I have a "new to me" '85 C-27. The mast has no winch on it and only 2 small cleats. I'd like to attach another cleat or two to the mast to support a halyard and help organize the lines at the mast. Can this be done? Will the mast wall support a cleat without some sort of compression tube? Can I just pop rivet one on? If so, aluminum or stainless rivets? Also, I have a Stoboom with main sail rather than a standard boom. I am yet to sail this boat and am already starting to hate this Stoboom. Does anyone have any advice or experience with Stobooms? Should I look to replace it? Lastly, the head fills with sea water with the seacock open. I think the head is an original Groco? Rebuild or replace? Any replacement suggestions? Any advice on what fits in a Catalina 27? Thanks all! You folks have been a great help me! --Greg
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Don Flowers
some help
I have not seen the mast of the 27, but I have added things to masts prior,such as steps, cleats,etc. and have always used the drill and tap method. I have never had a problem.If you choose the drill and tap method,make sure and use something in the threads to reduce the galvonic corrosion that may occur over time.(aluminum mast and Stainless screws) I once had a slip neighbor try to use pop rivits on his mast for mast steps and he was never able to get the pop rivits tight enough to keep the steps from wiggling under load of climbing. This caused a premature failure of the rivits. It rounded out the holes and the rivits became very loose. He removed and used the drill and tap method and was no longer troubled. As far as your head problem Peggy Hall "The Head Mistress" would better answer your problem. IMHO, I would replace the head, but Peggy could make that call better than me. And about the stoboom, I have no experience, sorry. Don Flowers Rockport, Tx.
I have not seen the mast of the 27, but I have added things to masts prior,such as steps, cleats,etc. and have always used the drill and tap method. I have never had a problem.If you choose the drill and tap method,make sure and use something in the threads to reduce the galvonic corrosion that may occur over time.(aluminum mast and Stainless screws) I once had a slip neighbor try to use pop rivits on his mast for mast steps and he was never able to get the pop rivits tight enough to keep the steps from wiggling under load of climbing. This caused a premature failure of the rivits. It rounded out the holes and the rivits became very loose. He removed and used the drill and tap method and was no longer troubled. As far as your head problem Peggy Hall "The Head Mistress" would better answer your problem. IMHO, I would replace the head, but Peggy could make that call better than me. And about the stoboom, I have no experience, sorry. Don Flowers Rockport, Tx.
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Greg
Just screw the cleat to the mast?
Thanks for the input Don! Is the mast wall is thick enough to just tap threads? I would think that they would just pull right out when trying to tighten a bolt. Would a rivnut have more structural integrity?
Thanks for the input Don! Is the mast wall is thick enough to just tap threads? I would think that they would just pull right out when trying to tighten a bolt. Would a rivnut have more structural integrity?
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Trevor - SailboatOwners.com
Drill and tap into mast
Hi Greg - I agree with Don; I've had success drilling and tapping for 1/4" screws right into the mast. There should be enough aluminum thickness to secure the cleat no problem. As Don said make sure you coat the threads with something to separate the aluminum and stainless metals. Regarding the head, I'd consider replacing the entire head, since the cost of a rebuild kit with the new seal you need will likely be a good percentage of an entire new head. Just my opinion - it depends on the general condition of the toilet I suppose. I have no experience with the stoboom, but it might not be too hard to find a standard boom to replace it with. Best of luck - have fun! Trevor
Hi Greg - I agree with Don; I've had success drilling and tapping for 1/4" screws right into the mast. There should be enough aluminum thickness to secure the cleat no problem. As Don said make sure you coat the threads with something to separate the aluminum and stainless metals. Regarding the head, I'd consider replacing the entire head, since the cost of a rebuild kit with the new seal you need will likely be a good percentage of an entire new head. Just my opinion - it depends on the general condition of the toilet I suppose. I have no experience with the stoboom, but it might not be too hard to find a standard boom to replace it with. Best of luck - have fun! Trevor
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Don Flowers
Greg
I have never had a problem with wall thickness, and as far as the pop rivit,IMHO only, is not what I would have on my mast. Another piece of experience. The screw should be at least a #10 thread, or as Trevor said 1/4" would be even better. The mast steps I was referring to in the earlier post was on a clients vessel that has since come back after several years in the islands and was ready for his next refit and commented that he had no trouble from anything that we had atached to the mast with the drill and tap method. In the end it is your vessel, and you will have to make that decision. Good luck in anything that you do, if I can help give me a mail. Fair winds to ya. Don Flowers Rockport, Tx.
I have never had a problem with wall thickness, and as far as the pop rivit,IMHO only, is not what I would have on my mast. Another piece of experience. The screw should be at least a #10 thread, or as Trevor said 1/4" would be even better. The mast steps I was referring to in the earlier post was on a clients vessel that has since come back after several years in the islands and was ready for his next refit and commented that he had no trouble from anything that we had atached to the mast with the drill and tap method. In the end it is your vessel, and you will have to make that decision. Good luck in anything that you do, if I can help give me a mail. Fair winds to ya. Don Flowers Rockport, Tx.
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Tom Soko
Drill and Tap
Greg, As a follow-up to Trevor's suggestion, you should use 1/4-28 screws (fine thread). They have a little more surface area in the threads than a 1/4-20 does, and hold a little better.
Greg, As a follow-up to Trevor's suggestion, you should use 1/4-28 screws (fine thread). They have a little more surface area in the threads than a 1/4-20 does, and hold a little better.
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Don Guillette
Can I add A Cleat To The Mast
Drilling and tapping and pop rivets are a couple of ways to go when you want to attach something to the boom or mast. The propblem with tapping is there is not a lot of thickness in either boom or mast to really get a good grip. Even with fine threads, you only pick up about 3 or 4 threads. What I use in these situations is an item called a RivNut. It is used in the aircraft industry or in any situation where the metal is thin such as installing lights or mirrors on a truck or a school bus. The RivNut looks like a "top hat" with threads inside. You merely drill the hole and insert the RivNut and then you use a special tool (looks like a pop rivit gun) to pull up the material sort of like you would with a pop rivet. They come in SS or alum. The beauty of this product is you have about 1" of thread and that baby ain't ever going to pull out. If it did pull out it would take a big chunk of the boom or mast with it. The strenght of this item was important to me when I installed my Garhauer rigid vang, which is subjected to a lot of different forces and I didn't think a tap would do the job.
Drilling and tapping and pop rivets are a couple of ways to go when you want to attach something to the boom or mast. The propblem with tapping is there is not a lot of thickness in either boom or mast to really get a good grip. Even with fine threads, you only pick up about 3 or 4 threads. What I use in these situations is an item called a RivNut. It is used in the aircraft industry or in any situation where the metal is thin such as installing lights or mirrors on a truck or a school bus. The RivNut looks like a "top hat" with threads inside. You merely drill the hole and insert the RivNut and then you use a special tool (looks like a pop rivit gun) to pull up the material sort of like you would with a pop rivet. They come in SS or alum. The beauty of this product is you have about 1" of thread and that baby ain't ever going to pull out. If it did pull out it would take a big chunk of the boom or mast with it. The strenght of this item was important to me when I installed my Garhauer rigid vang, which is subjected to a lot of different forces and I didn't think a tap would do the job.
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Don Flowers
Don
Don, where can I get some of those jewels. They sound like the best of both worlds. Don Flowers Rockport, Tx.
Don, where can I get some of those jewels. They sound like the best of both worlds. Don Flowers Rockport, Tx.
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Don Guillette
Can I add A Cleat To The Mast
Don: To me, RivNuts (threaded rivets)are the only way to go. There are a number of palces you can obtain RivNut.They are the best for any relatively thin surface such as Dune buggys, sheet metal or any Fibreglas, such as a boat. The first and easiest place to check first is Ace Hardware. My local Ace carries a small selection. If that doesn't work, try these places - MCmaster-Carr, who are industrial suppliers, (wwwmcmaster.com). Mcmaster is on the high side but it is a professional rivet tool. Harbor Frieght,if you have one in your area, also carries them (www.harborfreight.com). I have 2 sets of them - one for home and another one on the boat. The one on the boat is a professional set I was given as a gift. I found an inexpensive set at Leichtung Workshops, which is a division of Woodworker Supply of Casper WY (800 321-6840). A 45 piece set consists of a 10" rivet tool, 4 nosepieces and 10 each aluminum of 6-32,8-32,10-32 and 1/4-20. The total cost was $14.99. On the cheaper set be aware that if you want to install above 1/4-20 (as I did when I was installing my Garhauer rigid vang)you need a heavier rivet tool plus a different nose piece.
Don: To me, RivNuts (threaded rivets)are the only way to go. There are a number of palces you can obtain RivNut.They are the best for any relatively thin surface such as Dune buggys, sheet metal or any Fibreglas, such as a boat. The first and easiest place to check first is Ace Hardware. My local Ace carries a small selection. If that doesn't work, try these places - MCmaster-Carr, who are industrial suppliers, (wwwmcmaster.com). Mcmaster is on the high side but it is a professional rivet tool. Harbor Frieght,if you have one in your area, also carries them (www.harborfreight.com). I have 2 sets of them - one for home and another one on the boat. The one on the boat is a professional set I was given as a gift. I found an inexpensive set at Leichtung Workshops, which is a division of Woodworker Supply of Casper WY (800 321-6840). A 45 piece set consists of a 10" rivet tool, 4 nosepieces and 10 each aluminum of 6-32,8-32,10-32 and 1/4-20. The total cost was $14.99. On the cheaper set be aware that if you want to install above 1/4-20 (as I did when I was installing my Garhauer rigid vang)you need a heavier rivet tool plus a different nose piece.
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Don Flowers
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Robert Taylor
galvanic corrosion
much good advise in all posts. one thing to remember about the rivnuts. they may cause chafe on the internal halyards. another thing to remember about rivets. aluminum is fine in shear (cleat on mast is shear), stainless required for a direct tension pull. i have always drilled and tapped. regardless of what you use, it is important to use a barrier coat to keep dissimilar metals from contacting each other (stainless screws/aluminum mast...etc.
much good advise in all posts. one thing to remember about the rivnuts. they may cause chafe on the internal halyards. another thing to remember about rivets. aluminum is fine in shear (cleat on mast is shear), stainless required for a direct tension pull. i have always drilled and tapped. regardless of what you use, it is important to use a barrier coat to keep dissimilar metals from contacting each other (stainless screws/aluminum mast...etc.
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