Canadians- Grey water in Canada?

[Roger Long]

I've been taking an online course and quiz today to get my Canadian Pleasure Craft Operators Card so I can spend more than 45 days north of the border. The course said in one section that discharge of galley sink and shower water is prohibited in Canadian waters. Is this true and do most Canadian boats have their sinks and showers plumbed to the holding tank? I thought Canada was generally more relaxed on discharge issues.

Another interesting thing that I learned is that fire buckets required on larger vessels (it didn't tell me how large) must be of special design. They must have round bottoms, like half a ball, and a hole in the bottom so that they won't hold water. I never heard of such a thing.

Other interesting tid bits:

After a long list of things which are good to carry aboard a boat such as first aid kits, etc. it said:

As required, other equipment could be added to this basic material, including a pole or a communications system. It could also include a magnetic compass to assist the operator in determining direction, but the operator must be aware of any nearby metallic or electrical devices, which are likely to distort readings from the compass.

I think a compass would be good.

Rumor down here has been that Canada has very strict requirements about having a complete set of the largest scale paper charts for the area in which you are operating. I was relieved therefore to read:

If you are the owner or operator of a vessel less than 100 tons, you are not required to have the charts, documents and publications onboard as long as you have sufficient knowledge of:

* The location and character of charted shipping routes, lights, buoys and marks, and navigational hazards; and
* The prevailing navigational conditions, taking into account such factors as tides, currents, ice and weather patterns.

I presume a chart plotter and electronic charts would fulfill this requirement. I would still want to have paper charts aboard but its nice to have some flexibility in scale and not be in violation of a regulation because the largest scale edition of some area you are passing wasn't available.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Gray water holding in Canada

It's required in some inland lakes, but not required in any coastal waters...and neither is toilet waste holding required in any Canadian coastal waters...only in the Great Lakes, Champlain and most, if not all, the inland waters of Ontario.

You need to pay close attention to what applies in which province...'cuz unlike the US, theirs can vary province to province. Ontario has much stricter rules than the Maritimes.

 

[Bruce J]

What Peggy said is correct. You can pump overboard any where along the coast. The one exception is the Bras d'or Lakes in Cape Breton. As of this year it is a no discharge zone. You either have to have a holding tank for black water or a sewage treatment system.
Your boat is not required to have a fire bucket as it is not over 39'4". My boat has to have two buckets and a fire axe.

 

[joker460]

That's interesting, as I know personally of no boat here at our dock that has the sink and shower plumbed to a holding tank. Only the toilet is plumbed to a holding tank and the overboard discharge Y needs to be disconnected or locked off while in the Great Lakes.

They have changed the test for Canadian Pleasure Craft Operators Card starting April 15 2011. You have to complete an online test of aprrox 3 hours in duration. Then take the online Exam.

Also if you ever come into the Toronto Harbour Area you also need a Harbour License. It consists of 300 multiple choice questions plus a practical test. Most people don't have it, but if the Harbour Police board your vessel they will ask for it.

Now if you have completed a CYA sailing coarse, you only have to pay for the Canadian Pleasure Craft Operators Card and not take the exam.

 

[Roger Long]

My boat has to have two buckets and a fire axe.

Is it true that the fire buckets have to be unable to hold water or sit flat upon a surface?

 

[Bruce J]

I don't know about not holding water but an official fire bucket has a round bottom and will not stand upright. I talked to Transport Canada on Saturday and they said just having two dedicated buckets would please them for a pleasure boat.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Just tiny semantic correction.

What Peggy said is correct. You can pump overboard any where along the coast. The one exception is the Bras d'or Lakes in Cape Breton. As of this year it is a no discharge zone. You either have to have a holding tank for black water or a sewage treatment system.

Any waters in which the discharge of TREATED waste from an approved (in the US that means USCG certified) onboard system are NOT "no discharge" waters. "No discharge" means NO discharge, treated or not...holding tank only.

It's a small bit of semantics, but it can result in people mistakenly being told they can't use an installed treatment device when in fact they can. Enough of that happens here...it's amazing how many people don't know that treatment devices exist, and because they don't, they assume that "can't flush the toilet directly overboard any more" and "no discharge" mean the same thing.

 

[Scott B]

Roger, sounds like this on-line course has a hole in the bottom ....


It has been "suggested" by an environemntal group that grey water should be pumped to holding tank, it is not a requirement.

Fire buckets are only required over 39' as abvoe and only suggestion is to be 10 litres. No mention of holes, round bottom etc. Transport Canada Rescue / Distress equipment

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

If you're asking me about fire buckets...

Is it true that the fire buckets have to be unable to hold water or sit flat upon a surface?

I'm having a hard enough time with a particular sink drain installation...I don't know NUFFIN' 'bout no fire buckets, Miss Scarlett! (You have to be literate enough to have read "Gone With the Wind" to get it.)

However, I really would like to know the answer to that question and reasons for it.

 

[Tricia]

There are, in fact, no discharge zones on the west coast,

though at this point, they apply only to black water.
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/wat/wq/nps/NPS_Pollution/boating/Boating_Main.htm

It seems to be common practice for saltwater boaters to use holding tanks if they have them, at the dock and at anchor, and pump out in deeper water with more tidal action if there are no pumpout stations nearby. Washington State is way ahead of us on pumpout facilities.

When I took my pleasurecraft operators' exam it was stupid easy. I understand they've made it a little more challenging now.

Fair winds,

Tricia
Freedom 30 "Muse II"
Vancouver, BC

 

[Roger Long]

However, I really would like to know the answer to that question and reasons for it.

I suspect this is one of those regulations that might still be on the books or in some outmoded set of standards and the course writer simple repeated it.

It would make some sense to require a fire bucket to be unusable for any other purpose so that it won't be holding waste oil or soaking a crew members socks and shirts when needed. A small weep hole wouldn't impair it's usefulness for firefighting significantly nor would a round bottom the prevented it from holding water when set down. Both features would make it useless for any purpose that would tempt the crew to remove it from its designated position.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

That makes sense...

And yes, there are indeed a few NDZs in BC coastal waters...I believe they're limited to provincial park anchorages...so far.

 

[w4pyleii]

I'm in lake superior and my boat currently has a porta-potty. Does that count as a holding tank or...? I was hoping i could sail in canadian waters since i don't have any overboard discharge, but some people have told me i can't use a porta potty in canada.

 

[Scott B]

From Transport Canada Visitor Information


Portable Toilets
Portable toilets are illegal on Ontario waters.

The owner of a pleasure craft shall ensure that each toilet and the holding tank(s) is/are installed so that;

• The toilet and equipment are connected in such a manner that the equipment receives all toilet waste from the toilet.
• Equipment designed for the storage of human excrement is provided with a deck fitting and such connecting piping as is necessary for the removal of toilet waste by shore-based pumping equipment.
• No means of removal of toilet waste is provided other than the means mentioned above.
• All parts of the system for removal of toilet waste are congruent with one another and the boat.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Technically, no...but...

I'm in lake superior and my boat currently has a porta-potty. Does that count as a holding tank or...? I was hoping i could sail in canadian waters since i don't have any overboard discharge, but some people have told me i can't use a porta potty in canada.

As Scott noted, portable portapotties aren't allowed in Ontario. However, in 20 + years I've yet to hear of a single transient US flagged boat that was cited for having a portapotty or turned back at the border if on a trailer because it had one.

However, you could simplify your own life AND make your boat 100% compliant with both US and Canadian regs by replacing your portable unit with a 5-6 gal MSD version ("MSD" portapotties are designed to be permanently installed and are fitted for pumpout). The only plumbing required is a pumpout line and a vent line...and you CAN remove the tank and carry it ashore if you have to. All the advantages of a marine toilet and holding tank without any of the maintenance or loss of storage space. Check out the Thetford 365 MSD in the online store here sbo.com plumbing

 

[w4pyleii]

Thanks for the info. Interesting option with the MSD peggie, though the 365 in the link makes no mention of pumpout abilities or venting.

I have a thetford in the boat right now, i'll have to double check the model number.

 

[kenn]

Interesting option with the MSD peggie, though the 365 in the link makes no mention of pumpout abilities or venting.

I believe there are two models of the '365', and only the '365 MSD' has the fittings for pumpout and vent.