn will increase condensation. I came upon th ecoleman lantern during an early spring sailing trip that turned very cold. We had the lantern because the oys wanted to fish. But the girls were so cold that we brought the lantern below and it heated the 26' boat very well. I turned it off before going to sleep and left the hatch partially opened.
A coleman lantern the type that uses the little nylon bag puts out a lot of heat. They are supposed to be very efficent putting out almost no CO. They get very hot but will burn most of the night on about a pint of fuel. I agree with Fred that if you are going to be using a heater regularly get a proper marine stove. Also water is a product of combustion so anything you burn will increase condensation. I came upon th ecoleman lantern during an early spring sailing trip that turned very cold. We had the lantern because the oys wanted to fish. But the girls were so cold that we brought the lantern below and it heated the 26' boat very well. I turned it off before going to sleep and left the hatch partially opened.
Franklin, lots of discussions already
about heaters and boat heating. I know you're a vet of this board, and maybe you have used the archives, but, if not, suggest looking under "heaters" or "heating." As I've previously posted, we bought a catalytic heater at a sporting goods store that does a great job of keeping the chill off here in SF'S cold 57 degree water. We also use our trawler lamp. Our dorades keep enough fresh air flowing, and even when it's cold outside (31F last February) we always keep the slider open even if the hatchboards are in. We never run any kind of heating when we're asleep or not down below. On our old C25 we used the inverted flower pot, which is still a great idea. Stu
about heaters and boat heating. I know you're a vet of this board, and maybe you have used the archives, but, if not, suggest looking under "heaters" or "heating." As I've previously posted, we bought a catalytic heater at a sporting goods store that does a great job of keeping the chill off here in SF'S cold 57 degree water. We also use our trawler lamp. Our dorades keep enough fresh air flowing, and even when it's cold outside (31F last February) we always keep the slider open even if the hatchboards are in. We never run any kind of heating when we're asleep or not down below. On our old C25 we used the inverted flower pot, which is still a great idea. Stu
Thanks all
Yes, I do know I need a CO detector...I just forget every time I go to the store. I also know there has been a lot of talk about heaters. I do have a marine heater that runs off 110 volts. I also have a generator that can run that thing. However, I was just thinking that I didn't need to run all that for just a few degrees while at anchor. I also don't like to run the generator while I'm down below...espeically the aft cabin where I normally sleep. I was just looking for a non-electrical source of heat. As for air circulation...I have two scoopers on deck that even if it's blowing 15 knots outside and they are facing it, I don't feel anything down below from them...even if I put my hand under them. I wonder if they are just designed wrong.
Yes, I do know I need a CO detector...I just forget every time I go to the store. I also know there has been a lot of talk about heaters. I do have a marine heater that runs off 110 volts. I also have a generator that can run that thing. However, I was just thinking that I didn't need to run all that for just a few degrees while at anchor. I also don't like to run the generator while I'm down below...espeically the aft cabin where I normally sleep. I was just looking for a non-electrical source of heat. As for air circulation...I have two scoopers on deck that even if it's blowing 15 knots outside and they are facing it, I don't feel anything down below from them...even if I put my hand under them. I wonder if they are just designed wrong.
Can you trust it while you sleep?
I don't like sleeping with any kind of fire burning, I just don't trust it. You may be sure the candle isn't making CO, but that's going to depend on how it is combusting. What's the wax made of? What's the wick made of? Do I really want to know? There were a number of candles imported into the US and recalled some time ago because the maker was using lead wires in the wicks, so they would "neatly" melt away and not need trimming. Ooops, they put vaporized lead in the air. Do I want to verify the lead content of the candles I sleep with?<G> Easier to just use them for light or decoration, and use a heater for heat. If you must, use the throw-away heat packs (cheap if you buy a box at Costco, etc.) or the ones you can "recharge" by boiling in water. And pass on the alcohol heaters, they emit so much moisture you'll wake up covered in it. Literally. I'd rather use a flashlight for light, and a blanket for heat. If you've ever been to a burn ward...you get a new appreciation for why it is't good to sleep around a fire. Even a small "safe" neatly contained one.
I don't like sleeping with any kind of fire burning, I just don't trust it. You may be sure the candle isn't making CO, but that's going to depend on how it is combusting. What's the wax made of? What's the wick made of? Do I really want to know? There were a number of candles imported into the US and recalled some time ago because the maker was using lead wires in the wicks, so they would "neatly" melt away and not need trimming. Ooops, they put vaporized lead in the air. Do I want to verify the lead content of the candles I sleep with?<G> Easier to just use them for light or decoration, and use a heater for heat. If you must, use the throw-away heat packs (cheap if you buy a box at Costco, etc.) or the ones you can "recharge" by boiling in water. And pass on the alcohol heaters, they emit so much moisture you'll wake up covered in it. Literally. I'd rather use a flashlight for light, and a blanket for heat. If you've ever been to a burn ward...you get a new appreciation for why it is't good to sleep around a fire. Even a small "safe" neatly contained one.
Franklin, concerning your ventilation,
you can't blow fresh air into a box if you don't have a means to let some air out.You say you have two scuppers to allow fresh air in, Do you have a vent facing aft to let air out? For each air inlet you need an air outlet. Try this get a smallish box and attach a short length of hose to the box and then tape the box shut. Then with your mouth blow into the hose, briefly and quickly take the hose from your mouth. you will probably feel a littl puff of air coming from the hose. Next cut a small hole in the box and repeat the blowing into the hose. You can't build up a back pressure. Therefore you can blow fresh air into the box. Tape the hole shut and place an incense stick in the box and tape the box shut again. you won't smell the incense if the box is sealed. Blow into the hose you may get some incense oder back through the hose. Next pull the tape off the hole you cut and blow in the hose. you should get smoke out the cut hole.
you can't blow fresh air into a box if you don't have a means to let some air out.You say you have two scuppers to allow fresh air in, Do you have a vent facing aft to let air out? For each air inlet you need an air outlet. Try this get a smallish box and attach a short length of hose to the box and then tape the box shut. Then with your mouth blow into the hose, briefly and quickly take the hose from your mouth. you will probably feel a littl puff of air coming from the hose. Next cut a small hole in the box and repeat the blowing into the hose. You can't build up a back pressure. Therefore you can blow fresh air into the box. Tape the hole shut and place an incense stick in the box and tape the box shut again. you won't smell the incense if the box is sealed. Blow into the hose you may get some incense oder back through the hose. Next pull the tape off the hole you cut and blow in the hose. you should get smoke out the cut hole.
Hey Franklin......
"I've been thinking about getting a steel pipe and funell the exhaust from the candles into the pipe and run the pipe out a hatch. If I could get a pipe that had bends in it, that would help trap more heat and heat the pipe up more." ....If you work that out, make sure to post a picture of it. I'm sure that I'm not the only one that would enjoy seeing it. Thanks! Tim
"I've been thinking about getting a steel pipe and funell the exhaust from the candles into the pipe and run the pipe out a hatch. If I could get a pipe that had bends in it, that would help trap more heat and heat the pipe up more." ....If you work that out, make sure to post a picture of it. I'm sure that I'm not the only one that would enjoy seeing it. Thanks! Tim
I think that you have the equivilant of two window
in one room at one end of the house and you are trying to ventilate the rooms down the hall. What is in the space between the cabin top and the underside of the deck? You can't open the windows in the attic and ventilate the basement. A little duct work may be needed to bring the air into the cabin.
in one room at one end of the house and you are trying to ventilate the rooms down the hall. What is in the space between the cabin top and the underside of the deck? You can't open the windows in the attic and ventilate the basement. A little duct work may be needed to bring the air into the cabin.
Franklin, aren't you planning an extended cruise?
This should be high on your list of things to fix. Just because somebody designed it and somebody else built it and you bought it, doesn't make it worth keeping if it don't work. Study the proven designs and adapt one for your boat.
This should be high on your list of things to fix. Just because somebody designed it and somebody else built it and you bought it, doesn't make it worth keeping if it don't work. Study the proven designs and adapt one for your boat.
Your right Ross
Tomorrow I'm going to find something to glue to the top of the cover to act as a barrier....or...I might go with another sailor's advice and put in an exhaust fan someplace so both scoopers are input air and it will vent all the way to the exhaust fan. He said he did it on his old boat because it didn't have AC and he needed venting on rainny days. He said he used little battery opperated fans. The more and more I think about it, the more I like his idea. It would guarentee that the air is circulating throughout the boat. I just have to figure out where to put the exhaust fan.
Tomorrow I'm going to find something to glue to the top of the cover to act as a barrier....or...I might go with another sailor's advice and put in an exhaust fan someplace so both scoopers are input air and it will vent all the way to the exhaust fan. He said he did it on his old boat because it didn't have AC and he needed venting on rainny days. He said he used little battery opperated fans. The more and more I think about it, the more I like his idea. It would guarentee that the air is circulating throughout the boat. I just have to figure out where to put the exhaust fan.
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