Hi. I'm planning to buy a used Cat 30 within the next 4-8 months or so. Is it possible to get one in good shape that is between 10-20 years old and between $20,000 and $30,000 without having to put in thousands more after the purchase (since this is my first boat I really don't want one that needs a lot of work and am wondering if it's really possible to find one this old in good to excellent condition)? Any advice on buying? I'm planning to sail around San Diego and only as far away as the Channel islands. Thanks in advance!
Buying first boat. Advice?
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Yes. Good plan. The Catalina 30 is a great boat (I owned one for 7 years). That's why there are so many of them. You asked for some advice. Here are some thoughts. Find someone who knows about Catalina 30s to help you look. There are a lot of bad buys out there. When you finally find a good one, in your price range, have a surveyor look at it very throughly. Take some time picking out a surveyor. Ask around for someone who communicates well and has a stellar reputation. Lots of people find the boat first, then use a surveyor recommended by the broker or seller. You can see the potential conflict of interest right? Spend the money for an engine survey - that usually requires a second person. Again, take your time to pick the right person. By the way, no matter how good the boat, expect to spend a lot of time going through all the mechanical systems after you buy the boat. I always end up spending money after I buy a boat, because there are always things that need attention. You may also find this to be the case. Good luck to ya!
Paul, Mark III's (1995 and newer) are generally going in the 40's and 50's.
You can find Mark II's in your price range. The most noticeable differences between the Mark II's and Mark III's are the open transom, which makes the Mark III's look newer or more modern. But there are a number of small design differences. The Mark III cockpit has wider coamings for more comfortable seating outboard on a heel and it has built in stern rail seats. The open transom also makes the cockpit a little roomier. I think the Mark III is also when Catalina eliminated the teak exterior trim. Just to confuse the matter I think the actual conversion to open transom was mid-1994 so there are a few late Mark II's with the open transom.
The galley counters are molded fiberglass and the galley has a bit more storage space on the Mark III. There are a number of other small upgrades you can find at www.catalina30.com.
That's the general rule on pricing. But in this market you may find a deal on a Mark III that will bring it into your price range.
In boats of this age the trick is to find one that was well cared for. You'll have ongoing maintenance and upgrade costs with any boat, but a well cared for C30 of this vintage shouldn't kill you.
And while a Mark II is less money you're not "settling". Both boats sail the same, have the same rig, same roomy interior and same power train. And I know some people prefer a traditional transom. It's all about finding the boat that's right for you.
You can find Mark II's in your price range. The most noticeable differences between the Mark II's and Mark III's are the open transom, which makes the Mark III's look newer or more modern. But there are a number of small design differences. The Mark III cockpit has wider coamings for more comfortable seating outboard on a heel and it has built in stern rail seats. The open transom also makes the cockpit a little roomier. I think the Mark III is also when Catalina eliminated the teak exterior trim. Just to confuse the matter I think the actual conversion to open transom was mid-1994 so there are a few late Mark II's with the open transom.
The galley counters are molded fiberglass and the galley has a bit more storage space on the Mark III. There are a number of other small upgrades you can find at www.catalina30.com.
That's the general rule on pricing. But in this market you may find a deal on a Mark III that will bring it into your price range.
In boats of this age the trick is to find one that was well cared for. You'll have ongoing maintenance and upgrade costs with any boat, but a well cared for C30 of this vintage shouldn't kill you.
And while a Mark II is less money you're not "settling". Both boats sail the same, have the same rig, same roomy interior and same power train. And I know some people prefer a traditional transom. It's all about finding the boat that's right for you.
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Before you hire a surveyor which is expensive, I recommend purchasing the book "Buying & Inspecting the Aging Sailboat" by Don Casey, which is an excellent guide to follow when first inspecting the potential prospect C 30. Read our C 30 forum & older posts will show you reoccurring themes: compression post rot at the base of the mast post. Corroding chain plate & keel bolt connections, rot occurring in the plywood sandwiched between the keel & keel bolts, & associated Catalina smile cracks at the hull to keel joint that are directly associated with the plywood bilge plate rot. These are problems specific to the C 30 design flaws, but are not unique to Catalina boats.
The C-30 is a very durable & forgiving design & has stood the test of time. But like any production coastal cruiser, she has her limitations. Generally the older the vintage, the more problems you will have associated with natural deterioration from age & lack of regular maintenance. That said, I would buy an older C 30 that was well maintained, over a newer C 30 that has been neglected. There are so many things to consider:
post 1982 boats will generally have more reliable Universal diesel engines, stainless steel keel bolts & upgraded chain plate connections. Only the newest C 30's do not have the wooden compression post block at the base of the mast that is prone to wet rot from bilge water exposure. Newer boats will have improved wiring harness & electrical panels. Shop around, there are a lot of em out there (over 7,000!) since they are the most popular 30 footer ever built. The pluses are they are very beamy, roomy, forgiving under sail & have a stout solid glass hull & heavy cored deck structure.
Watch out for wet rot deck core & delamination (found by sounding the deck with a rubber mallet), worn out sails that costs thousands to replace, seized turnbuckles in the standing rigging, original wooden spreaders that rot over time, excessive play in the rudder, & avoid any original gate valves at the through hulls, etc.
Good luck & enjoy the hunt, my favorite past time. Cheers.
The C-30 is a very durable & forgiving design & has stood the test of time. But like any production coastal cruiser, she has her limitations. Generally the older the vintage, the more problems you will have associated with natural deterioration from age & lack of regular maintenance. That said, I would buy an older C 30 that was well maintained, over a newer C 30 that has been neglected. There are so many things to consider:
post 1982 boats will generally have more reliable Universal diesel engines, stainless steel keel bolts & upgraded chain plate connections. Only the newest C 30's do not have the wooden compression post block at the base of the mast that is prone to wet rot from bilge water exposure. Newer boats will have improved wiring harness & electrical panels. Shop around, there are a lot of em out there (over 7,000!) since they are the most popular 30 footer ever built. The pluses are they are very beamy, roomy, forgiving under sail & have a stout solid glass hull & heavy cored deck structure.
Watch out for wet rot deck core & delamination (found by sounding the deck with a rubber mallet), worn out sails that costs thousands to replace, seized turnbuckles in the standing rigging, original wooden spreaders that rot over time, excessive play in the rudder, & avoid any original gate valves at the through hulls, etc.
Good luck & enjoy the hunt, my favorite past time. Cheers.
first, i have a 91 with an open stern.
second, if you plan on getting a loan, a survey will surely be needed, so forget savng money on no survey.
third, there were a number of significant, not small, changes in the boats by the time catalina opened the stern.
good luck in your hunt.
second, if you plan on getting a loan, a survey will surely be needed, so forget savng money on no survey.
third, there were a number of significant, not small, changes in the boats by the time catalina opened the stern.
good luck in your hunt.
Morty,
I don't think J was suggesting he didn't need a survey but there are steps you can do before hiring a surveyor that could weed out potential problem boats. His suggestion is sound. There was a member named Sailingdog that was an asset to this site but no longer visits. He posted a blog on buying a boat:
http://blog.dankim.com/2010/10/13/buying-a-boat/
http://blog.dankim.com/2010/08/18/boat-inspection-trip-tips/
It's worth reading but it could be a little overwhelming to the first time buyer.
I think what Jim was trying to say is the MKIII's post 94 have the sugar scoop transom. Where the earlier 90's had a door.
Best way is to look at everything in your price range, do a little homework and then when you narrow your selections to the best boat for the money have it surveyed.
http://www.marinesurvey.org/index.html
I don't think J was suggesting he didn't need a survey but there are steps you can do before hiring a surveyor that could weed out potential problem boats. His suggestion is sound. There was a member named Sailingdog that was an asset to this site but no longer visits. He posted a blog on buying a boat:
http://blog.dankim.com/2010/10/13/buying-a-boat/
http://blog.dankim.com/2010/08/18/boat-inspection-trip-tips/
It's worth reading but it could be a little overwhelming to the first time buyer.
I think what Jim was trying to say is the MKIII's post 94 have the sugar scoop transom. Where the earlier 90's had a door.
Best way is to look at everything in your price range, do a little homework and then when you narrow your selections to the best boat for the money have it surveyed.
http://www.marinesurvey.org/index.html
We have an '88 mark II that we bought in '06 and I'd buy it again tomorrow over friends newer ones. Love everything about it, particularly the teak cabin for its warm and beautiful tones in the evenings.
Look until you find the one that makes your heart sing, it will happen. Gotta kiss lots of frogs as they say!
Look until you find the one that makes your heart sing, it will happen. Gotta kiss lots of frogs as they say!
Wow, thanks a TON guys. Lots of great information here. I'm definitely going to read a few books so that I can learn a bit about evaluating a boat myself and disregard ones that have major problems. But I definitely plan on spending the money on a surveyor when I find a boat I like that seems in good condition.
Can anyone suggest a good surveyor in the San Diego and/or Los Angeles area?
Can anyone suggest a good surveyor in the San Diego and/or Los Angeles area?
Thanks Bob. I try to give sound advice & let sailors know that they can do a little homework, read up & perform a basic inspection themselves when buying a prospective boat. It helps to weed out the bad ones & focus an eventual expensive survey for the right boat, & not waste your money.
But many surveyors do not even thoroughly inspect the engine or perform a simple compression test to evaluate the health of the engine. I've bought a lot of gems in the rough, and have never hired a surveyor. I feel that the specific professional inspection by a Pro. rigger going up the mast & a diesel marine mechanic can give you much more specific info. regarding condition of the engine, rig, etc.
jim, it is my experience - a good one - that when you find a boat that looks very good, it's probably best to write a check on the spot and hire a surveyor immediatley, before some else does. there aren't lots of excellent boats out there.
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