C&C 32

[Tally Ho]

Yeah, it is the right decision for some people. Like I said, I would just never advise someone to do it. If it is right for them, they'll do it without my counsel. And, I wouldn't want to be the person that encouraged them to do so.

I mean, for us, it is never about the money. Owning a boat costs money ... pretty much all the time. We get enough enjoyment, throughout the year, to feel OK with the money it cost us that year. (Most years, but not every year. I'm looking at you, 2023.) It is one of the main things we do for enjoyment.

So, that's what I tell people. If the amount of money you spend in a year is worth the enjoyment, then the exact math doesn't really matter. Every part of boat ownership is purely elective - none of us must own a boat. We just have a certain variety of masochism.

I made a budget for my boat, which covers slip fees and winter storage, fuel, insurance and some $$ for maintenance and upgrades. Some years I blow the budget (new sails over 3 years), new MaxProp (ouch), etc.

But I consider sailing part of my therapy…keeps me sane and happy How do you put a price on that?

Greg

 

[Foswick]

…keeps me sane

It has the opposite effect on me. I just crawled out of my engine compartment after having a heart-to-heart talk with a stuck idle adjustment screw. The problem is, I think it might have talked back.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

However, at that age it's more likely that it has needed systems fixed and updated or it would be likely in quite poor shape. Whereas the 20 to 25 year old boat may not have yet needed those fixes or upgrades. As clearly we both agree - it's all about condition.

That's a very good point. When I was looking at 20-year old boats, not a single one had standing rigging replaced and they ALL had outdated electronics and autopilot that were at least 10 years old if not original to the boat. All had layers of bottom paint that looked good on the surface at the time buttttt ......

I've spent a ton of money on replacing the standing rigging, replacing the electronics and now I'm starting to find reasons to take the bottom paint down to the gel coat. I'm making a significant effort this spring to avoid this inevitability for a few more years. I don't have any illusions that my upgrades are going to do much more economically than to raise the value just slightly above the average for my vintage (hopefully) and possibly shorter time on the market. Taking a look at the YachtWorld listings, I don't find any that mention much of anything as far as replacements due to age. Boats for sale with standing rigging that is 25 years old? Probably the norm for our production boats that have largely served as dock condos as much as cruisers.

Boats that are approaching 50 years should have had a lot of replacements & upgrades by this time and may even have some very modern electronics if you are lucky enough to find the right seller. It is possible to find one in mint condition, I suppose.

 

[Jumpstart]

The C&C 32 is a good boat provided it is in good shape. I looked at a couple but passed on them. I settled on a Sabre 32 which had a new engine, new rigging, new autoprop and a host of other niceties. My cost to operate has been negligible for the 2 years that I've owned it. I had looked at another S32. Passed. Guy who bought had a lot more skills than me. After an engine overhaul, rigging, new motor mounts etc. he is in deeper than me and he paid $15k less initially and spent a ton more time fixing his. There are 3 Catalina 320s on my dock. They are all starting to have problems. After 30 years the Yanmar engines are starting to require work. Motor mounts need to be replaced and decks starting to have soft spots. The bottom line is that total condition of the boat should be your priority. None of the34 boats you mentioned are tippy relative to a Capri 18. With our short Great Lakes seasons you don't want to spend your summers fixing your boat instead of sailing it.

 

[john6206]

Wow Everyone - thanks for the feedback!

We traveled 500+ miles in two days and looked at 4 boats. The C&C did look to be in pretty good condition for its age, but there were a number of questions about it that made us turn away. I think it's a great bargain for someone else.

The Catalina 320 in Manitowoc looks like the winner. Now is the part that I'm not good at, the negotiations. Fortunately my wife is really good at that. There are just a few little things we have to work out.

@Scott T-Bird you are right. Ultimately for what we plan to use it for, there is no comparing the two.

What I HAVE noticed though, is that a lot of the boats I've looked at that are 80's boats and $20k, someone has done a lot of the work and the investment. New standing rigging (by the way on the Great Lakes standing rigging lasts damn near forever), new sails, new cushions, dodger, Bimini, re-bedded EVERYTHING, rebuilt engine, new or updated plumbing or electrical. Sometimes the 90's boats have not been touched. Thirty year old sails, 30 year old cabin cushions, original everything, nope the fridge doesn't work, neither does the cooktop, yup there's a lot of mold down there, we mostly try not to look at it - it hasn't really been sailed in years - that will be $50k please.

So in some cases (from my experience) that $25K really IS the sail away price, the $45k is the down payment.

Things don't work as well when they age, something is going to break no matter what, but 1995 sounds better to me than 1981.

My plan is to get a slip in the Manitowoc marina for a week so that we could get some lessons on the new boat and the systems before we start the delivery cruise. A logical route for the delivery cruise would be crossing Lake Michigan from Manitowoc to Manistee on day one. I'm 90% super excited about that, 10% terrified.

Terrified might be too strong . . . check the forecast and pick your days and all that. Still - I've seen Lake Michigan when it's angry. It can turn from Bruce Banner to the Incredible Hulk in a pretty short amount of time.

Let's just say there's a healthy respect.

Every time I sail over a Great Lakes shipwreck I remind myself that the captain of that ship was a professional.

 

[Tally Ho]

Yes, pick your weather window carefully!

When I bought my first ever sailboat, I needed to get it from Milwaukee to East Chicago, IN. We picked Easter weekend because my kid at Notre Dame had a long weekend off school and wanted to help. He and I had a 3-day class under our belts and my other son had never stepped foot on a sailboat. And we had not even seen this boat with the mast up before the day we took delivery!

It was raining / sleeting as we loaded food and gear on board. My wife kept asking if this was a good idea, and even the marina broker questioned us going out….should have been a clue

As we made our way out of the marina, and past the breakwall, I knew why they were asking…20-30 knot winds blowing across the lake, 6-8 foot seas, cold, and wet. Had our little Yanmar not kept purring along, we certainly would have washed on shore somewhere.

When my wife left to make the 2 hour drive home, she said “ I better get a text or call every hour…or I am calling the coast guard.
After 2 hours, she got a text that said “Cold, sick, alive”. We were all sick as dogs, soaked through and Ready to be off the water

We miraculously made it to Winthrop Harbor on the Wisc/Ill border and got a slip for the night. We ate at the restaurant (Ana ing how quickly you can recover from motion sickness) and slept on the boat. Next day was cold, but clear and the winds shifted from east to west. Still blowing like crazy, but 2 foot seas and a decent trip down past Chicago and on to Indiana.

In retrospect, I knew nothing about sailing on Lake Michigan, knew nothing about my new boat, and consider myself very lucky that nothing went horribly wrong. I have spent the last 15 years trying to make myself a better sailor.

Have fun, but be prepared and try your best to get a good weather window.

Greg

 

[Foswick]

I'm 90% super excited about that, 10% terrified.

I think that is a good ratio.

 

[john6206]

@Tally Ho

Thanks Greg

 

[dLj]

A healthy respect for Michigan is not a bad thing.

As with ocean sailing - do not sail to a schedule. Very hard to do for working folks that only have X days... But you will figure it out...

Enjoy! And congratulations!

dj

 

[Foswick]

In aviation, the saying is, "All takeoffs are optional. All landings are mandatory." Every time I ignored that, I have regretted it, except maybe as a learning experience.