California Sailors: Call To Action

[Rick D]

Please see the link to Recreational Boaters of California. They are a legislative advocacy group in Sacramento representing our interests in legislative and regulatory matters. This requires fast action to indicate your concern about an item before the State Water Resources Control Board which would prohibit copper-based bottom paint in parts of San Diego bay and phase it out in the rest of California. This would be fine if: we had an alternative and if it was based on a reliable evaluation of water quality in the area and the effect of copper leaching. It isn't. My recollection is that boaters in certain areas of Northern Europe where the prohibition has been in effect for several years is that yearly or more frequent haul outs are the norm. Since we haul every three to four years, that's a big increase, plus you better have a dive service. So, follow the link and make your own decision, but if you agree, write something and e-mail it to the RBOC pronto! Rick D.

 

[Ahansom20721]

Calling All Sailers to Action

Anyone who thinks this will end in California is mistaken. They will be coming to your state next!!

 

[Scott]

Lots of fodder in this thread!

JC, somebody in this forum linked us to an article that described US Navy research into shark skin. It seems that they are interested in the properties and hope that by artificially replicating it they could have an alternative to conventional bottom treatments, and save millions of dollars (that they could then spend on advanced defence systems I suppose - rather than helping out the taxpayer). I agree with Tereza, that's what I mean about being pro-active. We should endorse improvements and accept the cost, rather than whine that we're being unfairly victimized. BTW, for those of you that believe that industry and government is unregulated ... what country are you living in or what industry is that? All industries are highly regulated. The Fed and State EPA's levy hefty fines on a regular basis (sewerage authorities are not exempt from being fined). Companies with deep pockets are targeted on a regular basis by the EPA. I know that sometimes we feel like we're the poor little guys that the government loves to step on while the rich guys get all the breaks ... but it's time to grow up. Big and small companies alike are highly regulated and enforcement is rigorous at all levels (including un-authorized sewage discharges). Big companies are far more likely to be targeted than the little guy.Also, Fred, when I built my deck three years ago with pressure treated wood (the stuff that is green). We had a rainy summer and all that stuffed leached off on my lawn where it was stacked for a while. I had a dead patch of lawn that wouldn't even grow weeds. I finally dug it out and replaced some topsoil with hopes that some grass will now grow. Was that just because the stuff doesn't taste good? *o

 

[Scott]

Also, Joe ...

That is an interesting article about wetlands surrounding New Orleans. There are valuable reasons for protecting wetlands, or in this case, not cuttting off their supply of water thru levy construction. But right wing planet killers??!!! C'mon isn't that a little divisive? Are you blaming wetland degradation on Republicans even though wetlands have been protected for decades now?

 

[Joe]

sorry scott,

that was an emotional response to the "environmentalist wacko" label used by another poster. That name and others, such as "tree hugger" are bandied about by conservatives to pidgeon hole all conservation minded folks (especially liberals, which I'm not) into a group of zealots intent upon removing their right to use our natural resources as they see fit. Mainly for profit. Surely I don't mean that all republicans are planet killers, nor do I suggest that liberals and moderates are innocent by any means. It's just that most of the environmental name calling I've heard over the past 40 years seems to emanate from the right side of the political spectrum. As far as blaming Republicans for the wetlands degradation... absolutely not! I think we all can share responsibility for that. Blame... it seems, is the second language of bureaucracy, and I, for one, have no interest in wasting time trying to place blame on a problem that has been building for 100 years. I am more interested in what all of us are going to do to keep this planet healthy. Now if that makes me an environmentalist wacko, then I proudly wear the label.

 

[Fred Ficarra]

And Scott,

I saw the green treated lumber being used in new house construction in Hawaii a few years ago. It even looks nasty. All we get around here is the brown lumber. Great stuff.

 

[Scott]

Hey Fred,

I just googled pressure treated lumber and got a little education. The lumber I used for the frame of my deck is treated with Chromated Copper Arsenic (CCA) which has been banned by the EPA (except for some industries - agriculture for one) since January, 2004. Inventory was allowed to be sold so there still may be some out there. Arsenic was the nastiest substance as one can imagine. No wonder my grass got killed and nothing would grow. I am really glad that I didn't use it for the decking and railings. I used the wood/plastic composite products from Timber Tech and Trex. The copper doesn't seem to be an environmental issue because the replacement treatments are alkaline copper quat (ACQ) and acid copper chromate (ACC). To be effective in both of these, the copper content has to be increased, at greater expense and higher corrosive properties in contact with other metals. Related to this topic (remember - about bottom treatments), I haven't read anything about copper being a particularly nasty environmental hazard.You may be seeing a borate lumber treatment if it is brown lumber I suppose. That is supposed to be good, too, and also far less corrosive when in contact with other metals.Who said a little political bickering doesn't belong here? It's good for provoking some interest!

 

[Scott]

Hey Fred,

I just googled pressure treated lumber and got a little education. The nasty green treatment on the lumber I used for the frame of my deck is chromated copper arsenic (CCA). This substance has been banned by the EPA since January, 2004 (except for use by some industry - agriculture to name one). The really nasty stuff is the arsenic. It is not good for skin contact to put it politely. It was the most common form of pressure treated wood (90%) up until the ban.No wonder it killed my grass and nothing would grow for 2 years! I'm glad I didn't use it for the decking and railing. I bought the wood / plastic composite products sold by TemberTech and Trex. Some of the replacement treatments are alkaline copper quat (ACQ) and acid copper chromate (ACC). To be effective, they need a higher copper content, at greater expense and higher corrosive properties to other metals that are in contact with it.Related to this topic (remember - copper based bottom treatments?), I didn't see any mention that the copper is a highly offensive environmental hazard. There is no objection mentioned about the copper content.The brown wood that you are seeing may be a borate lumber treatment I suppose. They said this is also much better for the environment than CCA and has less corrosive properties because it is not copper based.Fred's Rule ... Hmmm, maybe there is something to it! Unfortunately, if there were less bureaucratic jobs, what would we do with all the bureaucrats?

 

[kendall]

green lumber

I agree to an extent that we need to 'upgrade' our systems to more earth friendly means, but not with gestapo tactics, too many enforcement methods in use now are not promoting good feelings in the populace. big business, and many smaller businesses are allowed to get away with things that the average homeowner boatowner etc are NOT allowed to do for any reason. As for the treated lumber, I've built a LOT of decks, and I've never seen the wolmanized or copper/azole stuff render the topsoil sterile, many decks I see have grass/weeds/etc growing right alongside the posts, I would double check your supplier, and track down the manufacturer, some small sawmills use a strange mix of chemicals to 'wolmanize' their own wood. The green treated stuff unless purchased from a known company have been known to have little more than a green stain/herbacide mix brushed on.   Up here in michigan, with the grand rapids/grand river sewage overflows, there are very few references I've ever seen to 'fines paid' in the finance reports. Ken