I am replacing the laminate/formica surface on the galley. This was quite a project. I have the new piece of Formica cut to the size I need, now it is a matter of attaching to the plywood base. Typical home installation of Formica uses contact cement and a router to trim the excess, and since kitchens and kitchen counters are in a mini-gymnasium compared to a boats galley, this makes sense. My issue is that even with using tricks like waxed paper or long support sticks to act as a buffer, I do not see this being a viable option. If the two surfaces make contact the bond is permanent and this seems way too likely to happen in these tight quarters Can I use some type of glue or?? which will give me time to position the piece in place before a bond is made? Thanks!!
can you glue formica???
- Thread starter deeman7777
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Can it be removed from the boat?
Can you remove the counter area from the boat? This may not be practical in some boats. Another option is to hire someone who knows what they are doing. The pro's usually know all the tricks and I cannot imagine that the cost would be that much.
Can you remove the counter area from the boat? This may not be practical in some boats. Another option is to hire someone who knows what they are doing. The pro's usually know all the tricks and I cannot imagine that the cost would be that much.
Deeman
it sounds like you have worked with formica before. That is a plus. Look past the fear, dry run the installation a couple times. If you have an extra pair of skilled hands you can work out the bumps that you may have. That is sometimes the only difference between a craftsman and a DIY project. You may need to change from dowel rod to 1/4" plywood cut the same size so that there is no contact prior to the desired time. You already know the problems, think it out to overcome them. Worst case, use a drywall knife to seperate things and if needed cut another piece. If you do contact early, carefully use a heat gun on the surface, it will allow you to carefully dislocate the problem and reset. I have to do this once in a while with the end cap if I have to resize a counter top. Be carefull not to overheat an area. go for it! r.w.landau
it sounds like you have worked with formica before. That is a plus. Look past the fear, dry run the installation a couple times. If you have an extra pair of skilled hands you can work out the bumps that you may have. That is sometimes the only difference between a craftsman and a DIY project. You may need to change from dowel rod to 1/4" plywood cut the same size so that there is no contact prior to the desired time. You already know the problems, think it out to overcome them. Worst case, use a drywall knife to seperate things and if needed cut another piece. If you do contact early, carefully use a heat gun on the surface, it will allow you to carefully dislocate the problem and reset. I have to do this once in a while with the end cap if I have to resize a counter top. Be carefull not to overheat an area. go for it! r.w.landau
Take counter out of the boat.
It is virtually impossible to attach formica without contact cement, although I've not tried. You might just pop into Home Depot/Lowes and ask them if any other glue will work. If I were you, I would take the "counter top" substrate out of the boat and use contact cement just like you would in your home. RW has a good suggestion about low heat, but be careful. Contact cement is pretty flammable. Also, run a fan for good ventilation. It's a cheap high, but you'll start making mistakes. If you find another solution, post back to this thread so we can all learn from your experience. Good luck.
It is virtually impossible to attach formica without contact cement, although I've not tried. You might just pop into Home Depot/Lowes and ask them if any other glue will work. If I were you, I would take the "counter top" substrate out of the boat and use contact cement just like you would in your home. RW has a good suggestion about low heat, but be careful. Contact cement is pretty flammable. Also, run a fan for good ventilation. It's a cheap high, but you'll start making mistakes. If you find another solution, post back to this thread so we can all learn from your experience. Good luck.
Latex contact cement
is the answer. The water based contact cement is just as good as the cheap high stuff and much easier to work with. r.w.landau
is the answer. The water based contact cement is just as good as the cheap high stuff and much easier to work with. r.w.landau
latex
I do quite a bit of formica work, and while the latex DOES work, it is not as reliable as the cheap buzz stuff, I've worked in some 'green' buildings, (green = eco friendly, no solvents) and quite often using the same container, same latex base contact cement, no matter what you do you can't get it to stick. I'd go with regular solvent based if it were me. Also, formica is paper and epoxy so I'd bet (but never tried) that any epoxy would hold it. The easiest way I've found to do some close quarters/crazy shaped stuff is to cut a template with poster board, and transfer that to the formica, cut it with a reverse tooth sabre saw, or a fine tooth circ/sabre saw from the back side. put it in place and set up two or three reference marks so you can be sure to position it back in place exactly, apply the goop, let it set then use a few dowels or strips of plywood, maybe waxed paper if the area is not too large, and set the formica on them, lined up correctly and pull the dowel that hopefully lines up with a mark, then just work your way out from there. other than pulling the counter top it's the easiest way. If you have a backsplash or similar around the wall section, your fit can be loose. also, a friend claims that if you sprinkle a little water over the base before putting the formica on it will allow you to shift the formica around for proper alignment, I've never tried it, but he claims great results. Ken.
I do quite a bit of formica work, and while the latex DOES work, it is not as reliable as the cheap buzz stuff, I've worked in some 'green' buildings, (green = eco friendly, no solvents) and quite often using the same container, same latex base contact cement, no matter what you do you can't get it to stick. I'd go with regular solvent based if it were me. Also, formica is paper and epoxy so I'd bet (but never tried) that any epoxy would hold it. The easiest way I've found to do some close quarters/crazy shaped stuff is to cut a template with poster board, and transfer that to the formica, cut it with a reverse tooth sabre saw, or a fine tooth circ/sabre saw from the back side. put it in place and set up two or three reference marks so you can be sure to position it back in place exactly, apply the goop, let it set then use a few dowels or strips of plywood, maybe waxed paper if the area is not too large, and set the formica on them, lined up correctly and pull the dowel that hopefully lines up with a mark, then just work your way out from there. other than pulling the counter top it's the easiest way. If you have a backsplash or similar around the wall section, your fit can be loose. also, a friend claims that if you sprinkle a little water over the base before putting the formica on it will allow you to shift the formica around for proper alignment, I've never tried it, but he claims great results. Ken.
Just a Thought
If the counter can be brought to a workshop, try laying the formica on a flat surface and holding it there. Then coat it and the counter with contact adhesive and, after the required 10 minutes offer the counter to the formica; ie. upside down. Turn it over and ensure both surfaces are in intimate contact. For this the formica will need to be cut oversize so that it can first be rough trimmed then routered. BTW some makes of adhesive reckon to give either initial slip if surfaces are brought together quickly. Others offer a 'second chance' where they do not have such a powerful initial grab.
If the counter can be brought to a workshop, try laying the formica on a flat surface and holding it there. Then coat it and the counter with contact adhesive and, after the required 10 minutes offer the counter to the formica; ie. upside down. Turn it over and ensure both surfaces are in intimate contact. For this the formica will need to be cut oversize so that it can first be rough trimmed then routered. BTW some makes of adhesive reckon to give either initial slip if surfaces are brought together quickly. Others offer a 'second chance' where they do not have such a powerful initial grab.
Many Thanks!!
Many thanks to all the responses. Sadly, the countertop can not be removed. Because of a bulkhead the fit in incredibly tight and the only way the single piece of formica can fit into the galley is to bend and roll it up to clear the tight spots. The bulkhead must have been removed, old counter installed and the bulkhead re-glassed to the hull for a good fit. I don't have time to remove and re-do all that. I will get some courage and try the dowel or plywood strip trick with ref. marks and hope for the best. Thanks again!!
Many thanks to all the responses. Sadly, the countertop can not be removed. Because of a bulkhead the fit in incredibly tight and the only way the single piece of formica can fit into the galley is to bend and roll it up to clear the tight spots. The bulkhead must have been removed, old counter installed and the bulkhead re-glassed to the hull for a good fit. I don't have time to remove and re-do all that. I will get some courage and try the dowel or plywood strip trick with ref. marks and hope for the best. Thanks again!!
Epoxy
Why not just use some epoxy? Use the slow setting hardner and you'll have plenty of time to get it exactly where you want it.
Why not just use some epoxy? Use the slow setting hardner and you'll have plenty of time to get it exactly where you want it.
do it the easy way
I've sucsessfuly completed a similar task. Spread sika polyurethane adhesive over the base,screed it out with a notched spreader,then fit formica. Make sure that the whole surface is covered with adhesive.You can take your time to exactly position the fomica.Clamp or apply weights until glue has cured. It works like a charm.
I've sucsessfuly completed a similar task. Spread sika polyurethane adhesive over the base,screed it out with a notched spreader,then fit formica. Make sure that the whole surface is covered with adhesive.You can take your time to exactly position the fomica.Clamp or apply weights until glue has cured. It works like a charm.
Resin glue
The preferred way to glue p-lam to a fresh (not one that has had any glue on it before) substrate is with plastic resin glue, which on a retail basis, can be bought in powder form mix with water (Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue). BUT it has to be pressed, or clamped, for 6-8 hours @ 68+ degrees. You have plenty of time to move around & adjust. So, if you have any way of weighting the whole surface, (sand bags?) this is a possibility. You will also have to deal with the squeeze out glue. Contact cement is whole lot easier, but less forgiving in placement, although the dowel routine works well. Like Kendall I say avoid the water base. There were a bunch of lawsuits back in the 80's over water base. It's probably better now, but once bitten, twice shy.
The preferred way to glue p-lam to a fresh (not one that has had any glue on it before) substrate is with plastic resin glue, which on a retail basis, can be bought in powder form mix with water (Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue). BUT it has to be pressed, or clamped, for 6-8 hours @ 68+ degrees. You have plenty of time to move around & adjust. So, if you have any way of weighting the whole surface, (sand bags?) this is a possibility. You will also have to deal with the squeeze out glue. Contact cement is whole lot easier, but less forgiving in placement, although the dowel routine works well. Like Kendall I say avoid the water base. There were a bunch of lawsuits back in the 80's over water base. It's probably better now, but once bitten, twice shy.
Epoxy
I have glued acre's of formica (high pressure laminates)using the standard solvent based contact cement. There were the rare times that this was not possible, such as in your case or when i had to laminate a column using a vacuum clamp. I used epoxy and never had a failure. Keep in mind that the edges are much more important than the center. I would use a quick setting mix which still will give you about 10 min of working time in normal conditions. Freshly mixed epoxy will clean up fairly easily with rubbing alcohol. Have lots of it handy.
I have glued acre's of formica (high pressure laminates)using the standard solvent based contact cement. There were the rare times that this was not possible, such as in your case or when i had to laminate a column using a vacuum clamp. I used epoxy and never had a failure. Keep in mind that the edges are much more important than the center. I would use a quick setting mix which still will give you about 10 min of working time in normal conditions. Freshly mixed epoxy will clean up fairly easily with rubbing alcohol. Have lots of it handy.
Another glue possibility
I work part time in a custom woodworking shop and when we are unable to use contact cement, we use a glue called Roo Glue. I is meant for work with melamine faced particle board, but holds real well on laminates too. It will give you the open time and ability to position that you need, just be sure to clamp or weight the piece that you are installing. The excess can be cleaned up with a rag and water. HTH, Ellis
I work part time in a custom woodworking shop and when we are unable to use contact cement, we use a glue called Roo Glue. I is meant for work with melamine faced particle board, but holds real well on laminates too. It will give you the open time and ability to position that you need, just be sure to clamp or weight the piece that you are installing. The excess can be cleaned up with a rag and water. HTH, Ellis
alternative to trimming after gluing
Deeman, the way I understood it from your description is that you felt that the clean trimming of the edges has to happen after the piece is glued down. My countertops have fiddle rails all around that would be a chore to remove and my plan was going to be to cut and trim the pieces with great care until they were the best shape for sliding right into the space. Is that an option for you? If you don't have fiddle rails then cleaning up the edges with a sharp file rather than cutting might finish it off neatly if the piece is a close fit.
Deeman, the way I understood it from your description is that you felt that the clean trimming of the edges has to happen after the piece is glued down. My countertops have fiddle rails all around that would be a chore to remove and my plan was going to be to cut and trim the pieces with great care until they were the best shape for sliding right into the space. Is that an option for you? If you don't have fiddle rails then cleaning up the edges with a sharp file rather than cutting might finish it off neatly if the piece is a close fit.
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