I have a 83 C30 that came with the mainsheeting and traveller mounted on the cabin top, the flat, ball bearing upgrade traveller was also installed. I really don't like the location of the sheeting and the challenge that is created by the Dodger interfering with the operation of the Main sheet and traveller. As well as the distance from the helm station, making single handing much harder. Has anyone had experience re-rigging a wheel steered C30 to have a cockpit mounted traveller, perhaps on a fabricated bridgedeck?
Cabin vs Cockpit Mainsheeting
- Thread starter murdog
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It's rare. We had a discussion about just that kind of issue. Some folks feel that dropping the mainsheet is an imperative. Others feel that the traveler is easier. I prefer simply to head up in a gust. Lots depends on where you sail, of course, but for your ocean cruising (& I've been out there) in the 13 years I've had our boat I haven't seen the need for it. We had a C22 and C25 before, so I understand the issue.
See: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5445.0.html
It's two pages, and eventually comes to your issue. There are some other things you may be interested in.
The answer to the dodger is to have the traveler control lines led through the dodger glazing to cam cleats on the aft end of the cabintop. Others have rerouted them through blocks underneath which I find a recipe for disaster with many turning blocks.
Congratulations on your new boat.
See: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5445.0.html
It's two pages, and eventually comes to your issue. There are some other things you may be interested in.
The answer to the dodger is to have the traveler control lines led through the dodger glazing to cam cleats on the aft end of the cabintop. Others have rerouted them through blocks underneath which I find a recipe for disaster with many turning blocks.
Congratulations on your new boat.
Stu, thanks for the reply. I think I'm stuck, at least for a while, with the cabin top sheeting and traveler adjustment, so I definitely want to optimize it. The traveler lines do come straight aft from the traveller ends, along the cabin top and under/through the bottom of the dodger glazing to jam cleats. I'm not sure how else one would run those, but it sounds like that's optimized. Also the Main Sheet comes back along side the starboard traveller line to a jam cleat as well. I'm just so used to having access to the main sheet, and traveller adjustment, from the helm. I almost bought a Pearson 303 instead of the Catalina 30 just for the main sheet location. I'd love to see if anyone has done a bridge deck installation to run a traveller accross the cockpit just forward of the helm and the cockpit bench access lids on a C30.
I haven't heard of one, and I'd bet you'd lose any resale value on that mod. Please, try working with what you have given the discussion I sent you to. Who knows, you may learn to love it. I have, and coming from the same background you have.
Murdog.....I can't think of any reason why you can't convert to end boom sheeting on the C30. In fact, I like the idea. Just set it up like the old Cat 27.... locate the traveller on a seat level beam across the cockpit. As far as resale....... keep the parts to restore it if the new owner insists. I would locate the traveller just in front of the wheel pedestal. Check Catalina30.org for a factory parts list, but you'll want to incorporate modern hardware. The upgraded traveller on the coachhouse may fit, you might have to mess with control blocks a bit.... The mainsheet tackle can stay the same.. is it 6::1? Perfect. The only advantage you current set up offers is a less cluttered cockpit, other wise having the traveller and mainsheet near the helm is my choice also. Good luck, whatever you decide.
The farther back on the boom the main sheet is located, the more line is required for the same range of travel. It may not allow for squaring off the main when running without adding a lot of mainsheet. It will also make a vang much more necessary and a preventer or boom brake essential to prevent injury or ripping off the traveller in an accidental gybe.
Yea, as far as I see..there's two disadvantages to the change over. Potential decrease in resale, and loss of some cockpit space...I can live with both of those. But think of the advantages: Main sail control from the helm station or by a person sitting in the cockpit instead of standing at the companionway, easier sheeting effort due to attaching the sheet further aft on the boom, better control during gybes, better visibility, lack of interference with the dodger. Now I just need to find a fabricator.
I'm thinking you didn't understand my suggestion. You don't have to build or fabricate anything. What you need is a hardwood or metal "bridge" spanning the width of the cockpit at the seat level, with the traveller track mounted atop it.... just like it is on the coach roof, only in the cockpit. You can bolt the "bridge" to the seats with adqute backing plates, or some other reinforced method, but I would not build a bridge deck per se.... just a bridge that can be dismantled later to return the vessel to its previous configuration.
The " bridge" would look like the picture below of the first generation tiller equipped Catalina 30... just move the bridge forward, in front of your wheel pedestal, and you're good to go. Can you picture moving the traveller in the picture below to suit your own boat?...... Easy, simple, practical. You may be able to find the wooden bridge piece at the Catalina yachts parts department even..... go to www.catalinayachts.com and call the factory for parts dept and customer service... they may be able to hook you up with what you need. Good Luck.
I did exactly what you're considering although in reverse order and found the arrangement unsatisfactory (for me).
My boat was originally tiller steered and had an aft cockpit traveler as shown in the original brochure picture. I converted to pedestal steering which then put the mainsheet all over the helmsman's head and neck. It had to be moved.
I shortened the traveler track and moved it to immediately forward of the pedestal bolting it between the seat risers thus avoiding the seat hatch lids. It resulted in a near vertical sheeting angle close hauled and really cluttered up the cockpit. I knew in an instant I didn't like it but sailed that way for about six months before I relocated it to the cabin top where it remains.
I don't singlehand so take this for what it's worth. If I did, I'd rely on the autopilot in lieu of the missing crew. I'd have to be forward of the pedestal to work the jib winches so why not the mainsheet as well? My AP can hold a straight course and make a 100 degree tack better than most helmsmen.
My boat was originally tiller steered and had an aft cockpit traveler as shown in the original brochure picture. I converted to pedestal steering which then put the mainsheet all over the helmsman's head and neck. It had to be moved.
I shortened the traveler track and moved it to immediately forward of the pedestal bolting it between the seat risers thus avoiding the seat hatch lids. It resulted in a near vertical sheeting angle close hauled and really cluttered up the cockpit. I knew in an instant I didn't like it but sailed that way for about six months before I relocated it to the cabin top where it remains.
I don't singlehand so take this for what it's worth. If I did, I'd rely on the autopilot in lieu of the missing crew. I'd have to be forward of the pedestal to work the jib winches so why not the mainsheet as well? My AP can hold a straight course and make a 100 degree tack better than most helmsmen.
Haha...
my boat still looks like the brochure!!, except add 35 years of wear & tear (& no spinnaker winches!)
I agree with the others that a mid-cockpit sheeting location would be terrible..some boats can get away with it right behind the companionway, but #1, the C-30 lacks a bridge deck, & #2, this configuration ONLY works well when the sail is up, the rest of the time the mainsheet & associated hardware is in the way. I have sailed many miles on a Tartan with this setup..great for the sailor & helmsman, but absolutely terrible for everything else.
BTW - if you do move the mainsheet location aft, you can lose some of the purchase..Mine is only 4:1, but if I had mid boom sheeting, I bet the extra loads require additional purchase..most of you guys are running 6:1 for mid-boom sheeting I assume? ?
A little bit off topic..notice the boat in the brochure picture has the short track mounted on the cabin top..My boat has this piece of track and also came with some Odyssey sails in yellow Catalina bags (I know they are original) & I've never seen a sail from Catalina fit this location..anyone else? What is the purpose of that track?
When I start running out of more pressing 'projects', I am thinking about moving it down to the deck set up in a location for sailing close hauled with the 155% genoa to improve upwind performance since my current 'jib track' is out on the gunwhale..A simple 2 foot track with one block/car would not add too much clutter and I probably move my jib leads about twice per year but get the benefit of inboard sheeting.
my boat still looks like the brochure!!, except add 35 years of wear & tear (& no spinnaker winches!)I agree with the others that a mid-cockpit sheeting location would be terrible..some boats can get away with it right behind the companionway, but #1, the C-30 lacks a bridge deck, & #2, this configuration ONLY works well when the sail is up, the rest of the time the mainsheet & associated hardware is in the way. I have sailed many miles on a Tartan with this setup..great for the sailor & helmsman, but absolutely terrible for everything else.
BTW - if you do move the mainsheet location aft, you can lose some of the purchase..Mine is only 4:1, but if I had mid boom sheeting, I bet the extra loads require additional purchase..most of you guys are running 6:1 for mid-boom sheeting I assume? ?
A little bit off topic..notice the boat in the brochure picture has the short track mounted on the cabin top..My boat has this piece of track and also came with some Odyssey sails in yellow Catalina bags (I know they are original) & I've never seen a sail from Catalina fit this location..anyone else?
What is the purpose of that track? When I start running out of more pressing 'projects', I am thinking about moving it down to the deck set up in a location for sailing close hauled with the 155% genoa to improve upwind performance since my current 'jib track' is out on the gunwhale..A simple 2 foot track with one block/car would not add too much clutter and I probably move my jib leads about twice per year but get the benefit of inboard sheeting.
Shawn, I have that track too - & have never used it either. As far as moving the traveller, my previous boat was an S 2 - 28' similar is size, but had an aft mounted end boom sheeting angled traveller. I thought it had superior control of the main sheet, but I got a lil' tired of being hit in the back of the head every time I gybed or tacked quickly. Lost a few hats to Davey Jones due to that traveller set up! I thought the C 30 would be at a loss for the cabin top traveller, but the boat is so much stiffer than other 30 footers, that I have never felt in danger of over healing, etc. Just throw off the turns on the cabin top winch & the sheet lets out easily. Hauling in the main via the winch is fairly easy. End boom sheeting angles always make gybing feel a bit dangerous. A preventer rigged up is essential. It also requires about a country mile of extra line to run out the boom completely during dead downwind anlges. Murdog, The flat traveller option that U have is supposed to make traveller car adjustments much easier, doesn't it?
jr, have you thought about simply dumping the traveler instead of letting out miles of mainsheet? I find it much, much easier to re-raise the traveler than to have to haul in so much mainsheet. You are right about stability, which many folks moving up to a C30 from smaller boats with end boom sheeting (like our old C25) may have difficulty understanding at first.
I was always under the impression that those short cabintop tracks were for inboard jib sheeting.
I was always under the impression that those short cabintop tracks were for inboard jib sheeting.
Murdog,
All the guys as usual, are right-on, either pro or con and their advice is sound.
Important to remember is that when buying & owning a boat, EVERYTHING IS A COMPROMISE.
The problem is not with the location of the traveler & sheets, it the size and design of the boat. You can't have it all in 30 feet.
Taking in account, the location of your mainsheet purchase and the location on the cabin top, I have not seen many dodgers on Cat 30's that offer more pluses than minuses.
I have had difficulty in managing lines on friend’s boats with dodgers. There is also a limitation of sight-line views in alot of dodger designs that I have seen. I sail in Florida waters so having a dodger is not all that necessary. However saying that, I know that in other areas it comes in handy.
In the Cat 30 picture from Joe, with an aft traveler, sail shape and performance is diminished. A cockpit bimini length will need to be reduced and standing behind the helm (I assume wheel steering) depending on your height, may be hitting the back of your head. You also lose bench room.
There are only so many options you have. If you can find a GOOD canvas guy who knows what he is doing, he may have a more workable modification. Wish you luck pal.........
CR
All the guys as usual, are right-on, either pro or con and their advice is sound.
Important to remember is that when buying & owning a boat, EVERYTHING IS A COMPROMISE.
The problem is not with the location of the traveler & sheets, it the size and design of the boat. You can't have it all in 30 feet.
Taking in account, the location of your mainsheet purchase and the location on the cabin top, I have not seen many dodgers on Cat 30's that offer more pluses than minuses.
I have had difficulty in managing lines on friend’s boats with dodgers. There is also a limitation of sight-line views in alot of dodger designs that I have seen. I sail in Florida waters so having a dodger is not all that necessary. However saying that, I know that in other areas it comes in handy.
In the Cat 30 picture from Joe, with an aft traveler, sail shape and performance is diminished. A cockpit bimini length will need to be reduced and standing behind the helm (I assume wheel steering) depending on your height, may be hitting the back of your head. You also lose bench room.
There are only so many options you have. If you can find a GOOD canvas guy who knows what he is doing, he may have a more workable modification. Wish you luck pal.........
CR
When we first bought our CS-36 I could not wait to convert it to mid boom sheeting from end boom. It was tops on my list. Then something funny happened I started sailing it a LOT solo...... You would not be able to pry my end boom sheeting from my dead fingers..
That being said end boom sheeting favors sailing performance not family performance. As a result we've just been two and a half seasons of only using the main when our 4 year old daughter is napping. This was not to painless for me though because the boat easily sails to hull speed and balances well on her 150 genny and I love my mid week solo sailing for when I want to be a tweaker..... Now that's she's 4 and a half she is doing just fine with the end boom sheeting...
I find many sailors, we have LOTS, of racers in our club, who drool over a cruising boat with a nice end boom sheeting arrangement and great traveler (which can't easily be done on a C-30). A guy who has been drooling over our boat is actually looking for one but does not want the mid boom version... Of course most people wanting a C-30 WILL want mid boom...
If it were me I would not try to convert a C-30 to end boom unless I drastically modified the lazarette hatches to accommodate a much longer traveler. Our C-30 had just a pad eye in front of the pedestal and I gave up a LOT of tweakability without a traveler. This argument is very boat dependent and I don't find a C-30 with pedestal lends well to end boom...
That being said end boom sheeting favors sailing performance not family performance. As a result we've just been two and a half seasons of only using the main when our 4 year old daughter is napping. This was not to painless for me though because the boat easily sails to hull speed and balances well on her 150 genny and I love my mid week solo sailing for when I want to be a tweaker..... Now that's she's 4 and a half she is doing just fine with the end boom sheeting...
I find many sailors, we have LOTS, of racers in our club, who drool over a cruising boat with a nice end boom sheeting arrangement and great traveler (which can't easily be done on a C-30). A guy who has been drooling over our boat is actually looking for one but does not want the mid boom version... Of course most people wanting a C-30 WILL want mid boom...
If it were me I would not try to convert a C-30 to end boom unless I drastically modified the lazarette hatches to accommodate a much longer traveler. Our C-30 had just a pad eye in front of the pedestal and I gave up a LOT of tweakability without a traveler. This argument is very boat dependent and I don't find a C-30 with pedestal lends well to end boom...
You could always take MS's advice and in addition, convert it back to a tiller!!
Stu, the problem with that cabin top track is, I think it is too far forward for a 155% and too far aft for a non-overlapping blade (unless you compromised sail area down low on your blade and made a high clew to get the sheeting angle to work with that track)..maybe a 135 might fit, but I am not sure about getting around the aft lower shroud with that, or even a 155% without affecting sail shape.
I guess a dock experiment is in order...(like I need another project.)
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