I have a 22 foot Venture daysailor that right now has no kitchen facilities. I want to build a cabinet to store plates and such with a platform on top to put a Coleman 2 burner camp stove. I don't want to invest a lot in it since I don't overnight often but would like the capability to cook when I do. My concern is using this stove which uses white gas on a boat. Any concern with these fumes accumulating, anything else? Does anyone use this type of stove on a boat. Thanks!
Camp stove in a sailboat?
- Thread starter maccauley123
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same issues as with any gas
Yeah, big concerns. Your white gas stove still burns gas ... which is heavier than air and thus can collect inside your boat and be set off very explosively by any spark (lights, radio, anything electric, and under the right conditions just two pieces of metal bumping together). And those Coleman white gas stove tanks and valves leak. Propane has the same problem. When a boat is DESIGNED for propane or gas, this has (mostly) been taken into consideration ... blowers, vented/isolated tank areas, etc. My boat, for example, has a lazarette locker where the tank for the outboard is located, and the locker is completely separated from any inside area of the boat, and has ventilation cowls. So it's pretty safe. I still open the locker gently and let it air before hitting the start button. If you ALWAYS store the gas/tank in a ventilated/isolated location, and ALWAYS then use it and put it away again while the boat is open and well ventilated, you can probably get away with it. I used an old coleman white gas camp stove once on my previous boat ... a 22 footer. I carried it outside in the cockpit and when I used it in the galley, I kept everything completely open. Although I did it, IMHO it's not the greatest idea, and I wouldn't do it on any regular basis. Tom Monroe Carlyle Lake
Yeah, big concerns. Your white gas stove still burns gas ... which is heavier than air and thus can collect inside your boat and be set off very explosively by any spark (lights, radio, anything electric, and under the right conditions just two pieces of metal bumping together). And those Coleman white gas stove tanks and valves leak. Propane has the same problem. When a boat is DESIGNED for propane or gas, this has (mostly) been taken into consideration ... blowers, vented/isolated tank areas, etc. My boat, for example, has a lazarette locker where the tank for the outboard is located, and the locker is completely separated from any inside area of the boat, and has ventilation cowls. So it's pretty safe. I still open the locker gently and let it air before hitting the start button. If you ALWAYS store the gas/tank in a ventilated/isolated location, and ALWAYS then use it and put it away again while the boat is open and well ventilated, you can probably get away with it. I used an old coleman white gas camp stove once on my previous boat ... a 22 footer. I carried it outside in the cockpit and when I used it in the galley, I kept everything completely open. Although I did it, IMHO it's not the greatest idea, and I wouldn't do it on any regular basis. Tom Monroe Carlyle Lake
Magma Propane stove/grill...
works great. I bought one when I had a 23ft boat and have taken it with me as I moved up. It mounts on the stern pulpit.
works great. I bought one when I had a 23ft boat and have taken it with me as I moved up. It mounts on the stern pulpit.
Use butane stove
You can use a Kenyon butane stove instead of a camp stove. They run on butane canisters and have one burner. In either case you must have ventilation, but, IMHO, I think that the Coleman would be more dangerous; and the Kenyon safer.
You can use a Kenyon butane stove instead of a camp stove. They run on butane canisters and have one burner. In either case you must have ventilation, but, IMHO, I think that the Coleman would be more dangerous; and the Kenyon safer.
Magma Out....Alcohol In
I use a Magma on the stern for 90% of my marine cooking. I have a two burner denatured alcohol stove for use inside...it came with my boat. I wouldn't use anything BUT the alcohol burner in the cabin. It doesn't leak, is easy to fill/light, and the flames can safely be extinguished with water, if necessary. I've had too many negative run-ins with my Coleman and other white gas stoves, including a couple of incidents involving flaming leaks. I would be hard-pressed to use anything this volatile on board. Another word of advice...be careful storing cannisters of propane with regulators (i.e. for Magma stove) attached. I had that fell over, opening the valve, and causing my cabin to fill with an alarming amount of boom juice. The "active cannister" now has a special thone in which it stays strapped with an inverted bottom of a two-liter drink bottle protecting the valve.
I use a Magma on the stern for 90% of my marine cooking. I have a two burner denatured alcohol stove for use inside...it came with my boat. I wouldn't use anything BUT the alcohol burner in the cabin. It doesn't leak, is easy to fill/light, and the flames can safely be extinguished with water, if necessary. I've had too many negative run-ins with my Coleman and other white gas stoves, including a couple of incidents involving flaming leaks. I would be hard-pressed to use anything this volatile on board. Another word of advice...be careful storing cannisters of propane with regulators (i.e. for Magma stove) attached. I had that fell over, opening the valve, and causing my cabin to fill with an alarming amount of boom juice. The "active cannister" now has a special thone in which it stays strapped with an inverted bottom of a two-liter drink bottle protecting the valve.
Go with Alcohol
For occasional cooking on board (coffee, hot water, soup, etc., ), the Origo single burner stove (or similar alcohol stove) works great. I wouldn't bother with the double burner models. They just takes up space (which is at a premium on a 22 footer), and I have never needed to use more than one burner at a time. You can pick them up relatively cheap ($75-$100) on Ebay, and they work very well. I also have the Magma propane grill which I use every once in a while for burgers and steaks, but the alcohol stove is used 90% of the time for overnighters. Dave s/v Hakuna Matata O'Day 222
For occasional cooking on board (coffee, hot water, soup, etc., ), the Origo single burner stove (or similar alcohol stove) works great. I wouldn't bother with the double burner models. They just takes up space (which is at a premium on a 22 footer), and I have never needed to use more than one burner at a time. You can pick them up relatively cheap ($75-$100) on Ebay, and they work very well. I also have the Magma propane grill which I use every once in a while for burgers and steaks, but the alcohol stove is used 90% of the time for overnighters. Dave s/v Hakuna Matata O'Day 222
camping stoves are not approved by Ins company
I would talk to your insurance company first. Most companies will tell you that a coleman stove burning white gas will void your insurance coverage if you have a fire related claim. Be safe and invest in an Origo alcohol stove.
I would talk to your insurance company first. Most companies will tell you that a coleman stove burning white gas will void your insurance coverage if you have a fire related claim. Be safe and invest in an Origo alcohol stove.
for what it is worth
1)insurance coverage on V22?? 2)from my first hand experience, I threw water on an alcohol stove that had a leak where the valve meet the burner on my old C25. it didnt put it out it SPREAD THE FIRE. further, a close friend had his alcohol stove blow up in his face. even afterward though he still swears alcohol is safer even though he is missing part of his ear lobe. 3)I also had the magma cooker on my C25 and found after I threw the alcohol stove in the trash (after the fire) I could cook anything on the magma outside that I could with the alcohol cooker inside, including the morning coffee by removing the grill and setting the pot directly on the burner. 4) I have a propane 2 burner on my C30 w/oven and although I feel it is safe, I still prefer to do most cooking on the magma outside. if for no other reason than I like cooking outside and dont want to heat up the cabin. moral of the story, IMHO get a magma and mount it on the stern and forget about it!
1)insurance coverage on V22?? 2)from my first hand experience, I threw water on an alcohol stove that had a leak where the valve meet the burner on my old C25. it didnt put it out it SPREAD THE FIRE. further, a close friend had his alcohol stove blow up in his face. even afterward though he still swears alcohol is safer even though he is missing part of his ear lobe. 3)I also had the magma cooker on my C25 and found after I threw the alcohol stove in the trash (after the fire) I could cook anything on the magma outside that I could with the alcohol cooker inside, including the morning coffee by removing the grill and setting the pot directly on the burner. 4) I have a propane 2 burner on my C30 w/oven and although I feel it is safe, I still prefer to do most cooking on the magma outside. if for no other reason than I like cooking outside and dont want to heat up the cabin. moral of the story, IMHO get a magma and mount it on the stern and forget about it!
coleman propane maybe gas no
We cooked for several years with a coleman propane stove on a lake. But the flare ups with gasoline are just too risky. Pressurised alcohol has the same problem with flare ups. My biggest concern with alcohol is that it burns with an almost invisable flame!!! The good thing about alcohol is that it can be put out with water. Unpressurised alcohol stoves don't put out much heat compared to propane so cooking takes longer. Any stove/flame on a small boat is dangerous and must be handled with care. Suffocation risk is about the same regardless of fuel. Always leave the hatch open while cooking below.
We cooked for several years with a coleman propane stove on a lake. But the flare ups with gasoline are just too risky. Pressurised alcohol has the same problem with flare ups. My biggest concern with alcohol is that it burns with an almost invisable flame!!! The good thing about alcohol is that it can be put out with water. Unpressurised alcohol stoves don't put out much heat compared to propane so cooking takes longer. Any stove/flame on a small boat is dangerous and must be handled with care. Suffocation risk is about the same regardless of fuel. Always leave the hatch open while cooking below.
Alcohol Fuel Users.....
Boat US just sent out their monthly newsletter. This month's feature was galley fires. Alcohol isn't given a very good rating from Boat US's investigations in galley fires.
Boat US just sent out their monthly newsletter. This month's feature was galley fires. Alcohol isn't given a very good rating from Boat US's investigations in galley fires.
confused!!!!!
several people keep stating that alcohol fires can be put out by water. very small ones maybe! but, as I stated before! when I had a major alcohol fire on my stove and poured water on it the alcohol floated on top of the water and the water actually caused the fire to spread!!! thanks God I had a fire extingusisher close at hand or it would have burned the boat down. please be careful with what you say on matters of such great importance!
several people keep stating that alcohol fires can be put out by water. very small ones maybe! but, as I stated before! when I had a major alcohol fire on my stove and poured water on it the alcohol floated on top of the water and the water actually caused the fire to spread!!! thanks God I had a fire extingusisher close at hand or it would have burned the boat down. please be careful with what you say on matters of such great importance!
Thanks
Thanks for everyones input, stuff I kind of suspected but was not sure of. I will be getting one of the Magma stoves and using that, definitely sounds like the best solution.
Thanks for everyones input, stuff I kind of suspected but was not sure of. I will be getting one of the Magma stoves and using that, definitely sounds like the best solution.
Putting out alcohol fires...
Dan, you've got me really curious on this one, to the point of experimentation. My statements on alcohol stoves and putting fires out with water are based on what I've read, and the chemistry of alcohol which is supposed to mix readily with water instead of floating like petroleum products. Your experience would contradict that. In true American Grit fashion, I'm going to create an alcohol fire (both in and out of the stove) and try to put them out with water to see what happens. Will report back to the forum. In the meantime, like you, I will continue to rely primarily on my trusty Magma.
Dan, you've got me really curious on this one, to the point of experimentation. My statements on alcohol stoves and putting fires out with water are based on what I've read, and the chemistry of alcohol which is supposed to mix readily with water instead of floating like petroleum products. Your experience would contradict that. In true American Grit fashion, I'm going to create an alcohol fire (both in and out of the stove) and try to put them out with water to see what happens. Will report back to the forum. In the meantime, like you, I will continue to rely primarily on my trusty Magma.
Steve, let me know
how she turns out. on my old C25 my "curtain burner" in the beginning had a small leak that would drip enough to create a small fire on the top of the stove which I would pour water on and it would put it out. one morning the leak had gotten worse and the fire was about the size of the bottom of a coffee pot. when I poured water on it instead of putting it out it made it spread over the entire stove.
how she turns out. on my old C25 my "curtain burner" in the beginning had a small leak that would drip enough to create a small fire on the top of the stove which I would pour water on and it would put it out. one morning the leak had gotten worse and the fire was about the size of the bottom of a coffee pot. when I poured water on it instead of putting it out it made it spread over the entire stove.
Acohol fires
I don't have any experience with alcohol fires but from what I know of alcohol, if you have a pool of it and try to pour water onto it you may splash droplets of burning alcohol which could be a problem in and of itself. Otherwise, alcohol fires should go out with water assuming that the volume of alcohol is low compared to the volume of water added. I think ethanol will still burn at a 50% solution so that means if you have a pool of alcohol burning you need to pour more water on the pool than is already there, being careful not to splash any of the alcohol. Myself, I use a propane bbq on the stern rail but also have a kenyon 1-burner butane canister stove that I feel is very safe to use in the cabin. When not in use, I put the canisters in a holster in the lazarettes.
I don't have any experience with alcohol fires but from what I know of alcohol, if you have a pool of it and try to pour water onto it you may splash droplets of burning alcohol which could be a problem in and of itself. Otherwise, alcohol fires should go out with water assuming that the volume of alcohol is low compared to the volume of water added. I think ethanol will still burn at a 50% solution so that means if you have a pool of alcohol burning you need to pour more water on the pool than is already there, being careful not to splash any of the alcohol. Myself, I use a propane bbq on the stern rail but also have a kenyon 1-burner butane canister stove that I feel is very safe to use in the cabin. When not in use, I put the canisters in a holster in the lazarettes.
Be Careful
No gasoline or propane! The fumes "sink" into the lowest pointr in the boat. Stick with a acohol or "LNG"
No gasoline or propane! The fumes "sink" into the lowest pointr in the boat. Stick with a acohol or "LNG"
NON- Pressurized Alcohol
maccauley, There is a hugh differance between alcohol stoves. The old style pressurized stoves have many bad stories attached. The new style Origo stoves are not pressurized and work like a dream. You are right, they are expensive. I picked up mine on E-Bay for $50 shipping included. My second choice would be a rail mounted Magma that Steve Z has already suggested. Alcohol is the only fuel that can be put out with water. Coleman fuel takes a fire extinguisher and propane inside the boat just isn't safe. Besides, anytime you cook in the boat you should have a fire extinguisher (or two) handy. Being cautious by moving curtians and hand towel helps. r.w.landau
maccauley, There is a hugh differance between alcohol stoves. The old style pressurized stoves have many bad stories attached. The new style Origo stoves are not pressurized and work like a dream. You are right, they are expensive. I picked up mine on E-Bay for $50 shipping included. My second choice would be a rail mounted Magma that Steve Z has already suggested. Alcohol is the only fuel that can be put out with water. Coleman fuel takes a fire extinguisher and propane inside the boat just isn't safe. Besides, anytime you cook in the boat you should have a fire extinguisher (or two) handy. Being cautious by moving curtians and hand towel helps. r.w.landau
Alcohol Fires
If you don't have a handy fire extinguisher wet a large towel and put it over the entire stove or fire area. I tried it, works great and makes less of a mess than the dry powder extinguisher
If you don't have a handy fire extinguisher wet a large towel and put it over the entire stove or fire area. I tried it, works great and makes less of a mess than the dry powder extinguisher
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