removehtml]We have a 1973 c&c 25MK1 which has had the original head and holding tank removed some years back due to a leaky tank. We have owned the boat 2 summers now and want to replace the porta potty. I am looking for some help identifying what was in the boat from new and if there is a way to replace it in kind. I have looked online and found several options for tanks and toilets but have no experience with either. Can you recommend any contacts for original equipment or is my only option to source out what fits and gitter done. any info greatly appreciated.Error: Error: expected [/URL], but found [/removehtml] instead[/removehtml]
c&c head replacement
- Thread starter Newhaven
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I think this boat
used a manual Wilcox Crittenden head, but I don't think the original model is made any longer. I think you would be best advised to find a small compact head that fits and go with that.
used a manual Wilcox Crittenden head, but I don't think the original model is made any longer. I think you would be best advised to find a small compact head that fits and go with that.
Wilcox-Crittenden
The model of head that C&C used during that time, I believe was the Head Mate. (Same as we have) Their website is: http://www.wilcox-crittenden.com/sanitation/manual/head-mate.asp?bid= Steve, Patti and Grace (Ship's Cat) s/v "Ever After" Barrachois Harbour NS Canada
The model of head that C&C used during that time, I believe was the Head Mate. (Same as we have) Their website is: http://www.wilcox-crittenden.com/sanitation/manual/head-mate.asp?bid= Steve, Patti and Grace (Ship's Cat) s/v "Ever After" Barrachois Harbour NS Canada
I'd stick with a portapotty on a boat that size
However, you don't have to be stuck with the portable version. Both Thetford and SeaLand make versions that can be permanently installed and fitted for pumpout. Thetford even makes an electric version that runs on AA batteries (or maybe it's C cells...I forget which). The advantages: no plumbing except the pumpout hose vent line. No moving parts to maintain. The complete system is self-contained in the head. A 5-6 gal model holds about 60 flushes. The disadvantages to a traditional head and holding tank that you THINK you want: You'd lose about 1/4 of your already limited storage space to the tank and plumbing. Toilets use about .5 gal water/flush and they require regular maintenance. So you'd be "upgrading" from a simple system that requires almost no maintenance to a one that requires a lot of maintenance and a tank that holds less than half as many flushes. Unless you're restoring a classic boat as a museum piece, there's no reason to keep everything original...it makes no more sense that it would to keep all the appliances and decor in a 40 yr old house original. Even if you knew the original toilet make/model, it's no longer made...'cuz boat toilets--like everything else--are redesigned/discontinued...and compact toilets (the size you'd need for your boat) only have about a 7-10 year lifespan (the cheapest ones less than 5 years. So even if you still had the original toilet, you'd have to replace it with a current make/model 'cuz you wouldn't be able to find any parts for it. The W-C. Headmate is still made, but it's not the same toilet it was 40 years ago. Then, it was a sturdy bronze toilet that--with good maintenance--could last up to 20 years. But W-C has changed ownership several times in the last 20 years. Today's Headmate is plastic and one of the cheapest (price AND quality) compact toilets. So my advice: keep it simple. The "MSD" version of a 5-6 gal. portapotty has all the advantages of a traditional toilet and holding tank and none of the disadvantages...and for a fraction of the price.
However, you don't have to be stuck with the portable version. Both Thetford and SeaLand make versions that can be permanently installed and fitted for pumpout. Thetford even makes an electric version that runs on AA batteries (or maybe it's C cells...I forget which). The advantages: no plumbing except the pumpout hose vent line. No moving parts to maintain. The complete system is self-contained in the head. A 5-6 gal model holds about 60 flushes. The disadvantages to a traditional head and holding tank that you THINK you want: You'd lose about 1/4 of your already limited storage space to the tank and plumbing. Toilets use about .5 gal water/flush and they require regular maintenance. So you'd be "upgrading" from a simple system that requires almost no maintenance to a one that requires a lot of maintenance and a tank that holds less than half as many flushes. Unless you're restoring a classic boat as a museum piece, there's no reason to keep everything original...it makes no more sense that it would to keep all the appliances and decor in a 40 yr old house original. Even if you knew the original toilet make/model, it's no longer made...'cuz boat toilets--like everything else--are redesigned/discontinued...and compact toilets (the size you'd need for your boat) only have about a 7-10 year lifespan (the cheapest ones less than 5 years. So even if you still had the original toilet, you'd have to replace it with a current make/model 'cuz you wouldn't be able to find any parts for it. The W-C. Headmate is still made, but it's not the same toilet it was 40 years ago. Then, it was a sturdy bronze toilet that--with good maintenance--could last up to 20 years. But W-C has changed ownership several times in the last 20 years. Today's Headmate is plastic and one of the cheapest (price AND quality) compact toilets. So my advice: keep it simple. The "MSD" version of a 5-6 gal. portapotty has all the advantages of a traditional toilet and holding tank and none of the disadvantages...and for a fraction of the price.
Porti-Potti vs. Installed Manual Head
Peggy: Just read your book "cover to cover." Well thought out, simply put. I purchased a boat last month. It has a PHII and a small (>20 gallon holding tank). It seems that you favor a MSD Porti-Potti over a small holding tank. I cannot understand why a simple system (porti-potti)would not be better than a small holding tank. Am I right on this? If so, what size holding tank would you recommend before you would go from a 5 gallon capacity MSD porti-potti to a holding tank with all the related hardware, maintenance, and other issues. I am looking at a system where I have two "bases" for my porti-potti. I will carry a spare and have the ability to take the "black water" tank off the boat and dump it myself. Here in New Jersey the cost for pump out is $ 35.00 to $ 100.00 (and you don't even get kissed). Really liked the book. Cover is too funny.
Peggy: Just read your book "cover to cover." Well thought out, simply put. I purchased a boat last month. It has a PHII and a small (>20 gallon holding tank). It seems that you favor a MSD Porti-Potti over a small holding tank. I cannot understand why a simple system (porti-potti)would not be better than a small holding tank. Am I right on this? If so, what size holding tank would you recommend before you would go from a 5 gallon capacity MSD porti-potti to a holding tank with all the related hardware, maintenance, and other issues. I am looking at a system where I have two "bases" for my porti-potti. I will carry a spare and have the ability to take the "black water" tank off the boat and dump it myself. Here in New Jersey the cost for pump out is $ 35.00 to $ 100.00 (and you don't even get kissed). Really liked the book. Cover is too funny.
We use MSD
We have the the an MSD with a five gallon tank and plumbed for pumpout. The marinas around here have free pumpouts as does the Army Corps of Engineers on our lake. The MSD works great. If you do not plan to do the pumpout then a five gallon tank is pretty heavy to carry. Go with a smaller tank in that case.
We have the the an MSD with a five gallon tank and plumbed for pumpout. The marinas around here have free pumpouts as does the Army Corps of Engineers on our lake. The MSD works great. If you do not plan to do the pumpout then a five gallon tank is pretty heavy to carry. Go with a smaller tank in that case.
What about the smell
Thanks for all the feedback, Our biggest concern is the smell with the porta potty after a couple of days and the fact that they are messy by comparison to the manual head with regards to the flushing capabilities. So far no matter how diligent you are the porta potty smell lingers, even more as the weather gets warmer. We don't find that to be an issue with the permanent tanks on the other boats. The model we have is Thetford Porta Potti 265. Is the problem possibly with the unit? As far as the in kind replacement I wasn't very clear. I don't think it will be difficult to find a toilet that will fit but the tank was my concern. It was suggested that if I find a tank that I think will fit to make a mock up out of cardboard to make sure before I order. This sounds like good advice.
Thanks for all the feedback, Our biggest concern is the smell with the porta potty after a couple of days and the fact that they are messy by comparison to the manual head with regards to the flushing capabilities. So far no matter how diligent you are the porta potty smell lingers, even more as the weather gets warmer. We don't find that to be an issue with the permanent tanks on the other boats. The model we have is Thetford Porta Potti 265. Is the problem possibly with the unit? As far as the in kind replacement I wasn't very clear. I don't think it will be difficult to find a toilet that will fit but the tank was my concern. It was suggested that if I find a tank that I think will fit to make a mock up out of cardboard to make sure before I order. This sounds like good advice.
Shouldn't smell
Newhaven, your port a potty shouldn't smell. Well, maybe only slightly while flushing, but it shouldn't be strong and it should dissipate rather quickly. I to would recommend one instead of adding all the plumbing and headaches on a boat that size. I have the bigger Sealand unit (approx 6 gallons) and you cant beat it for the money. Using Odor Los following it's instructions will eliminate the odor while flushing. No complaints from the admiral and she seems to have an extremely sensitive sense of smell!!! It takes forever to fill it, and if you want you can set it up with a vent and a pumpout connection. Manny
Newhaven, your port a potty shouldn't smell. Well, maybe only slightly while flushing, but it shouldn't be strong and it should dissipate rather quickly. I to would recommend one instead of adding all the plumbing and headaches on a boat that size. I have the bigger Sealand unit (approx 6 gallons) and you cant beat it for the money. Using Odor Los following it's instructions will eliminate the odor while flushing. No complaints from the admiral and she seems to have an extremely sensitive sense of smell!!! It takes forever to fill it, and if you want you can set it up with a vent and a pumpout connection. Manny
Portable tanks tend to stink because
They're sealed up, so they don't get any air into 'em. The portapotty MSD models are vented, same as any other tank...so the same tank products that prevent odor in tanks also prevent it in the portapotty tank. You might want to check out the link below for more detailed information about what causes odors how to maintain any system to prevent 'em...and a lot more. Steve, to answer your question...whether a simple self-contained system is the best choice really depends on the size of the boat. IMO, it's the best choice for most boats up to 26'. But it's not what people expect to find on larger boats...they consider a toilet and tank to be an upgrade from portapotties, even if it means settling a tank that only holds half as many flushes as the portapotty. As far as your own boat is conoerned, it is YOUR boat. So even if it's 40', if a portapotty is the best option for your circumstances, then go with it.
They're sealed up, so they don't get any air into 'em. The portapotty MSD models are vented, same as any other tank...so the same tank products that prevent odor in tanks also prevent it in the portapotty tank. You might want to check out the link below for more detailed information about what causes odors how to maintain any system to prevent 'em...and a lot more. Steve, to answer your question...whether a simple self-contained system is the best choice really depends on the size of the boat. IMO, it's the best choice for most boats up to 26'. But it's not what people expect to find on larger boats...they consider a toilet and tank to be an upgrade from portapotties, even if it means settling a tank that only holds half as many flushes as the portapotty. As far as your own boat is conoerned, it is YOUR boat. So even if it's 40', if a portapotty is the best option for your circumstances, then go with it.
I have the Thehford electric
model Peggie is talking about on one of my boats. It take 6 AA batteries and works great. HOWEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it stinks, most of the time. And Yes I have re-plumed it all. But I admit to using a formaldehyde product not a natural bug product. Hay, I'm still learning too OK.... It is also plumed for maceration discharge and deck pump out. Beside the stink of the system it fills up way to fast with 4 woman aboard. So if you have more then 2, go for a 20gal holding tank MINIMUM!!. My new boat has 40gal.. I am now a happy camper...;D As far as pump out the only place we have had to pay is in Canada, $5. big deal. OK book Peggie.. I lerned a thing or two. But I still have 5gal of concentrated blue Honey Bucket solution to use up...
Ps: Your cutier then I thought you would be..
model Peggie is talking about on one of my boats. It take 6 AA batteries and works great. HOWEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it stinks, most of the time. And Yes I have re-plumed it all. But I admit to using a formaldehyde product not a natural bug product. Hay, I'm still learning too OK.... It is also plumed for maceration discharge and deck pump out. Beside the stink of the system it fills up way to fast with 4 woman aboard. So if you have more then 2, go for a 20gal holding tank MINIMUM!!. My new boat has 40gal.. I am now a happy camper...;D As far as pump out the only place we have had to pay is in Canada, $5. big deal. OK book Peggie.. I lerned a thing or two. But I still have 5gal of concentrated blue Honey Bucket solution to use up...
Ps: Your cutier then I thought you would be..- Status